In this case yes, agreed the system didnt help, but for a player who still gets treated like he does, and being undroppable to play like crap unless everything is perfect for him is not acceptable.But the game last night was completely the system as was seen by the fact that everyone was shite. If Rooney had played in the midfield position that's he's been taking up for Utd in recent months he would have been far better as would the whole team. He's not got the pace to play up top but can certainly stil cover ground in the middle. I understand critasism when it's just, but Rooney was completly played wrong Yesterday in a sort of false 9. (Here comes the response about excuses...)
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- 15
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- 6
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- 5
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I'm praying that with Mourinho in charge we finally have a manager strong enough to make him a squad player.
remember the big debate last world cup regarding should Rooney or Sterling be in the middle? 2 years later still shoehorning him in teams
What are we judging him on then? Frankly if he was delivering the performances and looked like he could do it consistently then he wouldn't need anyone to defend him.
Last year everyone was calling him our best striker. The media, the fans, the majority of people on this forum, etc. Some even went as far as to call him our best player. This was when we had the likes of Di Maria, De Gea, Mata, RVP, etc in our team. 
Everyone was slating LVG for playing him in CM and playing RVP and Falcao ahead of him upfront.
Fast forward to the next season and Van Gaal places his entire faith in Rooney and sells all his other strikers including Chicharito to accommodate the main man. Rooney had an absolutely dire season. He failed to score a goal in 12 consecutive games at one point and LVG refused to drop him. Instead he was repeatedly standing up for him in the press conferences, saying garbage like "I told you so" when he finally broke the duck and scored a lucky tap in. This is the same manager who was hanging the likes of Mata and Schweinsteiger in the media by saying they've not been good enough, etc etc.
I was honestly embarrassed for the team this season. Thank god Rashford came onto the scene cause I don't think I could stomach watching Rooney up front again. His back was always turned to goal, 90% of the time he was chillin in midfield or making tackles in our own box so it left us absent up top. The guy can't dribble past players either. No pace whatsoever. Unless he manages to hit a long shot or score a tap in, we're fecked.
After realising he's had an absolute mare as a ST, all of a sudden he's a midfielder again. After saying last season he was a striker and should be played up front. Soon enough, he'll be saying he should be played in the number 10 position. And when that starts going wrong, "Oh I should be played up front again"
The best position for Rooney is on the bench. Preferably in Everton or even China. If we want to get back to the top, we need to be ruthless. Ferguson got rid of Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Tevez, and more. So why are we still holding onto a player who's obviously past it? He's never gonna be a top CM. We're literally just playing him there because they're too afraid to drop him. Which leads me to believe there's a clause in his contract that states he must play every game when fit. And the club don't want anybody knowing about this.
Everyone was slating LVG for playing him in CM and playing RVP and Falcao ahead of him upfront.
Fast forward to the next season and Van Gaal places his entire faith in Rooney and sells all his other strikers including Chicharito to accommodate the main man. Rooney had an absolutely dire season. He failed to score a goal in 12 consecutive games at one point and LVG refused to drop him. Instead he was repeatedly standing up for him in the press conferences, saying garbage like "I told you so" when he finally broke the duck and scored a lucky tap in. This is the same manager who was hanging the likes of Mata and Schweinsteiger in the media by saying they've not been good enough, etc etc.
I was honestly embarrassed for the team this season. Thank god Rashford came onto the scene cause I don't think I could stomach watching Rooney up front again. His back was always turned to goal, 90% of the time he was chillin in midfield or making tackles in our own box so it left us absent up top. The guy can't dribble past players either. No pace whatsoever. Unless he manages to hit a long shot or score a tap in, we're fecked.
After realising he's had an absolute mare as a ST, all of a sudden he's a midfielder again. After saying last season he was a striker and should be played up front. Soon enough, he'll be saying he should be played in the number 10 position. And when that starts going wrong, "Oh I should be played up front again"
The best position for Rooney is on the bench. Preferably in Everton or even China. If we want to get back to the top, we need to be ruthless. Ferguson got rid of Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Tevez, and more. So why are we still holding onto a player who's obviously past it? He's never gonna be a top CM. We're literally just playing him there because they're too afraid to drop him. Which leads me to believe there's a clause in his contract that states he must play every game when fit. And the club don't want anybody knowing about this.
Agree and there's really no more analysis needed.There's no need to talk about tactics, formations or his position. He's going to be physically shot wherever you play him.
This would be true of Rooney was an out and out striker but his whole career he has been a versatile player that has often had seasons in midfield in number 10 or even played as a wide player. It's been said for years that he has the skill set to prolong his game by moving deeper and I still think he can. Hes certainly not got Scholes quality but then who does. But what he does offer is still more than many players in the Prem and we will find it harder to buy someone like that than people make out. He's finished as a stiker, doesn't have the pace but for a CM he still seems to cover the ground pretty well. I just think there's too many people that are keen to place all the blame on Rooneys head before looking at the state of the overall team and the rest of the players in it.
