[united_99]

I will always support players who give it their all and aren't afraid to try.

I'm not going to waste my time blindly supporting players who hide from the ball or are too scared to try and do anything with it, just because they're apparently nice blokes or have some army of biased, heat map loving internet fans.

He needs to man up and show he's got an ounce of fight in him. Otherwise he very much IS part of the problem, as he was today and against Swansea.

"Giving their all" isn't enough.

And aren't you the one who questionned what Özil does and aren't you the one who generally doesn't see the point of a No 10? Then you will never like Mata. You probably don't appreciate players like him, Silva, Cazorla or Özil as United never had players like them.

 

[Offside]

Mata was United's best player today. We have worse concerns than him.

 

[noodlehair]

"Giving their all" isn't enough.

And aren't you the one who questionned what Özil does and aren't you the one who generally doesn't see the point of a No 10? Then you will never like Mata. You probably don't appreciate players like him, Silva, Cazorla or Özil as United never had players like them.

Silva's excelllent and Cazorla is a decent player as long as the other team don't have the ball.

Ozil disappears whenever things get difficult and has a similar clan of obsessive, weird internet fans as Mata does and Kagawa did have. He's stupidly overated.

I don't recall saying I don't see the point in a number ten...in fact in our current set up it's probably the most important position, but don't let what I did or didn't actually say get in the way of you completely making stuff up.

 

[united_99]

Silva's excelllent and Cazorla is a decent player as long as the other team don't have the ball.

Ozil disappears whenever things get difficult and has a similar clan of obsessive, weird internet fans as Mata does and Kagawa did have. He's stupidly overated.

I don't recall saying I don't see the point in a number ten...in fact in our current set up it's probably the most important position, but don't let what I did or didn't actually say get in the way of you completely making stuff up.

I am not making stuff up, you said you don't see the point of them because they neither contribute too much to attack nor defence. But it's OK as long as our players "man up and give everything" it's of course better than having talented players like Özil or Mata.

 

[Mister Ed]

I am not making stuff up, you said you don't see the point of them because they neither contribute too much to attack nor defence. But it's OK as long as our players "man up and give everything" it's of course better than having talented players like Özil or Mata.

He'd clearly prefer a team full off Valencias I guess

 

[Bwuk]

For a number #10 like Mata, none of our wide players or forwards stretch teams enough for him, and our midfield aren't good enough for him to dictate the game.

Look at the Chelsea side who won the CL with him, I'd argue that's Mata at his best. You had Drogba on the last defender using his size and strength and power, and the likes of Malouda, Kalou, Ramires etc out wide using their pace to get in behind.

 

[noodlehair]

I am not making stuff up, you said you don't see the point of them because they neither contribute too much to attack nor defence. But it's OK as long as our players "man up and give everything" it's of course better than having talented players like Özil or Mata.

He'd clearly prefer a team full off Valencias I guess

That's not what I said at all and I also named Valencia as one of the cuplrits in a post more or less directly above these two.

I don't have an agenda against a position on a pitch. Not sure why I'm needing to point that out.

Not sure how I can argue against people who just completely make up absurd things I've never said in order to argue against me, but I guess its brainbox hour on the caf again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Mata was United's best player today. We have worse concerns than him.

Wow.

 

[Offside]

For a number #10 like Mata, none of our wide players or forwards stretch teams enough for him, and our midfield aren't good enough for him to dictate the game.

Look at the Chelsea side who won the CL with him, I'd argue that's Mata at his best. You had Drogba on the last defender using his size and strength and power, and the likes of Malouda, Kalou, Ramires etc out wide using their pace to get in behind.

Chelsea had huge problems that year with Mata in their team like us now.

Mata is a player that will add goals from midfield and a touch of class. That's him. We are getting that from him. The reason we aren't winning matches lies elsewhere.

 

[Offside]

Wow.

