[Chaky_Best]

I agree with all that, but if he's better in more forward position we need a new CM as I said. Esp given his defensive work. I wouldnt say he's a disaster defensively but he tends to go forward so we need another player with blind to watch his back.

Totally agree with that. He his chasing opposition very high on the pitch and that’s why he’s not a deep lying midfielder, and maybe why he needs two player behind him, but I won’t make him my number 10 because he’s not a Mata type neither. He’s made to play high in a 4-3-3, but the creativity should not come essentially from him. He would thrive with Guardiola in his system when the creativity comes from the perpetual movements and the talent of wide men (including full backs)

To be honest, I would love to see him in a classic 4-3-3 with Carrick and another midfielder behind him (Whether it’s Pogba Strootman etc…a pure 8) and moving Di Maria out wide.

I think that’s an issue like Di Maria, to be in full potential, he has to be covered from every side to be in top condition,.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Totally agree with that. He his chasing opposition very high on the pitch and that’s why he’s not a deep lying midfielder, and maybe why he needs two player behind him, but I won’t make him my number 10 because he’s not a Mata type neither. He’s made to play high in a 4-3-3, but the creativity should not come essentially from him. He would thrive with Guardiola in his system when the creativity comes from the perpetual movements and the talent of wide men (including full backs)

To be honest, I would love to see him in a classic 4-3-3 with Carrick and another midfielder behind him (Whether it’s Pogba Strootman etc…a pure 8) and moving Di Maria out wide.

I think that’s an issue like Di Maria, to be in full potential, he has to be covered from every side to be in top condition,.

Carrick and not Blind?

Yeah, people were talking a lot LVG's preferred formation is 4-3-3. Blind or Carrick with Herrera and another pure 8 and with ADM and another winger ( nani or a new one ) on the wings sounds nice tbh.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

It's actually really confusing for me to be honest. On the one hand I really like him. He's technical, he scored a goal, and he always looks and plays like he cares.

One of the few decent performers last match, but on the other hand I felt he wasn't exactly brilliant. Obviously because we lost, but I could see a Swansea fan making a good case for Shelvey having a better game than Herrera, which is quite telling I think.

And then if you look at Rooney's best game in midfield, he scored two against Newcastle + an assist and also added much better defensive work than Herrera. Could almost understand why Van Gaal preferred Rooney there.

Switching to a classic 4-3-3 with Blind as #6, Herrera as an #8, that's a Tottenham level midfield core imo, don't see us competing for a league or CL title with those two in the centre next year. Herrera with his creativity and energy would make a very good #10 in a classic 4-3-3. But then again, Rooney has offered even more goals, assists and again defensive help when he played as a #10 over the years.

Maybe Rooney as a striker with Herrera behind him, Herrera deserves the #10 spot over Mata I think, he contributed just as much in terms of goals and assist in less games, and offers a bit more allround than Mata too.

 

[Sarni]

It's actually really confusing for me to be honest. On the one hand I really like him. He's technical, he scored a goal, and he always looks and plays like he cares.

One of the few decent performers last match, but on the other hand I felt he wasn't exactly brilliant. Obviously because we lost, but I could see a Swansea fan making a good case for Shelvey having a better game than Herrera, which is quite telling I think.

And then if you look at Rooney's best game in midfield, he scored two against Newcastle + an assist and also added much better defensive work than Herrera. Could almost understand why Van Gaal preferred Rooney there.

Switching to a classic 4-3-3 with Blind as #6, Herrera as an #8, that's a Tottenham level midfield core imo, don't see us competing for a league or CL title with those two in the centre next year. Herrera with his creativity and energy would make a very good #10 in a classic 4-3-3. But then again, Rooney has offered even more goals, assists and again defensive help when he played as a #10 over the years.

Maybe Rooney as a striker with Herrera behind him, Herrera deserves the #10 spot over Mata I think, he contributed as much in terms of goals and assist in less games, and offers a bit more allround than Mata too.

Yeah but you're extremely biased towards Rooney. You've been coming up with that Newcastle game for a month, even though he's had a few terrible performances in midfield since. One game against opposition in shocking state doesn't make him a midfielder.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Yeah but you're extremely biased towards Rooney. You've been coming up with that Newcastle game for a month, even though he's had a few terrible performances in midfield since. One game against opposition in shocking state doesn't make him a midfielder.