Do I expect the likes of Herrera, schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger to improve under Mourinho? ABSOLUTELY I do because i strongly believe the possession football wasn't suited to many of our players and held many back from performing at their top level. I've also seen plenty of people on this forum that agree with that view that the players we have are better than they have shown. So why then is Rooney not afforded the same chance. A chance to work under a top class manager , in a team that is hopefully functioning far better. I think if that was to be the case then Rooney would be able to maintain his form much more and would be a highly influential player as he was in the last couple months of the season.
The big thing is we need to ensure that all the pressure isn't on him, he's no longer the top class player that he was for years and is now just a good player but he still has the ability to change a game with a moment of magic (see run in final, or backheal goal winner). He's still good enough to have an impact and he's still good enough to fight through a bad season and return a better player next year. Many don't want to see him afforded that chance and my pointing to an agenda is because a lot of posers are jumping on the bandwagon in a sheep mentality. We will wait and see next year but I think Mourinho will be keen to work with him and I still have hope that we can get some good form out of him consistently for next season.
He shouldn't be undroppable but nor should be chucked on the curb when he's still a very good player.
This is all well and good, and you have laid some good points. I think the point that many are making is not just about the ability but the status the carries. This will be the eternal problem with him being around. There is every chance that if the likes of Herrera and Schneiderlin and Pereira were given the same vote of confidence in the midfield as Rooney was afforded, they could have become better and hit some form towards the end of the season. Instead, Rooney, who probably wasn't expected to play in the midfield at the start from the season has jumped the queue ahead of actual midfielders. Same with England, Rooney is a threat to every player regardless of his form but it is not vice versa. This in itself is a detriment to other players. Losing 2/3 players with potential for a player in decline is not worth it.
If he was to become a permanent midfielder where approximately would you rank him? Compared to other midfielders currently playing in Europe.
Would he be in the top 30?
The problem is that whether he plays as a #10 or a CM we'll always be a team that is less than it could be with him in it.
You think that making him a squad player would show how JM is strong!? More like dumb as feck,if you dont plan to play him,sell him. Not only Rooney would get worse in fitness but he has enough power to shit stir rest of squad.
Mourinho is a fan of Rooney.
Anyone who thinks he's going to get rid of him from not just the squad but the starting eleven is deluded.
Anyone who thinks he's going to get rid of him from not just the squad but the starting eleven is deluded.
I don't know that's a hard thing to say because we just arnt a functional team so until that happens its a tough call, although I think in the last few months he's shown more in CM than our other options have. I think in terms of in the league his passing is up there as pretty good and certainly better than many premiership alternatives. His drive and hunger sets him apart of afew for me, saw it in the cup final where he just has a willingness to push the team on. And I'm still of the opinion that while he might have a poor game he's still capable of a moment of magic like his run in the cup final or that backheal goal. I think we need to sign a top class midfield partner ie a Pogba etc and then Rooney will have a better complement in the team.
Yeh I can understand the frustration in his status but ultimately we can't hold that againt the guy personally because he has earned that through a decade of top performances. He shouldn't be undroppable but I do still think he's got another part to play in the next year or 2 and the thing is while there may be better midfielders available, we can only sign a certain number of players and we need to prioritise. Personally I think I'd prefer to sign another top class midfielder like a Pogba to complement Rooney in midfield and build from there. If he sucks then that's it for him and I'll finally hop on the Rooney out bandwagon but until he's had at least till January under Mourinho I'd like people to just be open to him getting one final chance.
Don't you think it's a bit risky to go into a season not knowing where Rooney stands as a midfielder? Is he top 30? Top 40? Even as a big fan of his you can't say.
perhaps but unfortuanately I think 90% of our players are in that same uncertain boat where they may simply be not good enough, or LVG might have been severely holding them back and stopping individuals and the team performing to their top level. Personally I believe we have more quality in this squad than people realise and I think with just a couple of top class additions this summer Mourinho will have a team that he really likes the look of already. Of Rooney has played as our best midfielder over the last couple of months compared to our other options(as I believe he has) then he's not the problem player, we need to be looking at a top class player alongside him. I think one of big problems in that Rooney has been under so much pressure because our squad just lacks those world class players. Add afew for next season and it's all looking brighter.
Rooney is lucky to still be at the club given his performances the last few years and plenty of fans would have no issues if he was sold and he knows it. There's no chance he starts shit stirring while he's the club captain, if he did the entire fan base would soon find out about it and the wouldn't turn on Mourinho.