Midfield was poor, Rooney wasn't great, Wingers were terrible, van Persie didn't do much, there is a case for some of the defenders but Mata was the only one who looked like hurting them, and he scored the goal.

 

[Bwuk]

Chelsea had huge problems that year with Mata in their team like us now.

Mata is a player that will add goals from midfield and a touch of class. That's him. We are getting that from him. The reason we aren't winning matches lies elsewhere.

They had huge problems but they utilised Mata superbly. The problems didn't stop them winning the champions league, and then making themselves stronger by signing Hazard and Oscar.

 

[noodlehair]

Wow.

It was everyone else who made him look bad.

The United players, Mourinho, Lord Lucan, the allignment of the planets. That and light reflecting off a weather balloon gave the illusion of making him look more pedestrian than he was.

 

[Mister Ed]

That's not what I said at all and I also named Valencia as one of the cuplrits in a post more or less directly above these two.

I don't have an agenda against a position on a pitch. Not sure why I'm needing to point that out.

Not sure how I can argue against people who just completely make up absurd things I've never said in order to argue against me, but I guess its brainbox hour on the caf again.

You said you stick by players who man up, give it their all and show an ounce of fight. I don't know what players in the team you are refering to exactly, but Valencia for me is a player that often fights and shows himself, so is Young in fact, but it is clear they aren't good enough and them fighting and trying isn't winning us any points. Next to them you have a neat player like Mata that has a football brain the likes of Valencia and Young could only dream about, positioning him more carefully and actually scoring a goal that won us a point today, his 7th goal in 8 games...more than Young and Valencia have been scoring for us combined in like two seasons. Now again I don't know what players you are reffering to, so maybay Valencia and Young aren't the example, who is Rooney ? because I honestly can't think of any players that consistently gives more "fight" or whatever you'd call it than Mata and are so much worthier of your support, Januzaj perhaps or RVP (who in my opnion is also doing feck all for the team atm).

I just don't get people criticsing Mata at all, what has he done so terrible wrong that he deserves people lashing out to him like that ?

 

[Ash_G]

I get the criticism of him in terms of him personally driving the play, it's something he needs to be improving although you could apply that to everyone. However I think some are being harsh. Said it before but if there were runs he wasn't picking out or link up's he was missing I could understand but that's not the case. Got players who don't move off the ball and players who continually check when on the ball, you can't play a give and go cause odds are the other guy will pass it back/sideways.

I don't think it's a coincidence that in terms of play making two very established players in Kagawa and Mata are struggling. Not like either are really making a step up in terms of quality of team they came in to. Personally I think our attacking set up would lead to anyone bar an excellent dribbler struggling because these types of players are reliant on the movement and interplay around them to shine.

 

[noodlehair]

You said you stick by players who man up, give it their all and show an ounce of fight. I don't know what players in the team you are refering to exactly, but Valencia for me is a player that often fights and shows himself, so is Young in fact, but it is clear they aren't good enough and them fighting and trying isn't winning us any points. Next to them you have a neat player like Mata that has a football brain the likes of Valencia and Young could only dream about, positioning him more carefully and actually scoring a goal that won us a point today, his 7th goal in 8 games...more than Young and Valencia have been scoring for us combined in like two seasons. Now again I don't know what players you are reffering to, so maybay Valencia and Young aren't the example, who is Rooney ? because I honestly can't think of any players that consistently gives more "fight" or whatever you'd call it than Mata and are so much worthier of your support, Januzaj perhaps or RVP (who in my opnion is also doing feck all for the team atm).

I just don't get people criticsing Mata at all, what has he done so terrible wrong that he deserves people lashing out to him like that ?

What? Will you read that back to yourself you actually sound like his mum

Valencia is THE biggest culprit when it comes to going hiding. Young you can't accuse of that so much but like Cleverley, Fletcher, et all he just isn't very good. The key is neither is Valencia, really. Not in comparison to Mata or Rooney or RVP. Van Persie I thought just didn't look sharp, while Mata and Rooney were DEFINITELY shirking the responsibility of spearheading our attacking play.

