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I agree with almost everything you say here. Zlatans misses have been a problem but the big problem is no one else contributing. The discussion has been about the shots per goal and chances created stats MadMike posted. Neither him nor you have provided any analasys to show that it really backs up the opinion that Ibra and Pogba are the main culprits. Have you considered that maybe the others aren't taking enough shots or getting themselves in a position to score? You also can't use a per minute stat to compare these two to the much inferior players around them. There's a reason why they're consistent starters and the other attackers aren't. It's like comparing Schweinsteigers one game to Pogba and saying look he has a one goal per game ratio, he must be much more effective than Pogba.
We don't need to play like that, and I don't think we will under Mourinho. Me myself would much prefer a player in Zlatans mold to replace him. I think he will be looking to build around Ibra in the summer and then replace him like for like when he leaves.
Setting up the excuses already.
I understand where you're coming from, and your position is reasonable. The question is reasonable.
That's fine. Any system is alright with me as long as we win & dominate game. If Mourinho will continue with this he has to have a reliable scoring midfield because both Pogba and Herrera contributed very little in this area. You can't sit and hope Pogba will immensely improves his scoring next season. And between these two it will be Herrera who get sacrificed.
Doesn't matter if he saw it or not, just that he did not take action.
No, I expect goals from whoever will play instead of him. Simple really. Also notion that our gameplan is set to accommodate him isn't really true.
Well considering Ibra takes more shots than anyone else it's no wonder he has more missed chances. How many shots have the other players taken. Whats the "conversion rate" for this? To my knowledge, Rooney and Lingard hasn't taken that many shots and if that's the case, 3 missed chances is also a lot.
I think this has been posted like 17 times.
It's built around him, yes but that doesn't mean we're intentionally only focusing on getting him chances alone. The attack being built around him is setup to also get the most out of the other attackers, hence having runners to run in behind for Ibra to setup. Problem is they aren't doing it. Ibra is the one making the intelligent runs, and Pogba immeadialety spots them, wheres others don't, especially Martial is terrible at it.
I think Pogba will improve, at least I believe he will improve his scoring. His creativity is immense and he and Ibra are no doubt the most important players in this team. I think only Pogba, Zlatan and Mikhi are safe to secure a place in the eleven next year excluding defenders.
This is also interesting:
Why even bother with the stats mate? Anyone sensible knows they can be turned and twisted to suit ones argument. Like I said, Zlatan missing alot of chances is a problem, but the bigger problem is no one else contributing. And that's exactly what Mourinho will try to rectify in the summer.
Totally agree, but since some are trying to make him the "culprit" it's good to show that that there's more than meets the eye.
Cudos to you for applying yourself to dig up the stats but shots/conversion rate stats have been posted many times and discussed extensively. The problem is, people always interprete them in a way to suit their argument and we just go round and round. This happens after every bad game he has.
Mourinho obviously rates Ibrahimovic highly or else he wouldn't have said this last week:
So he'll improve other positions before he'll even think about replacing Ibra. People also forget that there aren't many strikers of the Ibra type (which Mourinho likes) so he won't replace him even if he wanted to at the moment.
That's how it usually looks for top players, they take a lot of shots. And the more shots you take it becomes more difficult to keep a good conversion rate, since every shot you take has a much lower chance of going in than not.
Yeah, I know. Do they really think any player in the world can score i.e. 80 goals per season, which is basically what they want Ibra to do because he takes a lot of shots?
I don't understand some people's reasoning either, it's really is strange.
That's true. Martial form this season has dropped quite a bit, and no doubt plays a part in where we are today.
That's true too. The reason I raised this example is just to show the answer to the question you raised "Did everyone else taking enough chances?" will never be clear cut. It will be based on assumption and opinion, ifs and buts. What clear cut is stat because it's from what happened. It shows he had the worst conversion rate of the team by a mile. It shows in number. It's clear, so we can comment on.
This is only big chances. I believe its only one on one and open goals that are considered as big chances.
sigh.. no surprise with the news. hopefully other players can step up and replace Zlatan to score goals in those three matches.
I think you misspelled, underrated is what you mean...
Dude you can bend at twist it all you like but it won't change the fact that he's been wasteful as fek. He's missed more clear cut chances than anyone else in EPL and that he's taken more shots than anyone else, sure I'm not denying he's scored against Zorya, Fayenoord, St. Etienne, Northampton, Reading and West Ham without their key players in league Cup.
Actually it is and the fact that he's got 3 or more shots on goal per match more than anyone else, plus the clear cut chances he's missed tells that our team is primarily providing for him. That and the fact he's never subbed shows there's no backup plan and our game is designed to suit him.
It's blatantly going to be Rooney who will start up front instead of Ibra, sadly.
I think not having Martial in last season form has actually been the main problem. At the start of the season the front three Martial/Ibra/Mikhi looked deadly on paper, but sadly it didn't turn out that way.
The problem with this is that people interprete the stats in different ways. The stats in question can mean everything in between Zlatan missing so many chances is our main problem to Zlatan is the only one getting in position to get these chances while the others aren't, people either use the stats to rationalise their agenda or simply misinterprete them.
I don't see anything wrong with it, it would be the most sensible decision. We need some leadership and direction in Ibras absence and Rooney is the man for that.
Great analysis.
I do see a lot wrong with it. People have been complaining about Ibra coming deep at times etc, and not busting his gut to get into the box (and even still being clear and away our top scorer). So remember, we'll now have Rooney doing that, with less ability to make things happen when he gets on the ball, and even less in terms of output with regard to goals.
Martial aside the majority of the attack is sufficiently experienced I'd say to not need Rooney. And Rooney's experience doesn't really cover for his drawbacks. I thought Bournemouth was actually a really good showcase of the good and bad of Rooney. When the game was really open he was decent and moved the ball in to space well enough. Once it got tighter he struggled. Personally can't see many teams being as open as Bournemouth were.
I have no idea who he will start really, it could be Rashford as well since he replaced Ibra vs Arsenal I think. I'm not saying Rooney is better than the other options but like I said, we need the leadership and in my personal opinion, he's not any worse than Martial or Rashford form wise. I actually thought he had a great game vs Bournemouth.
I didn't actually see the Bournemouth game so can't comment on that. If so .. I guess that's good. I would personally love to see Rooney find his form again and prove us all wrong - he's given so much to the club in his time. I just don't see it. Hence why I'd like to see Rashford in there, he's the future, he needs the game time.