Yea he wouldnt be the captain if he is on the bench,maybe fan base would be in JM corner but that means nothing,like we saw in Chelsea case this season.
You're still adamant he should be regarded as a midfielder simply because he is done at the top. Moreso, you are keep saying he is the best midfielder. This I doubt very much, how a failed striker can be regarded a better midfielder than 4/5 natural midfielders who have been out of form or just mismanaged. Either one of Herrera, Schneiderlin, Blind or Schweisnstiger on form would simply outperform Rooney on his best midfield display, hands down. To compare a privileged and pampered (for lack of better words) Rooney to a bunch of mismanaged, out of favoured midfielders is not a just comparison. If any of the other midfielders had been afforded the same opportunities and confidence by the manager, I doubt you would be saying what you are saying. The funny thing is this guys can become better midfielders, on the account of their age and potential whereas Rooney can hardly match that potential progress given his undeniable decline as a footballer.
So rather than persist with Rooney who IMO would be behind our other midfielders if all things considered were equal, I'd rather we buy a Pogba, as you say to complement our actual midfielders and make sure we have a bunch of midfielders reaching their maximum potential. This is for me is progress.
You really need to stop saying that a player has earned the right to start because of what he has done for the last decade. We live in the present albeit on the shoulders of history. It's like saying that LvG should be given a 5 year contract because of his illustrious history. When are going to start moving forward? What is the point a legacy when it doesn't hand over power to the incoming generation. Bigger and better legends like Raul and Xavi left the club at a time when they're still putting better performances than Rooney, making way for younger potential. Leaving hasn't diminished their legendary one bit
This is not to say that Rooney can't add to the team but given his status will always be an issue we need to move ahead, other than that I'm happy to have him as a squad player.
Mourinho's favorite system is 4231, now with Zlatan I guess Rooney will play as No.10.
Do you think it would work? To be honest, I have my doubts on this (I hope to be wrong). IMO we should play 433... If both players start, which formation do you prefer?
Do you think it would work? To be honest, I have my doubts on this (I hope to be wrong). IMO we should play 433... If both players start, which formation do you prefer?
I have to agree that delusion afflicts anyone who thinks Jose is going to get rid of Wayne. What's left to debate is how Mourinho would use him and we're doing that here.
The way to shoehorn in Rooney that does the least damage is to use him as a one of the two defensive midfielders. It's a horrible idea, of course, but it's the least horrible of the available options.
He can't physically handle 9 or 10 and he's obviously not a wide player. But he does like to ping long passes from deep positions. But if we're going to use Rooney this way we better have a rock solid back line and a top shelf other defensive mid who can cover for Rooney's defensive weaknesses.
The other route for Mourinho, but this is risky, is to unleash Rooney at 10 until it becomes painfully obvious that he can't handle the job and must be relegated to the bench for cameo duty. But I don't see that happening.
When a club has been unsuccessful it's the players who win feel the wrath from fans and I doubt Rooney holds very much sway in the United dressing room considering how much it's changed in the last 3 seasons. He can act like a moody bitch all he wants I serious doubt Ibra/Martial/Schneiderlin etc will give a feck.
He will more than likely play as a second striker like you say, structurally from the #10 position. (Not as a traditional number 10.) It will be a lot better because he will be able to drop and support the midfield and at the same time transition the attack. I think he'll score a lot of goals ghosting in with the power that Martial commands on the wing. All he will need to do is show at the edge of the area for a cut back and that is something he's done consistently over his entire career. Instead of Martial starting from almost a stand still in a possession system I think Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 will be perfect and allow the central players to drop and spread while leaving fast counter attacking players to break and be utilized.
Zlatan is a much better hold up player than Rooney, Martial and Rashford is on paper. I mean, coming into the EPL as a first time player at 34 it could go any which way to be truthful. But structurally on paper we should be able to get a lot of productivity out of a spread forward line of Martial left, Rooney free to play between the midfield and striker and a right winger coached to play quickly on the transition and counter attack.
Looking at it from a perspective of "how is it possible to utilize Rooney properly" I think that is probably the easiest and most productive way on paper. I highly doubt Mourinho will pursue a style that doesn't work so ferociously and marginalize some of the better player we have in the squad.
It would be nice if this thread could go more than 6 posts without the usual suspects desperately shoving their way into a civil discussion to expunge a pound and a half of brown about Rooney, we all know that won't be happening.
this is going to get found out very quickly, just like Gerrard did. If many United fans can see it, many opposition fans see it then coaches analyzing us will be well aware of it. Its not exactly subtle
Apparently Hodgson has said Rooney is a mandatory starter.
A lot of your pro Rooney argument is based on him being better than Herrera and Scneiderlin for the last couple of months. Those two were truly awful during that period. It really doesn't mean much to say Rooney was better.
Rooney playing upfront with Ibrahimovic would be a shambles.