Well sure, and maybe that;s not justified since Rooney hasn't actually scored from open play since that Newcastle game. Maybe Herrera is in better form and therefore a better option. But still, if you look at Herrera's best three games in midfield this season compared to Rooney's best three games in midfield, I would probably say Rooney performed better.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah but you're extremely biased towards Rooney. You've been coming up with that Newcastle game for a month, even though he's had a few terrible performances in midfield since. One game against opposition in shocking state doesn't make him a midfielder.

What you have to remember with Rooney is that he could hit a brick wall physically pretty quickly. He has been playing since he was 16, that is a long time. We are seeing it with RvP, when it happens it can happen almost overnight.

 

[Sarni]

Well sure, and maybe that;s not justified since Rooney hasn't actually scored from open play since that Newcastle game. Maybe Herrera is in better form and therefore a better option. But still if you look at Herrera's best three games in midfield this season compared to Rooney's best three games in midfield, I would probably say Rooney performed better.

Rooney has had far more 5/10 performances in midfield than 8/10 performances, Herrera is more consistent as in he won't really be 9/10 or even 8/10 most of the time but he won't be 5/10 either. He needs to be better defensively and more aware but that should come with games, Spanish midfielders are well known for this and at Athletic he was good at controlling the midfield.

Rooney isn't a midfielder.

 

[Sarni]

What you have to remember with Rooney is that he could hit a brick wall physically pretty quickly. He has been playing since he was 16, that is a long time. We are seeing it with RvP, when it happens it can happen almost overnight.

Caving in and giving him a 4.5-year contract last year was a blunder IMO, there's no way he'll be worth his wage 2 years down the line. Still a good player but nowhere near the world class level he's supposed to be.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Caving in and giving him a 4.5-year contract last year was a blunder IMO, there's no way he'll be worth his wage 2 years down the line. Still a good player but nowhere near the world class level he's supposed to be.

That was Moyes keeping him onside. If SAF was still there he might have been out of the door. I don't even consider Wayne a captain in this team. We need someone who talks and guides players through games, we have an inexperienced defence and a lot of new players who have never played in this country before. The all need guidance, a cool head, not someone who just runs about a lot.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

That was Moyes keeping him onside. If SAF was still there he might have been out of the door. I don't even consider Wayne a captain in this team. We need someone who talks and guides players through games, we have an inexperienced defence and a lot of new players who have never played in this country before. The all need guidance, a cool head, not someone who just runs about a lot.

Not a fan of Rooney?

 

[Amar__]

He vanishes in midfield? He didn't close down Shelvey, he has little to no positional awareness, he chases the ball like a dog in the park rather than marking his man. He's fun to watch in attack, but he's criminally bad at controlling the midfield. He'd probably be fine as the advanced member of a midfield three with two people who understand defending behind him, but we're not playing that system and he's not good enough to force us to change our whole tactical setup to accomodate him.

lol

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not a fan of Rooney?

Not entirely, more to do with his hissy fits over money.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

lol

Everybody was praising him on Saturday, today it's appears to be give Ander a kicking day. Poor lad. He was our best player on Saturday, so why not pick on the forwards who couldn't hit an elephants arse with a banjo.

 

[jojojo]

To be honest, I would love to see him in a classic 4-3-3 with Carrick and another midfielder behind him (Whether it’s Pogba Strootman etc…a pure 8) and moving Di Maria out wide.

The strange thing is that LvG's preferred formation is supposed to be 433 with that lined up as something like 42121. I think Herrera would do fine defensively is he was paired with Carrick or Blind in that midfield 2 or played ahead of another pairing as the 1. He's played in both those positions with Athletic, particularly under Bielsa.

The way we're setup at the moment we're expecting him to cover the fullback, cover Blind and push upfield. If he looks like he's chasing around it's probably because he's the only one in roughly the right area to do it - too much width and too much depth.

 

[Kag]

Yet Ander just started 2 games, we conceded 3 and dropped 5 points.

You've definitely proven your point, he's made all the difference. Damn Van Gaal and his philosophy

Saturday was the first Premier League game he's started since December.

