Rooney Dropped | Megathread closed

[Djemba-Djemba]

While I don't disagree that this was regression from a team perspective, this particular move was the best thing that happened to Rooney. Valencia was pretty much his personal servant, and created many goals for him, without having the ability or the ambition to do things independently like Ronaldo.

On the whole, I agreed with his sentiments at the time though. He said exactly what most of the caf and every United fan was afraid of too. Personally, I have no issue against his contract situations. He was doing right by himself, and we are absolutely loaded anyway, so why not?

I just have a problem with the fact that he's shit. In fact, I don't even have a problem with the fact he's shit - it happens, he's burnt out, and we can handle it, we have better players. He's entitled to lose it. My main problem has been with years of people talking about him as if nothing has changed, and how he's still 'the most important player' etc, and how 'he can play any position', and 'if I'm picking the team, I'll always have Wayne Rooney in it' etc. That is the shit that pissed me off. I didn't get angry when Giggs could no longer run past full backs. He's entitled, he's old. The difference was, everyone,including Giggs, realised it. There was no denial of it. We've had years of denial regarding Rooney.

I think that is the main reason for the ill feeling towards Rooney to be honest.

His transfer requests and steep decline didn't help but the bizarre stepford wives thing that the media had for years, ignoring how bad Rooney had become and acting like everything was fine, was the major reason for this groundswell of anger and frustration at Rooney.

 

[Dobbs]

There's an interesting bit in the article where it says we've scored more goals with him in the team . He should not be starting in our team currently but he's not been anywhere even remotely close to our worst players in the past 2-3 seasons as some like to suggest on here.

The problem you have on the Rooney debate is credibility. The reason being is that it's taken Rooney to completely hit rock bottom before you want him dropped. Repeated poor performances across a number of years weren't enough. His level had to hit conference standard before you could see he shouldn't be in the first XI for a club like United. Upto two weeks ago you were happy for him to be in the team.

So the worst player, second worst, third worst, who cares? Either way he's been nowhere near good enough for some time. Focusing on a detail like that just smacks of you being overly defensive again.

 

[Chaky_Best]

It's true that we all want to see him out of the team, but Mourninho's just trying to do it diplomatically. He can't come in the dressing room and send him off that quick. Rooney with a lot of counter performances should show to other lads that's he deserves to be on the bench.

He was a terrific player until 2011 I'd say. But his fairy tail with us finished when he negotiated his contract in 2010 and when he pushed (or not) for a Chelsea transfer few years ago. We have to remember that it's now 5/6 years that he's manipulating everybody inside the club to get more power.

SAF was right 4 years ago. Now Mou should stick to a plan without him and with Mkhitaryan, Mata and Rashford

 

[GBBQ]

I definitely think in Rooney's case, if you live by the sword then you die by the sword. If you hold the club to ransom over new contracts then don't expect cushy treatment as you become ineffective.

That being said, from a footballing sense you can't doubt the man's input as one of the main forces in our dominance at the end of the last decade. His Caps and goals show he has been a loyal servant who at times used his importance to the team as a bargaining position. Don't think any of our superstars over the years didn't do similar. They may not have been as public about it but that's probably SAF's fault or going public last time.

Rooney's playing days are hopefully numbered but lets not be historical revisionists and forget what he's done for us over the years.

 

[soapythecat]

I can't understand how a striker can take several months trying to score 3 goals starting every game.

I do hope you are trying to be sarcastic?

 

[Jazz]

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

Moyes allowed that?!

 

[clarkydaz]

He. Turns. Up.

what more do you want, blood?

 

[SteveJ]

Moyes allowed that?!

Yeah, mate. For some bonkers reason, Moyes revealed it in an interview. Contrast that to how SAF told Wayne that signings were 'none of his business'.

 

[Jazz]

Yeah, mate. For some bonkers reason, Moyes revealed it in an interview. Contrast that to how SAF told Wayne that signings were 'none of his business'.

Moyes is such a weirdo I mean how can a boss allow that to happen?!
Can imagine Rooney was probably telling Hodgson who to play for England

 

[SteveJ]

Give these types an inch and they take a mile, chiefo.

 

[Devil may care]

So Moyes and Rooney were doing a bit of Youtube scouting?