Mata has been given the role of orchestrating our attacking play, and our attacking play as a result is absolutely fecking terrible. It's not entirely his fault but in his performances I don't see a player trying their best to make it work or making sure the game and opportunity doesn't pass him by. I don't see a player who looks more talented than everyone else in the team and worthy of the team being based around him as opposed to the four or five other players who probably think they're best suited in that position. I see someone who just wants to coast through games doing the nice things but then cowers away like a wimp when it turns out the opposition aren't just going to roll over and let him.

He doesn't have to go elbow anyone in the face or anything, but he could at least TRY and do something other than have about 6 reluctant touches then pass the ball sideways. Anyone can do that.

It says enough that people feel the need to come on here and blame everything under the sun for him not playing well. If he WAS doing his job properly you'd all be on here gushing about how good he is, not making, at best, weak excuses for why he isn't.

How long have the excuses been going on now? Over a year, over two different clubs. three different managers, countless different positions and systems he's played in. When will it sink in that maybe, just maybe, HE is the one who needs to start doing better if he wants to make a success of himself?

 

[Tarrou]

There was no movement or pace ahead of him today. Fletcher and Cleverly behind him can't be easy either. Di Maria should be great for Mata, and Herrera returning will help him as well. I don't think there's a problem with Mata at all. We just have two many mediocre players in the team at the moment.

 

[duffer]

He did seem to not want the ball a few times today. It was suprising to see him getting the ball and getting rid of it seemingly as quick as possible rather than look up and try something.

What the feck have you done to him.

 

[adexkola]

He did seem to not want the ball a few times today. It was suprising to see him getting the ball and getting rid of it seemingly as quick as possible rather than look up and try something.

What the feck have you done to him.

We're awesome at neutering our attackers. Mata, Kagawa, Welbeck, Nani, Chicharito...

 

[Mister Ed]

I get the criticism of him in terms of him personally driving the play, it's something he needs to be improving although you could apply that to everyone. However I think some are being harsh. Said it before but if there were runs he wasn't picking out or link up's he was missing I could understand but that's not the case. Got players who don't move off the ball and players who continually check when on the ball, you can't play a give and go cause odds are the other guy will pass it back/sideways.

I don't think it's a coincidence that in terms of play making two very established players in Kagawa and Mata are struggling. Not like either are really making a step up in terms of quality of team they came in to. Personally I think our attacking set up would lead to anyone bar an excellent dribbler struggling because these types of players are reliant on the movement and interplay around them to shine.

He ain't that type of player, he excells at distribution and controlling the tempo, you want a player that can carry the ball forward himself, you should have signed a player with more pace, who is better at dribbling and has got some more steel in his game. People imo are looking for the wrong things from Mata, I get distribution can't be and shouldn't be the only thing he tries doing, but I think he really trys his best when he is not on the ball, he certainly doesn't strike me as pedestrain or lazy as some are labeling him. People can't expect a player like Mata to be one of our most dueling players out there, you can't expect him to recover a shit load of balls, that is not his game, he has to contribute to that and I think he trys hard and isn't as absent as many people describe him to be, nor can people expect him to be like Ronaldo or Bale and dribble his way past a hoard of defenders at lightening speed, that isn't his game either. You need him on the ball in the middle of the pitch for distrbution, but if he can't distribute the ball anywhere because nobobody is making any runs into the box or our wingers are completley useless, you can't expect him to open things up just like that and create a chance, nor can you expect him to control the tempo of the game if everybody around him losing the ball all the time because of bad touches or because of bad passes or because of the fact they don't know what to do with the ball half of the time and end up being pressured into losing the ball.

