[jungledrums]

It's not double standards.

His age is irrelevant because he's somehow in his peak still and that is a credit to him.

Yeah, exactly.

I agree it is an achievement.

My point is that many posters have gone from saying age is irrelevant, he's at his peak, to saying "wow can't believe he's doing this at 35."

Just a bit of double standards in my opinion. It's either relevant or its not. Can't be both depending on how he performs.

I don't think people are saying "can't believe he's doing this at 35". This may seem wordy, but bare with me: Messi banging in 40+ a year is expected. Just because it's expected, doesn't make it any less impressive. The same is true for Usain Bolt sprinting 100m under 10 seconds: expected, yet impressive nonetheless. So people have a different outlook regarding Ibra: he's 35, yet he's proven himself a specimen still at this age, and as such his age is irrelevant in the sense that it's a potential barometer of his future performances. So expectations are high. On the other hand, we can't discount the achievement of maintaining such an elite level for so long. Dunno if that made an ounce of sense, but hopefully my overriding point comes through.

 

[unitedforeveral]

Zlatan is THE KING! that kind of attitude does not come from bad or average footballer. He's just so good on the ball and still has so many tricks up his socks (sleeve). The man just oozes confidence. He plays more fluently when the rest of the team pass and move. I have no doubts or ever did that Zlatan can do wonders to the premier league. His ability to slide the ball left, right and centre is beautiful to watch and hard for the opponents. If you ever think Zlatan is not fit in ANY team or league, you have to know more about him.

 

[Stacks]

It's not double standards.

His age is irrelevant because he's somehow in his peak still and that is a credit to him.

If he was at his peak he would still be playing and scoring for Sweden. He also had more pace/athleticism back in Italy. I saw him outpace Kuffour once

 

[Pexbo]

If he was at his peak he would still be playing and scoring for Sweden. He also had more pace/athleticism back in Italy. I saw him outpace Kuffour once

So he's not in his physical peak. He's found a balance between brain and body though.

 

[Stacks]

Zlatan is THE KING! that kind of attitude does not come from bad or average footballer. He's just so good on the ball and still has so many tricks up his socks (sleeve). The man just oozes confidence. He plays more fluently when the rest of the team pass and move. I have no doubts or ever did that Zlatan can do wonders to the premier league. His ability to slide the ball left, right and centre is beautiful to watch and hard for the opponents. If you ever think Zlatan is not fit in ANY team or league, you have to know more about him.

Barcelona. City

 

[NinjaFletch]

If he was at his peak he would still be playing and scoring for Sweden. He also had more pace/athleticism back in Italy. I saw him outpace Kuffour once

You're making it sound like he's been dropped!

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If he was at his peak he would still be playing and scoring for Sweden. He also had more pace/athleticism back in Italy. I saw him outpace Kuffour once

Well that makes no sense considering playing for United in the PL is miles harder than playing for fecking Sweden. He quit Sweden because he'll be nearly 37 by the time the next tournament comes around & had no doubt tired of having to drag their sorry asses to every single tournament*, only to get slated himself when he got there due to the shiteness of their side.

It's like saying Scholes wasn't at his peak after he quit England, it doesn't compute @Stacks.

Although I do agree with you that his physical peak was at Inter, his "combined" peak has certainly been the years after his 30th birthday.

*some context to that, the guy scored 11 goals, second only behind Lewandowski in Euro 2016 qualifying. The chances of Sweden reaching World Cup 2018 are minimal even with Zlatan (I expect France, Holland and possibly even Bulgaria to finish ahead of them), it was the right move from him.

 

[Stacks]

Well that makes no sense considering playing for United in the PL is miles harder than playing for fecking Sweden. He quit Sweden because he'll be nearly 37 by the time the next tournament comes around & had no doubt tired of having to drag their sorry asses to every single tournament, only to get slated himself when he got there due to the shiteness of their side.

It's like saying Scholes wasn't at his peak after he quit England, it doesn't compute @Stacks.

Although I do agree with you that his physical peak was at Inter, his "combined" peak has certainly been the years after his 30th birthday.

retired for different reasons. Scholes retired out of frustration, Zlatan to extend his club playing career. Scholes didn't peak after England retirement, he became a different type of midfielder with less goals. Zlatan is not at his peak, he is just still a capable striker. in 2011–2012 while at Milan 32 serie a games (28) goals and 11 in 8 for Sweden. 2013-14 scored 33 in 26 league games and 10 champions league goals, all whilst playing for Sweden also.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

retired for different reasons. Scholes retired out of frustration, Zlatan to extend his club playing career. Scholes didn't peak after England retirement, he became a different type of midfielder with less goals. Zlatan is not at his peak, he is just still a capable striker. in 2011–2012 while at Milan 32 serie a games (28) goals and 11 in 8 for Sweden. 2013-14 scored 33 in 26 league games and 10 champions league goals, all whilst playing for Sweden also.