 

[SirScholes]

Agree. But in his best seasons personally the club was less successful. When there was another talisman in attack the team was more successful.

Due to his workrate and ability as an all rounder, he is better suited to not being the main man. Unfortunately, when that is his role, he sees it as "sacrificing himself for the team" when in fact it is playing to his strengths.

Gerrard was similar. He saw himself as the midfield general. His (and Liverpool's) best season was playing behind Torres with Alonso and Mascherano dictating things from midfield.

We lost the point of our attack in ronaldo, moved rooney to striker we but didnt fill the void left by Ronaldo, we were still close 2nd in the league only on goal difference and also got to a champions league final we were very competitive (also Dave's first year between the sticks cost us some points). Unfortunately during his times as our main striking threat we didnt replace ronaldo and it was coming to an end of an era with giggs scholes getting older and our hopes being pinned on Tom Cleverley Anderson and Nani coming good.
I dont think Rooney being the "Talisman" has anything to do with our drop during those years its more the midfield standard dropped and we became slow in our tempo.
Its obvious to me that a team is going to more successful when it was a number of talisman as opposed to just one

 

[Shark]

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

That is absolute muck if true. In fact if true, it should be another long list of reasons why Rooney needs to pack up and go. For some bizarre reason, even for his complete lack of social skills and intelligence, he's been able to manipulate like some kind of sociopath since SAF has gone.

 

[ravi2]

It is remarkable what happens when people see someone as their hero or one of their heros - as it must be with many on here who can't grasp that Rooney is genuinely finished.

Not the same scenario but I felt devastated (for a 14 year old boy) when we sold Beckham to Madrid - genuinely shocked me despite the events leading up to it. Years on, I'm just indifferent to seeing stars fade away from United.

I struggle to wrap my mind around how people can't just call it like it is. It's over. He's been a remarkable signing but every match he plays when he's stinking the place up, ruins the memory of his best moments.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[Nate Dogg]

An educated guess says that Rooney has always performed best on instinct. He came into the PL at a young age, tons of momentum, everything was great for ages, not much reason to question what he was doing. These last few seasons there has been lots of criticism, some of which he will have been aware of. When feeling under pressure his brain doesn't respond as well, hence the ball going under his foot several times against Iceland, and the basic errors we've seen at times this season.

The first time he wanted to leave the club, his form was absolutely shocking. Even after signing the new deal it took a while for it to recover. If his mind is stressed then his body seems to lose much of it's technical quality. After the first summer event for England when he was superb, he has tended to under-perform in major finals for England; another stressful situation for him.

Rooney certainly isn't the only player where this has happened. Lee Martin looked a really good player until he scored an own goal for us that I seem to recall cost us in a game. After that he never looked United standard. More recently, McNair and Blackett both did ok until the first error, after which their confidence collapsed and they no longer looked United standard players. Gary Neville's form went to pieces after two back-pass errors cost us goals in Brazil (?)

Footballers need to go onto the pitch with a clear head and sufficient resilience to cope with the occasional mistake. It is probably sensible for the manager to take players out of the team before the press starts writing articles about their terrible form.

I get the instinct thing about him but surely his touch was never that bad where he is now struggling to do the basics!

 

[sosolid4u09]

You'd hope so, if Mata didn't play well enough then to keep in the side over Rooney then it will take some effort to displace someone who has been so poor.

the problem is unless mata is playing 10/10 every game, he will get dropped for rooney. one average game and he's gone.

 

[sunama]

Well according to some he was our best player under Moyes, well we finished 7th, so not a good example to show rooney was not that bad LOL

IMO, he was our best player, that season.
However, in 2016, is probably our worst player and he needs to sit on the bench. If possible, I would not even have him on the bench. I'd tell him to take a seat next to Bastian.

The Rooney defenders keep using the excuse, "But he used to be great a few years ago".
Nobody is disagreeing with this, but right now, he is terrible. We played 1 league game without him and our attacks were far more incisive and fluent.