 

[LeChuck]

That was Moyes keeping him onside. If SAF was still there he might have been out of the door. I don't even consider Wayne a captain in this team. We need someone who talks and guides players through games, we have an inexperienced defence and a lot of new players who have never played in this country before. The all need guidance, a cool head, not someone who just runs about a lot.

Top post. Been banging this drum for years.

SAF had him halfway out the door, and what do we do? Give him a contract renewal, an even larger wage, the captaincy, and let him start every game.

Herrera had a good game on Saturday. Not great, but good. And something we haven't had in our midfield for a while- penetration and tenacity.

 

[NK86]

Well sure, and maybe that;s not justified since Rooney hasn't actually scored from open play since that Newcastle game. Maybe Herrera is in better form and therefore a better option. But still, if you look at Herrera's best three games in midfield this season compared to Rooney's best three games in midfield, I would probably say Rooney performed better.

I may not have the best memory for these sort of things but in which 3 games has Rooney outperformed Herrera?

 

[NK86]

Yet Ander just started 2 games, we conceded 3 and dropped 5 points.

You've definitely proven your point, he's made all the difference. Damn Van Gaal and his philosophy

And we lost as soon as we dropped Falcao to the bench. Definitely must be him who was helping us gain all those wins and draws. Surely you must be wanting him back in the line up now.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I may not have the best memory for these sort of things but in which 3 games has Rooney outperformed Herrera?

Well that depends on what you think are Herrera's best matches. Maybe QPR at the start of the season - he scored a goa. Saturday's Swansea match.

For Rooney in CM I would say scoring against Liverpool, two goals+ assist vs. Newcastle. Against Tottenham we played a very good first half with him in midfield, strikers should've finished that game. All pretty big teams too.

 

[NK86]

Well that depends on what you think are Herrera's best matches. Maybe QPR at the start of the season - he scored a goa. Saturday's Swansea match.

For Rooney in CM I would say scoring against Liverpool, two goals+ assist vs. Newcastle. Against Tottenham we played a very good first half with him in midfield, strikers should've finished that game. All pretty big teams too.

The main criticism for Herrera is that he does not control games enough for us. And in none of the games you mentioned, Rooney helped us to control the games from midfield. We were regularly over ran by Liverpool and that 3-0 scoreline flattered us in the end. Tottenham was one game where we should have it wrapped up in the first half itself but we did not control the game as such, we created a couple of very good chances which RvP fluffed. Again, there is not a single game which Rooney has helped us control from midfield. If we are wanting goals and assists from our midfielders I think Herrera's stats are pretty good and I guess better than Rooney's from midfield positions.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Top post. Been banging this drum for years.

SAF had him halfway out the door, and what do we do? Give him a contract renewal, an even larger wage, the captaincy, and let him start every game.

Herrera had a good game on Saturday. Not great, but good. And something we haven't had in our midfield for a while- penetration and tenacity.

this is a point- a half decent perfomonace from Herrera was still better than what have seen all season.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Also Rojo was very slow closing down Shelvey for his shot. If he had been quicker he might have actually blocked it.

 

[Vato]

And we lost as soon as we dropped Falcao to the bench. Definitely must be him who was helping us gain all those wins and draws. Surely you must be wanting him back in the line up now.

 

[Escobar]

Daley blind is the kind of player you want in a holding midfielder, reads the game well, good tackling and keeps it simple perfect in a 4-3-3


4-3-3
you have Blind holding, keeping it simple and the team ticking along
Herrera, box to box
Di Maria, the one to "attack the space" and drive the team forward

Blind for me is very limited and if the game doesnt go as he prefers it, he seems lost and disappears. As he did in the last few games. He keeps it neat and tidy, sure, but he could be more dictating, forcing play, inject speed, have a physical presence. In general, he could be more present, too often he's like a passenger

 

[Adam-Utd]

Also Rojo was very slow closing down Shelvey for his shot. If he had been quicker he might have actually blocked it.

While that may be true, centre backs are usually taught to keep shape and not leave any holes. The shot wouldn't have been a problem apart from the freak deflection!.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

While that may be true, centre backs are usually taught to keep shape and not leave any holes. The shot wouldn't have been a problem apart from the freak deflection!.

Wish we'd had a deflection at the other end. It happens as you say.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Wish we'd had a deflection at the other end. It happens as you say.