And just last season Zlatan scored over 50 goals, whilst playing for Sweden also.... your point?

Scholes peaked in 2004-2008 fwiw, before then he had the Veron year issues and the sharing a role with Nicky Butt problems. Only after retiring from England did he become the player that is rated so highly now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Mourinho made a great point about Zlatan's tally. He's only scored one penalty.

Knock penalties off the total of all the PL's top-scorers and Ibra would be miles out in front.

 

[Stacks]

And just last season Zlatan scored over 50 goals, whilst playing for Sweden also.... your point?

Scholes peaked in 2004-2008 fwiw, before then he had the Veron year issues and the sharing a role with Nicky Butt problems. Only after retiring from England did he become the player that is rated so highly now.

Serie A is more competitive than League 1.

 

[RedMaestro]

Well is it really such a surprise that a player at the age of 35 isn't at his peak? Especially for someone who's played basically every game for 90+ minutes both in club and NT - if you just count his career from the Ajax period and forward that is 16 years!

 

[Stacks]

Well is it really such a surprise that a player at the age of 35 isn't at his peak? Especially for someone who's played basically every game for 90+ minutes both in club and NT - if you just count his career from the Ajax period and forward that is 16 years!

people are arguing he is at his peak based on the fact that he has exceeded expectations and performed well in the premier league at 35

 

[RedMaestro]

people are arguing he is at his peak based on the fact that he has exceeded expectations and performed well in the premier league at 35

Basing the quality of a player is a bit hard. But a player will generally lose speed and gain the ability to make faster decisions due to experience. This is something that's "happened" to Ibra as well. He may have been faster and stronger 8-10 years ago but that doesn't necessarily mean he was a better player. In my opinion, he's become a smarter player, evaluating better when he should make certain moves on the field, runs, passes, shots etc. But it's clear that if he would have had his speed from the earlier period, he would more or less have "dominated" the PL.

But the most important key to Ibra's success is his hunger for the game. He always wants to win and this is something "old" players usually lose. But he's still "hungry" and takes everything seriously, even training. Read today that Lingard claimed that Ibra is the biggest moaner in the team - when they fail to win.

 

[Janson]

He's been great, but also shares some blame for poor finishing. Something too keep in mind is while Zlatan has scored 15 in the PL, he's also missed 12 big chances. The highest in the league. For comparison strikers with similar goals scored Diego Costa, Lukaku and Harry Kane have missed roughly half of that amount 6. The reason why the argument against Zlatan holds some merit is that the whole team is forced to play through him, and relies on him to score most the chances. When the player on your team with the best scoring chances misses roughly 45% of them, its not a surprise we struggle to score. So i think there is something to be said about how Zlatan's inefficiency at converting chances is hurting the team, while individually he's been performing great. Something a manager should look into. I'd try to create more balance with scoring opportunities.

He isn't a clinical striker though, so it's not really surprising he's missed more than the other top strikers in the league. But you have to take that, given everything else he brings to the game.

His creativity and playmaking(amongst other things) coupled with his scoring ability is what makes him the great player that he is. All the chances he created for others easily makes up for his misses. He should comfortably be on 10+ assists only in the league by now.

 

[Kamprad]

Zlatan has never been a number 9 that stays in the box and only score goals. He can do that too but there will always be moments when he drops to be a part of the build up. At least two of the three offensive players behind him need to run past him in to the box or corners a lot more during the games.

 

[Dobbs]

Yeah, exactly.

I don't think people are saying "can't believe he's doing this at 35". This may seem wordy, but bare with me: Messi banging in 40+ a year is expected. Just because it's expected, doesn't make it any less impressive. The same is true for Usain Bolt sprinting 100m under 10 seconds: expected, yet impressive nonetheless. So people have a different outlook regarding Ibra: he's 35, yet he's proven himself a specimen still at this age, and as such his age is irrelevant in the sense that it's a potential barometer of his future performances. So expectations are high. On the other hand, we can't discount the achievement of maintaining such an elite level for so long. Dunno if that made an ounce of sense, but hopefully my overriding point comes through.

Perfectly worded, I get what you're saying.

I just think before he played anybody who mentioned his age was told to pipe down. Now he's done well probably the same posters are bringing it up.

Personally I was never that bothered about age in the playing sense, but I wanted us to start building long term. It'll be interesting to see what Mourinho does in the summer. What impact qualifying or not for the ECL will have on Ibra.

 

[Dobbs]

Zlatan has never been a number 9 that stays in the box and only score goals. He can do that too but there will always be moments when he drops to be a part of the build up. At least two of the three offensive players behind him need to run past him in to the box or corners a lot more during the games.

