evra
Full Member
Good lad Xavi, the more people that speak out against this travesty the better.
We wouldn't have conceded 2 goals until the end of game, I'm actually fairly confident about that. Madrid might have got an equaliser but it'd have been tough for them anyway and we could well score another on a counter.We were pretty comfortable until Nani was wrongly sent off, obviously not guaranteed progression but the ref played a huge part in the outcome.
Also, has he received death threats? The only thing I can find is the Turkish FA denying this.Yes I'm absolutely positive he has really enjoyed receiving death threats from boneheaded United "fans." At the end of the day he has been backed by his peers and his bosses....he will rightly feel justified.
You are channelling your frustration in a very shallow way. The referee didn't cost us the game if that is your implication.
We were 1-0 up....then in the space of 4 minutes we conceded two goals. It was poor defending, profligate finishing, mixed with superb football from Real Madrid that cost us the game.....as hard as that is to swallow it's the reality.Of course he cost us the game. We were in front and in control of the tie before he decided to change it for good with a sending off.
I provided one a few posts back. Not sure anyone said it happens on a regular basis?Nani was trying to control the ball and they crashed into each other, it was painful for Arbeloa and reckless by Nani to some extent but it does never merit a red card. It was an accident and you don't send people off for stuff like this and no, it doesn't happen on a regular basis - I honestly cannot remember any other red card in the same mould. It was a shocking decision full stop.
Speculation as always....apparently Twitter was the source of the threats...no surprises there.Also, has he received death threats? The only thing I can find is the Turkish FA denying this.
I don't think he's playing.Are you playing stupid?
That 10 minute spell wouldn't have happened if the ref hadn't put us down to ten men. We probably could have reacted better, though not much we could do about Modric's strike (who also wouldn't have necessarily been on the pitch at that point without the ref's balls up).We were 1-0 up....then in the space of 4 minutes we conceded two goals. It was poor defending, profligate finishing, mixed with superb football from Real Madrid that cost us the game.....as hard as that is to swallow it's the reality.
Nani being sent off does not automatically equate to losing the game. If we had gone on to win the match 1-0 I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find many posters uttering....
"well I'm proper fecked off with the referee he could have cost us big time tonight. Can't enjoy this victory with that thought"
More like...
"absolutely fantastic performance from the team...particularly playing for half an hour with ten men!"
United didn't go through for a few reasons, the decision being one of them, albeit apparently the defining one.
These kind of comments make my blood boil! It doesnt make sense and just idiotic.We were 1-0 up....then in the space of 4 minutes we conceded two goals. It was poor defending, profligate finishing, mixed with superb football from Real Madrid that cost us the game.....as hard as that is to swallow it's the reality.
Nani being sent off does not automatically equate to losing the game. If we had gone on to win the match 1-0 I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find many posters uttering....
"well I'm proper fecked off with the referee he could have cost us big time tonight. Can't enjoy this victory with that thought"
More like...
"absolutely fantastic performance from the team...particularly playing for half an hour with ten men!"
United didn't go through for a few reasons, the decision being one of them, albeit apparently the defining one.
No he didn't control the ball at all. His foot ended up in Arbeloa's chest....who was actually trying to chest the ball down and run onto it.Nani controlled the ball with his foot, in mid air, Arbeloa ran into him and got himself hurt. It wasn't even a yellow, never mind a red. Someone here mentioned 'forced objectivity', I completely agree. Stop trying to make yourself look good and go against the grain.
It was the wrong decision, end of story.
What doesn't make sense?These kind of comments make my blood boil! It doesnt make sense and just idiotic.
boring boring! its synonymous as saying, "I don't think he has the right to kill someone but I understand why he did it". There is no reason why you keep defending the cnut. You said it like it is a league game that doesn't matter in the long run. Well, it's not, and it does matter.I provided one a few posts back. Not sure anyone said it happens on a regular basis?
For the record I have already stated I don't agree with the decision, but I can understand why he was dismissed.
Well, pretty much all of what you said if you need to know! But specifically:What doesn't make sense?
If the red card hadnt cost us the loss, of course no one would be too angry about the red card. If you were being beaten in the course of an attempted robbery, the fact that you haven't been robbed of anything or hurt makes all the difference in your reaction. You don't even call the police. But if you were beaten to half dead and lost all your procession, you had legitimate reason to at least call the police. Got it?!!Nani being sent off does not automatically equate to losing the game. If we had gone on to win the match 1-0 I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find many posters uttering....
This kind of indulgence in pity is what gets me.....so mawkish it is painful to see. We had our chances over the two legs to put the tie out of sight. Van Persie didn't rise to the occassion and missed two gilt-edged chances in Madrid. If we were the better team we should have fecking put the tie to bed before the sending off.If it hadn't been for that sending off we would be looking at the next round right now, make no mistake we were fecking robbed. We outclassed Real, even Mourinho admitted we were the better team, hell we were the better team with ten bloody men. It's heartbreaking that SAF has had another CL opportunity stolen from him by abysmal officiating.