It is very hard for Mata to do what he is good at and what we bought him if all the rest around him isn't even capabel of playing basic football at times. Ienesta would be ineffective for us aswell if the other players play like that. A number 10 needs movement around him to shine, players opening up gaps to play the ball into, players that actually have the technique to properly receive the ball they get and pass it on, that is the way you can up the tempo and create chances, and that is what Mata is good at, distribution, being the maestro of the midfield controlling the tempo. If you expect him to be anything else than that you have been fooling yourself from the start and if people can't understand how hard it is to be effective in this role if the entire team around you isn't capable of doing certain things like making runs and having a good first touch and playing the ball at decent tempo than you just don't understand enough of the game and how everything is connected on the pitch.

 

[Mister Ed]

He did seem to not want the ball a few times today. It was suprising to see him getting the ball and getting rid of it seemingly as quick as possible rather than look up and try something.

What the feck have you done to him.

Probably the result of there not being any opportunities for him to play the ball into. When he knows he can't do anything with the ball, it is sometimes best to pass it on and start moving yourself rather cling onto it and slow down the game. He should only be clinging onto the ball if he has a purpose for it, in fact I think it is one of our biggest problems is we have to many players holding onto to the ball too long and slowing us down. if you don't immediatly know where to play to, sometimes it is just best pass it on as fast as you can and move, if everybody would be doing that pass and move, the tempo would be going up and gaps would be opening up and somebody like Mata may actually find a purpose for a good forward pass or cross when he is on the ball instead of just looking to get rid of it asap.

 

[noodlehair]

He did seem to not want the ball a few times today. It was suprising to see him getting the ball and getting rid of it seemingly as quick as possible rather than look up and try something.

What the feck have you done to him.

I doubt Mourinho got rid of him for absolutely no reason at all...and to be fair when he looked decent for you was when you were a million miles away from looking like a title challenging team. Now all of a sudden you do despite not really having anyone as talented in his role.

To be honest I still think he's got it all to prove when it comes to being a very top player. There's plenty of players who have all the ability in the world but lack the fire or drive to go with it, and until he starts showing otherwise I've still got him in that category.

Though one thing is when he was good for you I never saw him go hiding like he does for us.

 

[Mister Ed]

What? Will you read that back to yourself you actually sound like his mum

Valencia is THE biggest culprit when it comes to going hiding. Young you can't accuse of that so much but like Cleverley, Fletcher, et all he just isn't very good. The key is neither is Valencia, really. Not in comparison to Mata or Rooney or RVP. Van Persie I thought just didn't look sharp, while Mata and Rooney were DEFINITELY shirking the responsibility of spearheading our attacking play.

Mata has been given the role of orchestrating our attacking play, and our attacking play as a result is absolutely fecking terrible. It's not entirely his fault but in his performances I don't see a player trying their best to make it work or making sure the game and opportunity doesn't pass him by. I don't see a player who looks more talented than everyone else in the team and worthy of the team being based around him as opposed to the four or five other players who probably think they're best suited in that position. I see someone who just wants to coast through games doing the nice things but then cowers away like a wimp when it turns out the opposition aren't just going to roll over and let him.

He doesn't have to go elbow anyone in the face or anything, but he could at least TRY and do something other than have about 6 reluctant touches then pass the ball sideways. Anyone can do that.

It says enough that people feel the need to come on here and blame everything under the sun for him not playing well. If he WAS doing his job properly you'd all be on here gushing about how good he is, not making, at best, weak excuses for why he isn't.

How long have the excuses been going on now? Over a year, over two different clubs. three different managers, countless different positions and systems he's played in. When will it sink in that maybe, just maybe, HE is the one who needs to start doing better if he wants to make a success of himself?

1: Lets agree to disagree because I don't see Mata in that way at all, in fact I disagree on about everything you said in that little discription about him as a player.