 

[Adisa]

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

Jesus Christ! The Moyes part is ridiculous

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We lost the point of our attack in ronaldo, moved rooney to striker we but didnt fill the void left by Ronaldo, we were still close 2nd in the league only on goal difference and also got to a champions league final we were very competitive (also Dave's first year between the sticks cost us some points). Unfortunately during his times as our main striking threat we didnt replace ronaldo and it was coming to an end of an era with giggs scholes getting older and our hopes being pinned on Tom Cleverley Anderson and Nani coming good.
I dont think Rooney being the "Talisman" has anything to do with our drop during those years its more the midfield standard dropped and we became slow in our tempo.
Its obvious to me that a team is going to more successful when it was a number of talisman as opposed to just one

There's considerable truth to this, in my opinion.

Rooney's (puzzling, in some ways) status at United has something to do with the above as well. I've said before that he became our #1 player in the absence of a Ronaldo replacement - both on the pitch and in terms of being the poster boy in general.

I'm not 100% sure that Fergie would've necessarily sold him, but if he had stayed on he certainly would've continued in the vein indicated by the RVP transfer: He aimed to boost our attacking force - adding players on (or above, as the case may be) Rooney's level. It didn't play out like that, as we all know.

Part of the animosity towards him may be explained by the fact that in recent seasons he - obviously - simply hasn't been good enough for a player who remained, precisely, the poster boy and the main man for a club like United.

 

[spwd]

Was exactly my thoughts. Why is he getting his PR guys to say something as outrageous as that in the Mirror. I'd say Woodward has already booked him a flight for the USA or China for summer 2017. There's no way the club will entertain ideas of a squad player hanging around for a couple more seasons on 300,000 a week. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Rooney tried to drag his heels to continue the bench role here for the remainder of the contract instead of disappearing to the USA in the summer. He definitely will improve his form with a bit of a break on the bench and he will definitely be an asset for Europa league and FA cup games and in case the injuries pile up but there's just no way the club will let him see out his last 2 seasons on that kind of money as an impact sub unless he's willing to cut his salary in half from summer 2017 onwards

Hanging around like a bad smell, I'd guess as time goes on and his playing time gets less and less he will want to leave because let's be honest he shouldn't be in the team now nevermind in 6/12/18/24 months time so unless he's going to be happy not ev n being in the squad I can only see him leaving.

The second time, when Chelsea were chasing him, Mourinho kept prompting him to come out publicly and say he wants to leave United, which he never did. The only real mistake he did for me were the original shenanigans pulled on the first contract renewal, since then he's actually showed the club a lot of respect.
Players want to leave all the time, DDG for example was ready to shoot off to Madrid 2 summers ago, Evra asked to leave twice according to Sir Alex etc. Does it hurt their status? I don't think so.

I think once the dust settles perhaps Rooney will be looked back on more fondly than he is jsut now. He's certainly a club legend anyway.

But they didn't try to force our hand and didn't want to go to a direct rival/enemy.

Football sage Garth Crooks lauds Wayne Rooney for fulfilling the terms of his contract:

Lost for words, I wish he was

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

That's bloody crackers

 

[ash_86]

Start Rooney in the Midweek games . That gives us excuse for resting him on the weekend league games

 

[NinjaZombie]

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

Wait, any links to when he said this? It's ridiculous if true.

 

[SteveJ]

Wait, any links to when he said this? It's ridiculous if true.

I can't find any, despite using a multitude of search terms. I saw it some time ago via News Now or whatever it's called, and have seen the story referenced in readers' comments on other articles.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Wait, any links to when he said this? It's ridiculous if true.

Reflects more badly on DM and his inability to impose on big name players.

 

[reelworld]

I can't find any, despite using a multitude of search terms. I saw it some time ago via News Now or whatever it's called, and have seen the story referenced in readers' comments on other articles.

Wait, that's actually on the news? I thought it was one of your inserted jokes!

 

[sunama]

Actually, if you remove his goals against bottom half quality (or lower) teams, he had three goals last season.

He scored 8 league goals last season, which is indicative of how good/bad he is. He ranked 26th in the list of league goal scorers.
At present, I'd say he is behind, Ibra, Rashford, Mata. He is probably our 4th best attacker, with Martial being our 5th best (what has happened to this guy?).

So, as you said, in less important games, he can definitely get a starting spot.
But if we are in a big game or a must win game, we can't afford to have him start.

 

[SteveJ]

Wait, that's actually on the news? I thought it was one of your inserted jokes!