Not at United. I think it's clear he's at this best in and around the penalty area. I still think we need to get it into his feet more in those areas.

 

[Kamprad]

Not at United. I think it's clear he's at this best in and around the penalty area. I still think we need to get it into his feet more in those areas.

Well, if the team plays well he doesn't need to drop that low. But he still drops. I don't mind that because he has a better vision and is a better playmaker than Pogba and Mata. He use to be at least. Agree he still need to step up and be a better playmaker than he has in United. But you don't buy a Zlatan(or get him for free) and play him like Andy Carroll. You just simply don't.

 

[Grunge]

Let's get this straight; Ibra is by no means "at his peak"; at least not in terms of physical condition & therefore not in terms of his pace or quickness over a short burst. That time probably came a few years ago prior to his time at PSG. Age has definitely slowed him down.

Now for some "howevers" - One cannot argue with his scoring prowess this season, regardless of his current physical condition he consistent;y finds the net.
- For a man who's been on the planet 35 years he appears to be as fit as many professional footballers much younger then he.
- He may well be at his "peak" in terms of nous or putting his experience to good use; though one could argue that will continue to peak with age?
- His drive to succeed still seems to be almost OTT, is that peaking? Arguable, but he might have been even hungrier when younger?

Are we then pleasantly surprised by his performance? 'course we are!
I was expecting him to be very good just based on watching him perform over the past few years regardless of who he played for.
I expected him to be an "impact player" playing for the first 60 minutes and being subbed by our youngsters or even coming on after 60 minutes to face tired teams
I expected we would need Martial & Rashford far more than we have - but believe they will both learn tons from Ibra's example and will consistently deliver in time

The reality is that he's "smart" enough to last 90 minutes. That imho is remarkable!

He may not have pace, but certainly knows how to pace himself.

So no, he's not "at his peak" and much as I would have loved him to have joined us years ago, we have him now and that makes me very happy.

 

[Dobbs]

Well, if the team plays well he doesn't need to drop that low. But he still drops. I don't mind that because he has a better vision and is a better playmaker than Pogba and Mata. He use to be at least. Agree he still need to step up and be a better playmaker than he has in United. But you don't buy a Zlatan(or get him for free) and play him like Andy Carroll. You just simply don't.

I don't think anybody says you should. I haven't anyway.

 

[BlueCelery]

Mourinho made a great point about Zlatan's tally. He's only scored one penalty.

Knock penalties off the total of all the PL's top-scorers and Ibra would be miles out in front.

It's funny you say that since it's not actually true believe it or not.

Between the 6 Top scorers in the League (Zlatan, Costa, Sanchez, Lukaku, Kane, Defoe) only 2 are penalty merchants (Defoe & Kane). The 1st (Lukaku) & 2nd (Zlatan, DC, Sanchez) top scorers in the League have only scored 2 penalties this season between themselves.

The majority of them either aren't first choice on penalty duties or aren't at clubs that get them every other week like Liverpool & Tottenham.

 

[Footyislife]

He isn't a clinical striker though, so it's not really surprising he's missed more than the other top strikers in the league. But you have to take that, given everything else he brings to the game.

His creativity and playmaking(amongst other things) coupled with his scoring ability is what makes him the great player that he is. All the chances he created for others easily makes up for his misses. He should comfortably be on 10+ assists only in the league by now.

I agree. He's an excellent well rounded striker. Just think we really on him too much to score goals and his inefficiency hurts us.

 

[MichaelRed]

Nice comp of his season so far

Half Zlatan being awesome, half Rashford, Mata, Lingard & Pogba showing us they couldn't score to save their lives.

 

[MagooDad]

Zlatan is by no means at his peak. If we would have Zlatan anno 2007-2009 in Inter we would be fighting for the title along Chelsea at the moment.

He was arguably the best center forward in the world during this time and was either alone (08/09) or together with Maicon (07/08) the reason Inter won the Scudettos.

And he should only be measured based on his game, not based on his game as compared to his age. But fact still stands that we couldn't probably get another striker last season that has his quality, and more importantly proof of quality. We could have gambled with Lacazette or Vardy, but that could have gone either way. Zlatan is a proven concept that still at 35 is one of the top-10 center forwards in the world.

 

[hn4manunited]

Zlatan is by no means at his peak. If we would have Zlatan anno 2007-2009 in Inter we would be fighting for the title along Chelsea at the moment.

He was arguably the best center forward in the world during this time and was either alone (08/09) or together with Maicon (07/08) the reason Inter won the Scudettos.