2: This somehow just doesn't sink in with you at all, but in order for Mata to be able to do his job at orchestrating the attacking play it is also required other players do a better job. Again you can't expect him to play in a forward pass into the box if no one attempts to run into the box and it is very hard to up the tempo of the attack if everybody around him is losing the ball all the time and slowing us down all the time. It is like blaming the director of an orchestra for playing bad music while the musicians in the orchestra don't half know how to hold their instruments properly. I'll grant you the fact that he hasn't been playing at his best form for quite awhile now but the two things are ofc not entirely disconnected. I'am also not saying he is playing fantastic football because obviously nobody in the team is, I just find the criticism (and he deserves to be criticsed as much as anybody else) over the top and I don't understand people like you lashing out at him like that. I don't get it at all, that is the only reason I'am defending him.

3: What excuses are you talking about ? Mata has not been a succes at Chelsea ? He was their best player for 2 consectuvie years for crying out loud, ask the fans what they think about Mata and see if they agree on your stance that he wasn't a success there. The only problems were with Mourinho who didn't rate him as much as he rated Oscar for some reason and didn't let him play as much as he deserved, and why has he been a faillure at United exactly, again 7th goal in 8 games and I don't know how many assists, but I think he has a couple of them aswell. How in anyway is that a failure ? Sure it not winning us games and the overall attack sucks donkeyass but again that is not his sole responsibility, in fact he can't do much about that if he has to play together with turds like Cleverley and Young. Really again what excuses ? The excuse that n10 is better suited to him than winger ?

 

[Mister Ed]

I doubt Mourinho got rid of him for absolutely no reason at all...and to be fair when he looked decent for you was when you were a million miles away from looking like a title challenging team. Now all of a sudden you do despite not really having anyone as talented in his role.

To be honest I still think he's got it all to prove when it comes to being a very top player. There's plenty of players who have all the ability in the world but lack the fire or drive to go with it, and until he starts showing otherwise I've still got him in that category.

Though one thing is when he was good for you I never saw him go hiding like he does for us.

Wait are you suggesting Chelsea became a title challenging side because they got rid of Mata ?

Obivously I don't want him to leave but part of me would like him to have played in a beter team than he has so far with us and prove you totally wrong. Do you rate Silva and Ienesta as top players or are you weird about them aswell ? Because I bet my ass neither would be anymore effective for us if they have to play with this shit around them.

 

[Vato]

He did seem to not want the ball a few times today. It was suprising to see him getting the ball and getting rid of it seemingly as quick as possible rather than look up and try something.

What the feck have you done to him.

Just wait until they make Di Maria look like Bebe.

 

[Brwned]

Rooney van Persie
Mata
Di Maria Carrick Herrera
Shaw Rojo Jones Rafael
De Gea​

Surround him with energetic, technical players like Di Maria, Herrera, Shaw and Rafael and I reckon we'll see him flourish. I still think next season we'll probably need to get a forward with real pace to see the very best of Mata and Di Maria but just having everyone back fit will have a marked difference because Young, Valencia, Cleverley and Fletcher are nowhere near the level of their counterparts.

 

[Mister Ed]

Just wait until they make Di Maria look like Bebe.

Wow you really are bitter about him moving to us aren't you ?

 

[Vato]

Wow you really are bitter about him moving to us aren't you ?

I'm outraged.

 

[izec]

you cant criticise Mata on here, people will defend him no matter how bad he plays. Just because he is a likeable guy and looks attractive, he seems to have his fanbase on here. Creating nothing in the 2 games is really poor. His deliveries from set pieces were awful too. We have enough players who could play in his position. He should be benched for a few games and can write about his feelings on his blog.

 

[Vato]

@NoArroJusBeta , I actually found myself agreeing with most things you said about Mata.

Noods and a few other posters will have egg on their face at the end of the season.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Its not the other players, its not the formation, he just doesn't play like he used to, he used to do things by himself, scoring tap ins and blind crosses were not Matas strong points.