Blimey...my jokes must be more lame than I thought!

 

[Red_toad]

Rooney is tarnishing his legacy with these subpar performances over the last few seasons. He'll probably break the record this season as we play some small teams in the cups but the whole saga may become increasingly tedious. For his own good he should do it soon. Otherwise, people will start to laugh at him.

The £300k a week will ease the pain I'm sure.

 

[An Irish Red]

Nobody is disagreeing with this, but right now, he is terrible. We played 1 league game without him and our attacks were far more incisive and fluent.

If we were to draw up a list of all the attributes you would like in an attacking midfielder then Rooney would have precisely none of them. He's finished.

 

[SirScholes]

There's considerable truth to this, in my opinion.

Rooney's (puzzling, in some ways) status at United has something to do with the above as well. I've said before that he became our #1 player in the absence of a Ronaldo replacement - both on the pitch and in terms of being the poster boy in general.

I'm not 100% sure that Fergie would've necessarily sold him, but if he had stayed on he certainly would've continued in the vein indicated by the RVP transfer: He aimed to boost our attacking force - adding players on (or above, as the case may be) Rooney's level. It didn't play out like that, as we all know.

Part of the animosity towards him may be explained by the fact that in recent seasons he - obviously - simply hasn't been good enough for a player who remained, precisely, the poster boy and the main man for a club like United.

Agreed,never really thought about it but I can understand Rooney's frustration at the end of fergies last season, when Ronnie left Rooney was asked to be the main man and to be fair he delivered, i think we were all screaming for a new midfield at the time and instead of that we brought in RVP.
As a fan that is great we won the league and stole arsenals main man, although it was so obviously a stop gap to get Fergie a title from city so he could go out on top (again rightly so) but if I'm Rooney i'd be thinking hang on I step up I take on the goal scoring job and try to continue overall workrate and instead of improving the midfield you buy a striker, make me second fiddle and put me back in my old role, then drop me for players like welbeck in a real madrid game. That would rightly peeve me off, now football isn't about keeping anyone happy and Rooney in an ideal world should of just knuckled down and proved everyone wrong (although for me under moyes he performed maybe the best out of the whole squad) but I would certainly be thinking if I was Rooney and if this is how fergie is going to treat me then I might just head off to pastures new.

 

[SirScholes]

The £300k a week will ease the pain I'm sure.

I think to players like Rooney the money won't matter, players like balotelli will lap it up and probaby post on twitter, it'll hurt Rooney

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Even if we disregard the totally obvious - and proven - view that Rooney only said those things to hide his real intentions, we simply can't have him acting like a manager would - Moyes revealed that Wayne "was always in his office, using DM's computer to pick out players he felt United should sign"; a bloody ridiculous situation which shows the weakness of Moyes and the entitlement of Rooney. Remember John Terry's attempted coup against Capello? Well, that kind of thing is what you get when senior players arrogantly assume they know best.

What on earth?!

 

[SteveJ]

What on earth?!

I wasn't even surprised to read it, chief.

 

[Oneunited26]

IMO, he was our best player, that season.
However, in 2016, is probably our worst player and he needs to sit on the bench. If possible, I would not even have him on the bench. I'd tell him to take a seat next to Bastian.

The Rooney defenders keep using the excuse, "But he used to be great a few years ago".
Nobody is disagreeing with this, but right now, he is terrible. We played 1 league game without him and our attacks were far more incisive and fluent.

Its funny how PPL will use the literal term he can score goals this season, yeah one goal LOL. But the fact remains he struggles to score goals, the way his current physical condition I would bet against he will not score another goal this season. I be stunned if he gets to 7 goals, let alone hit double figures. I thought start of the season, scored a goal, added a couple of assists maybe Jose has turned him around and he will get better, but its the same old shit. He can't play neither 10 or 9, he's lost his energy and mobility, and his first touch which is key for attacking players seems to have deserted him, if it was great to begin with

 

[Treble]

For the lovers of stats, he isn't doing any better than last season. Including the CS game and the one in the EFL Cup, he's scoring/assisting at the same rate as last season, i.e. he needs about 180 min. to contribute a goal.