And he should only be measured based on his game, not based on his game as compared to his age. But fact still stands that we couldn't probably get another striker last season that has his quality, and more importantly proof of quality. We could have gambled with Lacazette or Vardy, but that could have gone either way. Zlatan is a proven concept that still at 35 is one of the top-10 center forwards in the world.

The reason why we signed Zlatan is because he is a known quantity to Jose and as Jose shared, he had a little time to think about the project and what United needed immediately.

 

[Summit]

The reason why we signed Zlatan is because he is a known quantity to Jose and as Jose shared, he had a little time to think about the project and what United needed immediately.

Little time? Did José say that?

 

[Stacks]

He isn't a clinical striker though, so it's not really surprising he's missed more than the other top strikers in the league. But you have to take that, given everything else he brings to the game.

His creativity and playmaking(amongst other things) coupled with his scoring ability is what makes him the great player that he is. All the chances he created for others easily makes up for his misses. He should comfortably be on 10+ assists only in the league by now.

simply not true. according to Squawka, Zlatan has created 37 chances and bagged 3 assists. Alexis has created 60 chances and bagged 8 assists. Lukaku has created 33 chances and has 4 assists. why is it only Zlatan should have his chances converted? All strikers will create as they are furthest forward.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

simply not true. according to Squawka, Zlatan has created 37 chances and bagged 3 assists. Alexis has created 60 chances and bagged 8 assists. Lukaku has created 33 chances and has 4 assists. why is it only Zlatan should have his chances converted? All strikers will create as they are furthest forward.

Because stats tell you diddly squat about the quality of those chances, the vid above tells you all you need to know about how many assists "Zlatan" should be on.

 

[Stacks]

Because stats tell you diddly squat about the quality of those chances, the vid above tells you all you need to know about how many assists "Zlatan" should be on.

Well unless you are watching the chances of the other strikers, it is pure biased to suggest that Zlatan is the top playmaking forward and should be leading the assist boards

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well unless you are watching the chances of the other strikers, it is pure biased to suggest that Zlatan is the top playmaking forward and should be leading the assist boards

@Stacks, read the post again, he never said such a thing.

 

[Stacks]

@Stacks, read the post again, he never said such a thing.

He said he should be on 10 assists which automatically puts him there

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He said he should be on 10 assists which automatically puts him there

He said nothing about Sanchez or Lukaku though and nothing about him being the top assist man in the league so you've added 2+2 and come up with 9 in your argument.

 

[The United]

It's funny you say that since it's not actually true believe it or not.

Between the 6 Top scorers in the League (Zlatan, Costa, Sanchez, Lukaku, Kane, Defoe) only 2 are penalty merchants (Defoe & Kane). The 1st (Lukaku) & 2nd (Zlatan, DC, Sanchez) top scorers in the League have only scored 2 penalties this season between themselves.

The majority of them either aren't first choice on penalty duties or aren't at clubs that get them every other week like Liverpool & Tottenham.

Interesting.

 

[sincher]

Lukaku would score a lot of goals for us for many years and help us win stuff.

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

Just watching his 15 League goals posted by the United's official facebook a/c. Still can't believe we are actually criticizing him. Sure, he could and should have scored more at the initial stages. But still he is in the reckoning for top scorer award.

The Balkan King of Sweden

 

[SuperiorXI]

Phenomenal striker and our best player this season, ratings on the caf are harsh. I would say he is more in the 7.8-8 region.

 

[RedMaestro]

Phenomenal striker and our best player this season, ratings on the caf are harsh. I would say he is more in the 7.8-8 region.

Yes, I agree. Maybe not 8 but Ibra together with Valencia should have the highest ratings this season.

 

[Janson]

simply not true. according to Squawka, Zlatan has created 37 chances and bagged 3 assists. Alexis has created 60 chances and bagged 8 assists. Lukaku has created 33 chances and has 4 assists. why is it only Zlatan should have his chances converted? All strikers will create as they are furthest forward.

I'm not qualified to interprete those stats since I haven't watched all their games and it's probable that neither have you. I have watched Zlatan and I think he has created mostly high quality chances. The difference in difficulty and the degree of how valuable the chances actually are is pretty much impossible to measure. You have to see for yourself what actually happened.

Most of Sanchez assists come from corners and crosses, from what I've seen. Half of his assists in 14/15 were from corners. He doesn't even come close to Zlatan in terms of vision. Arsenal also play a more attacking game.

From the four assists Lukaku has had, one where he only passed to a player like two feet away from him who then went on to dribble half the team before he scored. Another one, it bounces of him to another player who scores, similiar to Rooneys when it hit him in the head.

I didn't say only Zlatan should have his chances converted. Maybe other teams have similiar issues, I don't know. All I'm saying is that Zlatan should have more assists by now.

 

[dirkey]

Already coming way too deep far too often. No-one up front.