 

[Vato]

He certainly has a dip in form indeed, benching him might be the best for himself. So he doesn't feel like an automatic starter and gets that drive back.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Not easy for him to perform at his best seeing as he only has two players in front of him to who both just pretty much stands there. There are no runs being made at all, no spaces created in which to run or play through balls. No wonder we're passing it backwards/sideways and hoofing it. Still did the most out of the front three today, would rather see one of Rooney or RvP benched and go 4-2-3-1 once we get some midfielders back.

 

[bosnian_red]

I doubt Mourinho got rid of him for absolutely no reason at all...and to be fair when he looked decent for you was when you were a million miles away from looking like a title challenging team. Now all of a sudden you do despite not really having anyone as talented in his role.

To be honest I still think he's got it all to prove when it comes to being a very top player. There's plenty of players who have all the ability in the world but lack the fire or drive to go with it, and until he starts showing otherwise I've still got him in that category.

Though one thing is when he was good for you I never saw him go hiding like he does for us.

I think the problem with players like Mata is that they need to have other players with pace in the side, players who can commit defenders to drag them out of position and stretch the opposition. Someone who can create the space for them to operate in and pick the opposition apart, but also quick players for the attacking midfielder to pass it to, or runners in behind. Probably why both Mata and Kagawa have struggled, as has Rooney when playing in a #10 position the last few years.

 

[Mister Ed]

@NoArroJusBeta , I actually found myself agreeing with most things you said about Mata.

Noods and a few other posters will have egg on their face at the end of the season.

 

[Mister Ed]

He certainly has a dip in form indeed, benching him might be the best for himself. So he doesn't feel like an automatic starter and gets that drive back.

Benching him will not bring his best form back either. i'd be all for benching if there was serious reason to belive that kagawa, Rooney or januzaj could do a better job in the hole but for the same reasons as I said that Mata is uneffective for us atm so to will those players be uneffective, in fact in some aspects I think they will be worse than Mata. I don't mind other players getting their chance, but I don't think it will adi us much to be honest and benching Mata also won't bring the best out of him either.

 

[Joga Bonito]

He certainly has a dip in form indeed, benching him might be the best for himself. So he doesn't feel like an automatic starter and gets that drive back.

In that case we might as well bench the entire team bar Jones, DDG and Blackett. I understand what you mean but it is not like he has been having a bad game whilst everyone around him is flourishing. He has been really poor the past few games but I feel it has a lot more to do with the lack of quality service from behind him rather than his own poor performances. If you are the team's primary creative force and aren't even getting the balls in the danger area what can you do? He is not someone who can ghost past 4 players and put it in the top corner or miraculously pluck out wonder-passes with zero teamwork/good runs from his teammates. I have already made a huge post on this and don't want to continue repeating myself(not directed at you Vato). I will just quote the post for anyone interested in reading it.

Truly exquisite the way he glided with one foot in the air and brilliant ball control as well.

Mata is easily one our best players and he is the best No 10 we have in the team. Unless we want to play a 4-4-2 with 2 strikers or a 4-3-3 with 2 wide forwards and a striker, he should be one of the first names on the teamsheet. He is probably the only player we have who is outrageously creative whilst being extremely productive in the final third as well. He is more of an attacking direct player rather than a pure playmaker like Silva or Ozil who are content with lying deeper, finding pockets of space and linking up play till they get the opportunity to play a deadly final ball. Mata looks to be more directly involved and is more adventurous than a typical playmaker.

However, he needs players to be stretching defences and making good runs for him to fully utilize his creative/link-up talents. He is not quick off the mark or a good dribbler like Iniesta or Silva, his gameplay drastically differs from them.

There have been quite a number of posts criticising his Swansea game. He had a bad game no doubt, but if you truly analyse the game, you will find the reasons for the anonymous game that he was having. Rooney and Hernandez esp had poor games against Swansea which naturally impacted Mata's game negatively. However, the prime reason for Mata's poor game was the lack of service from the deep.