If he's still at the club next season then he should either be played in midfield or not at all.
he leads a charmed life
I'm sorry but the bolder part is just not how football works. I have no idea where people get this idea that players can only ever play one position at the top level and never change their game but it's just bollocks. Valencia is no longer a RW in my book, he's now a very high level RB and that's his position. He now plays that 'unnatural' position better than 90% of RBs in the league. Similarly, Rooney was a CF/CAM and he is now moving a little deeper to become a midfielder as he was always touted to do. It's not about pampering to a player it's about looking at the attributes he brings to the team; passing, running into space, shooting/scoring and saying he brings those things better than all our other 'natural' midfielders. He's been the best midfielder for us this season I just don't understand how that can be argued when the rest have been shite.
I'm also not saying he should play on past performances, what I said was that he deserves his status and wages from what he has achieved in the past in the club. He should earn his spot in the team on merit of performances just like every player but it just seems like no matter how well he plays you just don't want him here. That doesn't make any sense, why would you not want a top performing Rooney in the side unless you have something fundamentally against him.
If we could go out this window and sign Pjanic and Pogba then I'd agree Rooney shouldn't be first choice but if we only sigh one new midfielder then I'm looking at our options and thinking Rooney can offer more than Schniderlin, Mata, Herrera, schweinsteiger, Blind and Fellaini because quite simply he's a better player.
And yet he was better and if you expect Herrera and Schniderlin to up there game then it's reasonable to expect Rooney to do the same. Rooney might well be shite or he might be a victim of the system like everyone else however, unlike other players Rooney will always take the blame and it's very unfair.
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If rooney can no longer play has a striker, I don't see any use rooney has to offer. Would rather united invested in a top class midfielder, than shoehorn rooney into a starting 11. With zlaten, rashford, martial, don't think we even need rooney, if he is willing to be part of a squad maybe, but a guaranteed starter he should not be a guarantee
This will be put to bed this euros, thankfully.
No doubt hodgson's system will be blamed.
Can I just ask, why judge Rooney on a few decent performances in midfield and not the first half of the season where he failed to contribute a single point? The teams he put a good shift against were poor. Did Rooney do well in midfield against Leicester? He disapppeared in the second half against Everton and was dominated by Cleverly and Gibson....
Do you truly believe Rooney is good enough to line up in midfield for a top side?
I think schweinsteiger is a top class player but his injuries mean he's so immobile, people call Rooney slow but Christ knows he's not as leggy as schweinsteiger. He was utterly shocking in the first half of the season I agree, literally one of the worst half seasons I have seen but he's done as a striker and then that's only amplified by the fact that he didn't get any ball or chances in that Utd system. When you combine those factors it causes it to create a severe problem. Past Christmas tho he's been back to being very good with that good run of goals in January and then some good midfield performances over the last two months.
This will be put to bed this euros, thankfully.
No doubt hodgson's system will be blamed.
Can I just ask, why judge Rooney on a few decent performances in midfield and not the first half of the season where he failed to contribute a single point? The teams he put a good shift against were poor. Did Rooney do well in midfield against Leicester? He disapppeared in the second half against Everton and was dominated by Cleverly and Gibson....
Do you truly believe Rooney is good enough to line up in midfield for a top side?
I'm terms of the games you meantioned, I thought he played ok against Leicester tbh and against Everton he didn't get dominated by cleverly and Gibson he played very well up until the point where Everton just came into the game and had us penned back. You can't expect a team to not have a spell of the game where they are on top and it wasn't Rooneys fault the whole team went down a gear in that period. There's a common theme on here that people target Rooney individually even when the whole rest of the team is following the exact same trend.
What people need to realise is that when the team plays poorly so does Rooney and by the same token when we play well Rooney plays well. I expect us to play well the majority of next season under a far better Mourinho system and therefore Rooney will have a good year.
http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2016/June/04/hodgson-rooneys-best-position-is-anywhere/
'Rooney can play at his best in any position and shoehorning players into the team is a good thing.'
England will disappoint in the Euros and Hodgson will get the boot. Thus becoming the third manager in three years to refuse to acknowledge problems with Rooney and consequently fail at his job.
Once you start going down the "show some respect!" road then you've already lost the argument. Respect from 99.9% of supporters towards formerly great players (Rooney, Giggs etc etc) is a given, and is besides the point; what supporters of both United and England want is what is best for their teams now.Guardian said:
But if Rooney plays the midfield role well, and better than 'natural' midfielders why is that shoehorning?
Because he is not a midfielder, and we could do better than wayne rooney
That's why playing Rooney in midfield is a horrible idea, but every other idea is even worse.
Haha this argument just doesn't make sense if he plays the role well. It's baffling me that everyone thinks you can only play one position over your career.
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