No. Really....no.Well, pretty much all of what you said if you need to know! But specifically:
If the red card hadnt cost us the loss, of course no one would be too angry about the red card. If you were being beaten in the course of an attempted robbery, the fact that you haven't been robbed of anything or hurt makes all the difference in your reaction. You don't even call the police. But if you were beaten to half dead and lost all your procession, you had legitimate reason to at least call the police. Got it?!!
Not sure your analogies are aiding you mate. Move away from them seriously.boring boring! its synonymous as saying, "I don't think he has the right to kill someone but I understand why he did it". There is no reason why you keep defending the cnut. You said it like it is a league game that doesn't matter in the long run. Well, it's not, and it does matter.
Anther idiotic statement! We were against a very good team in a life and death game and playing 11-11 is hard enough. Be reducing to 10 men the battle was not just uphill. You were saying as if we were playing against Liverpool where 10 men are enough to hold on for another 30 mins plus stoppage. If you are not an idiot, you were maybe just arguing for the sake of arguing. if the card was wrong, it's deserved to be condemned. For sure if we have progressed we won't bother to waste the time to discuss because it will look stupid if we do.I do however understand why the decision was made. What I don't agree with is the assumption that we were "robbed" or that it "cost us the game." That is just a cop out in my eyes. The players could not retain their composure in that all important 10minute spell after the card.
I truly couldn't care about looking good mate, I'm really not that superficial deary me.
Again, you were defending him. How did you know he's applying the correctly? He has been sending off 7 English players without sending off the opposition (as pointed out by sir Alex).Not sure your analogies are aiding you mate. Move away from them seriously.
It's simple. The referee...using the laws that govern the game...and his interpretation of the incident....decided Nani endangered another player with his actions. That's all it is.....not hard to understand in the slightest.
I'm not defending him....I've already stated (numerous times) I don't agree with his interpretation of the incident. The magnitude of the game does not make a difference to me, I would hold the same view if it happened while we were 4-0 up away to Wigan.
Anyway you have had your two cents.....if I'm boring you then please....be my guest and retire into the night...I'm off to dream about my gleaming self-righteousne
I wouldn't wade into these discussions without understanding the rules; dangerous play results in a yellow card. The debate, if there is one, is over whether or not Nani used excessive force to win the ball.Nani controlled the ball with his foot, in mid air, Arbeloa ran into him and got himself hurt. It wasn't even a yellow, never mind a red. Someone here mentioned 'forced objectivity', I completely agree. Stop trying to make yourself look good and go against the grain.
It was the wrong decision, end of story.
Everyone understands the logic behind the decision. People aren't sat around watching the incident 100x scratching their heads and thinking "I just dont understand it...maybe from his angle the ref thought it was a handball? Or maybe the ref thought Nani had kung fu kicked someone in the crowd? I'm just completely stumped!"It's simple. The referee...using the laws that govern the game...and his interpretation of the incident....decided Nani endangered another player with his actions. That's all it is.....not hard to understand in the slightest.
We could have put the game to bed but we were more deserving than Madrid, who didn't look like progressing until the red card incident. We were the better team. Even with an unfair handicap for 35 minutes.This kind of indulgence in pity is what gets me.....so mawkish it is painful to see. We had our chances over the two legs to put the tie out of sight. Van Persie didn't rise to the occassion and missed two gilt-edged chances in Madrid. If we were the better team we should have fecking put the tie to bed before the sending off.
We played well but not well enough to progress. Football throws this shit up and you have to deal with it....United tried their best but it wasn't enough.
Massimo Busacca, from Switzerland. Apparently he had a pretty good record before that (hilariously, Rio Ferdinand even praised him just before kick-off as the best ref around), but it was a pretty horrendous decision. At the end of that season, Busacca became head of refereeing development within FIFA...Who was the ref who gave RvP the second yellow card when Arsenal were playing, and managing pretty through that moment, Barcelona? That decision was even worse than this one, but this one ridiculous.
Not necessarily. We did enough to progress before the red card.This kind of indulgence in pity is what gets me.....so mawkish it is painful to see. We had our chances over the two legs to put the tie out of sight. Van Persie didn't rise to the occassion and missed two gilt-edged chances in Madrid. If we were the better team we should have fecking put the tie to bed before the sending off.
We played well but not well enough to progress. Football throws this shit up and you have to deal with it....United tried their best but it wasn't enough.
Exactly we were winning. ie. we were the better team. If we were winning 10-0 there wouldn't be an issues. The fact is we were winning and moments after the red we'd lost the tie.Not necessarily. We did enough to progress before the red card.