Our centre backs/full backs weren't great in possession and were mostly conservative with the ball other than Blackett to a certain extent.

Spoiler: Passing stats of our centre backs against Swansea

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/76359/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Jones played as a right back after the first half which had an impact but his first half passes weren't that great anyway.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/112133/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Blackett had a decent passing range but most of his passes were directed at the flanks and there weren't enough passes to the channels or dangerous areas in the middle of the final third.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/55909/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Smalling had an extremely conservative passing range against Swansea with most of his passes in opposition's half failing to reach their target

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/18892/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Young had an absolute stinker when it came to passes and he played like he had an impenetrable wall in front of him and as though he had no left foot...

This is where we could have largely benefited from a defender who is comfortable in carrying the ball out of the defence and also capable of playing good incisive passes to our forwards in good positions. Hopefully, Rojo is that guy and Evans returning will help in this regard. The return of Rafael and Shaw would hugely benefit the team with the injection of pace and adventure that they provide with the ability to link up with the forward players as well. Shaw has been rather tentative in pre-season but he has the pace and ability to carry the ball and link up with players. With time he will settle in and help the team offensively.

Our midfield duo didn't have the best of games as well.

Spoiler: Midfield passing stats

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/59846/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Herrera is still settling in and was at the receiving end of some real harsh tackles. He didn't have the best of games and couldn't influence proceeding enough. His passes into the final third were rather negligible and he could have been more adventurous in this regard.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/14295/1_PASS_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Fletcher mostly made sideways or backwards passes and struggled to truly produce penetrative incisive passes into the final third. He barely made more than 2 or 3 extremely short passes into the final third anyway

Which all ultimately leads to this

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...yer-stats/43670/1_PASS_07#tabs-wrapper-anchor

NOTE: This is Mata's receiving position for passes, not the passes he made.

He barely received the ball in the danger areas you would want you primary creative force to receive the ball in. He had to drop deep more often than not and he hardly made an impact in the final third as a result. Remember like I've stated earlier he is not a player who is great at dribbling or carrying the ball forward, he is great at linking up and providing killer balls when he receives the ball in dangerous areas.

Heck I would go as far as to say even David Silva would be struggling to exert an influence on a game if those were the positions he was receiving the ball in. Mata is an extremely intelligent player and always looks to find pockets of spaces like every other No 10, when he doesn't get the ball in these positions he naturally has to drop deep to get into the game. In doing so it severely impacts his game and results in him only playing up to 60-70% of his full capability. If you have a genuine top notch player like Mata and you don't provide him with the service from deep or provide him with pacy forwards/wide players making intelligent runs, you can't quite expect him to have a brilliant game.

I can see him thriving sooner or later with Evans returning, Rojo joining, hopefully Carrick returning soon with the likes of Januzaj/Welbeck providing pacy stretching runs for him to capitalize on and linking up with RVP and Rooney to good effect in the final third.

 

[noodlehair]

1: Lets agree to disagree because I don't see Mata in that way at all, in fact I disagree on about everything you said in that little discription about him as a player.

2: This somehow just doesn't sink in with you at all, but in order for Mata to be able to do his job at orchestrating the attacking play it is also required other players do a better job. Again you can't expect him to play in a forward pass into the box if no one attempts to run into the box and it is very hard to up the tempo of the attack if everybody around him is losing the ball all the time and slowing us down all the time. It is like blaming the director of an orchestra for playing bad music while the musicians in the orchestra don't half know how to hold their instruments properly. I'll grant you the fact that he hasn't been playing at his best form for quite awhile now but the two things are ofc not entirely disconnected. I'am also not saying he is playing fantastic football because obviously nobody in the team is, I just find the criticism (and he deserves to be criticsed as much as anybody else) over the top and I don't understand people like you lashing out at him like that. I don't get it at all, that is the only reason I'am defending him.