It's just our luck isn't it? After basically dominating the game I just knew something would happen like that

Then again we don't ever shoot from long range, so those types of goals won't happen.

 

[LeChuck]

I'd like to see a midfield of

Carrick---Blind
----Herrera----

With one striker up top. I think that'd work quite well. AdM and one of Januzaj/Young/Mata on the other flank.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd like to see a midfield of

Carrick---Blind
----Herrera----

With one striker up top. I think that'd work quite well. AdM and one of Januzaj/Young/Mata on the other flank.

Suprised it hasn't happened this season tbh, seems quite obv

 

[bishblaize]

Suprised it hasn't happened this season tbh, seems quite obv

What's odd is that if you look through LVG's discussions on tactics over the years, that kind of 433 with two wide players flanking a striker is his preferred formation. There haven't actually been that many occasions when those three have all been fit at once (any?) but its still odd that he hasn't tried it more with other players. We did play that formation vs Palace, and looked garbage, so maybe that put him off with the current team.

 

[Cassidy]

What's odd is that if you look through LVG's discussions on tactics over the years, that kind of 433 with two wide players flanking a striker is his preferred formation. There haven't actually been that many occasions when those three have all been fit at once (any?) but its still odd that he hasn't tried it more with other players. We did play that formation vs Palace, and looked garbage, so maybe that put him off with the current team.

They have, Blind played left back, Carrick CM and Herrera on the bench vs Southampton.
Also I believe they were all fit for QPR too.

 

[Borys]

Suprised it hasn't happened this season tbh, seems quite obv

What's odd is that if you look through LVG's discussions on tactics over the years, that kind of 433 with two wide players flanking a striker is his preferred formation. There haven't actually been that many occasions when those three have all been fit at once (any?) but its still odd that he hasn't tried it more with other players. We did play that formation vs Palace, and looked garbage, so maybe that put him off with the current team.

It isn’t really odd, if we play that trio in midfield then 2 wingers is a must, so there’s place for one striker only. We play with two, that’s the basic rule this season. That is also our problem.

 

[LR7]

I'd like to see a midfield of

Carrick---Blind
----Herrera----

With one striker up top. I think that'd work quite well. AdM and one of Januzaj/Young/Mata on the other flank.

I've been hoping for this midfield all season, but as soon as Carrick got fit last time, Blind went to playing in the back 5.

 

[Player Red]

It isn’t really odd, if we play that trio in midfield then 2 wingers is a must, so there’s place for one striker only. We play with two, that’s the basic rule this season. That is also our problem.

This, plus I think their have been very few opportunities when both Carrick and Blind were fit. And a lack of fit defenders for some of those games meant Blind went into defence.

Would love us to only play one up top and put some actual width on the pitch.

 

[bishblaize]

It isn’t really odd, if we play that trio in midfield then 2 wingers is a must, so there’s place for one striker only. We play with two, that’s the basic rule this season. That is also our problem.

Also no room for Mata in a 4-3-3. Big call leaving out Mata, Falcao and RVP. Not now, but three months ago it would have been.

 

[bishblaize]

I've been hoping for this midfield all season, but as soon as Carrick got fit last time, Blind went to playing in the back 5.

I actually think Blind's knee injury took him out pretty much as soon as Carrick got fit again.

 

[Cassidy]

It isn’t really odd, if we play that trio in midfield then 2 wingers is a must, so there’s place for one striker only. We play with two, that’s the basic rule this season. That is also our problem.

It's still odd (since our defensive issues) which even makes the insistence on 2 stikers even more odd.

 

[Roosney]

And we lost as soon as we dropped Falcao to the bench. Definitely must be him who was helping us gain all those wins and draws. Surely you must be wanting him back in the line up now.

I know you're just joking but there's actually some truth in your first two sentences.

 

[Verminator]

I know you're just joking but there's actually some truth in your first two sentences.

Please explain. Genuinely interested.

 

[Borys]

It's still odd (since our defensive issues) which even makes the insistence on 2 stikers even more odd.

Yeah. I said that because if you take a look at our line-ups this season you will see that LvG has tried almost everything. One thing he didn't try though is to play one striker formation. I know it's hard decision on probably 3 of our star players, but either that or we're out of top 4 (and he's out too, probably).