What the feck are you on about? We were the better team. We didn't have to put the tie to bed before the sending off because the sending shouldn't have happened. And this isn't how football works. You're only the better side if you put ties to bed prematurely now? What to say about Madrid then? They certainly didn't put the fecking tie to bed until the ref conjured up a red card to their advantage. You're trying so hard to be "objective" that you end up being inexplicably harsh on our performance. Stating we didn't play well enough to progress when we played much better than the team that actually progressed is madness.This kind of indulgence in pity is what gets me.....so mawkish it is painful to see. We had our chances over the two legs to put the tie out of sight. Van Persie didn't rise to the occassion and missed two gilt-edged chances in Madrid. If we were the better team we should have fecking put the tie to bed before the sending off.
We played well but not well enough to progress. Football throws this shit up and you have to deal with it....United tried their best but it wasn't enough.
I wouldn't wade into these discussions without understanding the rules; dangerous play results in a yellow card. The debate, if there is one, is over whether or not Nani used excessive force to win the ball.
There are very less decisions that are not justifiable with some technicality or the other.
A referee can give like 20 penalties many games for pushing and shoving in the box. The van Persie red card against barca was technically justifiable.
The referee could send off Lopez and Arbeloa in the same match against madrid and technically justify it . But then you know a wrong decision is wrong based on set patterns of implementation.
.....................................In my younger days as a manager I acquired a reputation for criticising referees that follows me even though I have mellowed over the years. Regular readers will know I rarely mention officials in the column, and when I do it is often to praise them. However, there are times when you cannot bite your tongue.
I did not see the infamous dismissal of Nani on Tuesday night. When it happened, I was on the touchline at Leicester City. By the time I saw it I was already thinking of Bill Shankly's immortal words about "referees who know the laws but don't know the game". Sir Alex Ferguson had one of those at Old Trafford, and so did I at Leicester, Paul Tierney.
These referees are the ones I call "manufactured". They are often young ones who hardly ever played the game, not even as teenagers, who have been brought up with referees as their tutors and have not received any input from people who have played the game. They know every rule inside out, they know exactly where they should be on the pitch, but problems arise when something happens that you have to have played to understand. Like Nani stretching for a ball in open play and not seeing a player coming in on his blindside.
In every game these manufactured referees will make a decision they honestly believe to be right, but everyone who played – apart from Roy Keane – knows is wrong.
When you suffer a decision like that you almost feel hatred at the injustice of it. I think Sir Alex did the right thing in not going on the television because it takes more than half an hour to calm your thoughts and with reporters being so clever in their questioning you are always likely to say something that gets you into trouble.
In an ideal world we would have ex-players becoming referees but I don't see it happening in my lifetime. The next best thing would be to have somebody on the coaching side who has played the game going through videos with them. Young refs today can so easily be conned by clever professionals.
In the Championship we get the refs on the way up. A couple of years ago there was an influx of quality refs but now we are getting a lot of manufactured robots and there were several managers lamenting the refereeing in midweek.
That's a pretty shit argument. We aren't playing fecking qpr that we can put the tie "out of sight" with such ease. It was always going to be tight. Madrid had their chances in the first leg too with de Gea doing very well.This kind of indulgence in pity is what gets me.....so mawkish it is painful to see. We had our chances over the two legs to put the tie out of sight. Van Persie didn't rise to the occassion and missed two gilt-edged chances in Madrid. If we were the better team we should have fecking put the tie to bed before the sending off.
We played well but not well enough to progress. Football throws this shit up and you have to deal with it....United tried their best but it wasn't enough.
Exactly!! Why on earth some people are not able to understand these simple facts and logics is beyond me.Exactly we were winning. ie. we were the better team. If we were winning 10-0 there wouldn't be an issues. The fact is we were winning and moments after the red we'd lost the tie.
I think the "he's sent off loads of English players before" line of argument is a bit of a red herring. I haven't seen the Gerrard sending off and the Cahill one was never really shown properly in the WCC final, but I couldn't call the Terry red card any kind of injustice and the Balotelli one was also a clear red.Maybe, if it's the same referee who would make the final decision, in this case the Turkish cnut who has sent off legions of English players before.
It's not a bullet proof proposal, but it's a helluva lot better than allowing one man to tell one team to fukk off without any rational basis whatsoever.
An simpler solution would be to have Mexican referees handle all knockout round games. They're consistently far, far better than European referees. But this is not a practical solution. What a pity the English get stuck with shit referees every weekend, only to be screwed again on "European nights".
Who was the ref who gave RvP the second yellow card when Arsenal were playing, and managing pretty through that moment, Barcelona? That decision was even worse than this one, but this one ridiculous.
No! He flew through the air and maliciously attacked Arbeloa with a kitchen knife strapped to his cock.'Nani sees the ball and wants to control it. He is ‘playing’, not ‘defending’, he does not set out to foul the opponent so the two incidents are completely different.'
Xavi.