3: What excuses are you talking about ? Mata has not been a succes at Chelsea ? He was their best player for 2 consectuvie years for crying out loud, ask the fans what they think about Mata and see if they agree on your stance that he wasn't a success there. The only problems were with Mourinho who didn't rate him as much as he rated Oscar for some reason and didn't let him play as much as he deserved, and why has he been a faillure at United exactly, again 7th goal in 8 games and I don't know how many assists, but I think he has a couple of them aswell. How in anyway is that a failure ? Sure it not winning us games and the overall attack sucks donkeyass but again that is not his sole responsibility, in fact he can't do much about that if he has to play together with turds like Cleverley and Young. Really again what excuses ? The excuse that n10 is better suited to him than winger ?

1) To be honest if you didn't think Mata, for a player of such supposed talent, played badly today and last week then your opinion on anything in any football game probably isn't to be trusted.

2) Look, if you're willing to argue that it's literally everyone else on the planet's fault for Mata not performing before you'll even consider looking at Mata himself, what's the point in even having this discussion? No matter how bad he plays he'll never do wrong in your eyes. There'll always be an excuse that avoids the need for Mata himself to do better.

Do you seriously believe he couldn't have done a lot better than he did today? All those times he shirked away from the ball, actively turned away from goal to go backwards. Every single piss poor set piece, was entirely someone else's fault other than his?

Seriously?

3) I know a lot of Chelsea fans and they all love him, but you wont find any that wont concede they're a much better team now than they were before Mourinho decided he could do without Mata. A number have told me Oscar, Willian, Hazard etc. simply do more for the team and when Mourinho gave Mata a chance that wasn't the case.

Wait are you suggesting Chelsea became a title challenging side because they got rid of Mata ?

Obivously I don't want him to leave but part of me would like him to have played in a beter team than he has so far with us and prove you totally wrong. Do you rate Silva and Ienesta as top players or are you weird about them aswell ? Because I bet my ass neither would be anymore effective for us if they have to play with this shit around them.

Mourinho's made Chelsea into a title challenging team by getting rid of Mata. It's not really possible to claim otherwise because whether you like it or not this is literally what has happened. You can argue about the ins and outs and reasons why, but it's highly unlikely Mourinho just thought he'd get rid of him for a laugh, is it?

The problem is if we had a better team than we do I'm begining to strongly suspect he simply wouldn't be in it. Either that or HE would have to start being a lot less pedestrian. I hope he does start doing that but today and last week were hardly encouraging...and this idea everything poor Mata does is someone else in the team's fault is frankly stupid and childish. It's a completely self defeating and dumb argument.

"oh, it's not his fault at all. He needs great players all around him in order to play well" ...well then by definition he's not a great player, he's a passenger

 

[adexkola]

I honestly want to know what players aren't passengers by noodle's definition. I've watched a lot of football, and even the best are restricted by an archaic system, and a lack of talent around them. Not saying Mata couldn't have done more mind, but our lunatic way of playing football inhibits his ability to flourish. IMO.

 

[noodlehair]

I honestly want to know what players aren't passengers by noodle's definition. I've watched a lot of football, and even the best are restricted by an archaic system, and a lack of talent around them. Not saying Mata couldn't have done more mind, but our lunatic way of playing football inhibits his ability to flourish. IMO.

Is every system we play going to be "archaic" if Mata doesn't play well in it? Because he's played in like three different systems since he's been at United. Morurinho tried him in different roles in yet another different system. If every system being used these days is archaic, then how exactly can they be archaic?

And if you haven't noticed, we do actually have a rather large number of passengers in the team at the moment.

Just out of curiousity, is there an army of idiots in the Rooney thread attributing his poor performance to everything except the possibility of him playing poorly? I bet there isn't.

 

[noodlehair]

Just looked...nope. Full of people saying Rooney's finished and we should sell him...One goal and two poor performances each so far this season.

Sorry but this place is full of absolute tools.