 

[itso 7]

Agreed,never really thought about it but I can understand Rooney's frustration at the end of fergies last season, when Ronnie left Rooney was asked to be the main man and to be fair he delivered, i think we were all screaming for a new midfield at the time and instead of that we brought in RVP.
As a fan that is great we won the league and stole arsenals main man, although it was so obviously a stop gap to get Fergie a title from city so he could go out on top (again rightly so) but if I'm Rooney i'd be thinking hang on I step up I take on the goal scoring job and try to continue overall workrate and instead of improving the midfield you buy a striker, make me second fiddle and put me back in my old role, then drop me for players like welbeck in a real madrid game. That would rightly peeve me off, now football isn't about keeping anyone happy and Rooney in an ideal world should of just knuckled down and proved everyone wrong (although for me under moyes he performed maybe the best out of the whole squad) but I would certainly be thinking if I was Rooney and if this is how fergie is going to treat me then I might just head off to pastures new.

The Van Persie signing was a bit shortsighted on Fergie's part but in hindsight he did deserve to go out on a high. However, Fergie himself would say he was disappointed by Rooney's failure to kick on from that 2009-2010 breakout season that confirmed him as a world class player, of course he was coming out of a very very good individual season in 11-12 but by then the trend of scoring goals in an otherwise below par performance. So yes the RVP signing and his subsequent elevation to main man could have hurt Rooney but the circumstances then and his patchy form, even when scoring, can be used by Fergie to justify his decision.

 

[devilish]

2004/05 11 goals 4 assits
29 games 17 goals
2005/06 16 goals 10 assits
26 goals 36 games
2006/07 14 goals 11 assist
25 goals 35 game
2007/08 12 goals 13 assist
25 goals 27 games
2008/09 12 goals 7 assists
17 goals from 30 games
2009/10 - 26 goals 3 assists
29 goals from 32 games
2010/11 - 11 goals 11 assists
22 goals in 28 games
2011/12 - 27 goals 4 assists
31 goals in 34 apps
2012/13 - 12 goals 10 assits
22 goals 27 apps
2013/14 (moyes) - 17 goals 10 assits
27 goals from 27 games

He's had a great career with us and more than contributed his fair share; these are just prem games

There's no doubt that Rooney was a fantastic footballer. Unfortunately he lacked the football brain needed to become a one of the best players of his generation. No wonder why, once the physical aspects of his game starting to go tilt, he stopped being effective.

 

[Dobbs]

The Van Persie signing was a bit shortsighted on Fergie's part but in hindsight he did deserve to go out on a high. However, Fergie himself would say he was disappointed by Rooney's failure to kick on from that 2009-2010 breakout season that confirmed him as a world class player, of course he was coming out of a very very good individual season in 11-12 but by then the trend of scoring goals in an otherwise below par performance. So yes the RVP signing and his subsequent elevation to main man could have hurt Rooney but the circumstances then and his patchy form, even when scoring, can be used by Fergie to justify his decision.

Fergie should take a big chunk of the responsibility for that though. Rooney has that brilliant 2009-10 season as a No.9 but for some reason never really played there again. Not consistently anyway. He signed Hernandez and dropped Rooney back to the No.10 spot. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[parisite]

Fergie should take a big chunk of the responsibility for that though. Rooney has that brilliant 2009-10 season as a No.9 but for some reason never really played there again. Not consistently anyway. He signed Hernandez and dropped Rooney back to the No.10 spot. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Rooney probably fancied playing at 10, he's been doing exactly as he pleases for years, sometimes it's been beneficial and sometimes it hasn't. Of late he's fancied himself as a bit of a deep lying "quarterback" and all he's done is get under the feet of the players with the talents to play in that position.

 

[Dobbs]

Rooney probably fancied playing at 10, he's been doing exactly as he pleases for years, sometimes it's been beneficial and sometimes it hasn't. Of late he's fancied himself as a bit of a deep lying "quarterback" and all he's done is get under the feet of the players with the talents to play in that position.

I don't think he was pulling that shit under SAF. It was Fergie who bought Hernandez and dropped Rooney back.

In 2010 Rooney was probably the best No.9 in the world, or close to it. A year later he's in the No.10 position being asked to mark Busquets out of the game. Crazy stuff from Fergie.