I didn't see the replay but I'd never heard of most of the Liverpool players in the 1st Plymouth match. I doubt these 17 year old that Liverpool played were tired due to Klopp's style of football.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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I was listening Carragher last night and he is absolutely right about everything he said bout Liverpool
Just check which players were on the bench yesterday and you will see the quality of the team. Klopp plays all the time the same 13/14 players, no more. Sturridge is out of form, old, and he won't be the one who was when he was playing alongside Suarez. Their defence line is horrible yet they are still above us.
Plus, they have Can who is useless and the lad can't play for a team like Liverpool.
Having said that, I know they are above us and they still have chances to win the league, but I totally understand the anger of Liverpool fans with their manager, specially after the press conference he gave yesterday.
Just check which players were on the bench yesterday and you will see the quality of the team. Klopp plays all the time the same 13/14 players, no more. Sturridge is out of form, old, and he won't be the one who was when he was playing alongside Suarez. Their defence line is horrible yet they are still above us.
Plus, they have Can who is useless and the lad can't play for a team like Liverpool.
Having said that, I know they are above us and they still have chances to win the league, but I totally understand the anger of Liverpool fans with their manager, specially after the press conference he gave yesterday.
You paid 89 million for Pogba........and are paying Ibrahimovich 260k per week.
Would be nice to be able to do that but our resources are much less.
Matip is definitely a leader, but he's only just coming back from injury.
Henderson is still troubled by his heel injury.......before he was injured recently he was playing very well.
United had a run recently were they won 2 games out of 11.......and they are now playing a lot better, as I predicted they would.
Liverpool are experiencing their own blip......more prolonged than I'd like, but I'm confident we'll be back on track soon.
Klopp is one of the biggest nearly men in football today, perhaps along with Simeone at Athletico. They'll win a trophy here and there but they're not good enough to consistently challenge because they're so one dimensional. When Klopp comes up against someone who is a better tactician, he loses.
They look a couple or 3-4 players short now isn't? Injuries, absences (Sakho, Mane, Matip) & Milner & Lallana who have been very good look like they need a rest.
Who have they got to come in, Moreno & Can who are crap & youngsters who it is probably 1-2 years too soon for.
Oh well, never mind...
Is some of this down to Klopp?
Who have they got to come in, Moreno & Can who are crap & youngsters who it is probably 1-2 years too soon for.
Oh well, never mind...
Is some of this down to Klopp?
Klopp maybe, but Simeone? No way. 1 EL, 1 CdR, 1 League, lost in CL only against real madrid, lost in CdR against madrid and barcelona. The only "failures" you can hold against him are the CdR in 2012 and 2016(lost to albacete and celta vigo), and in 2012 he'd just got the job
Sorry but Simeone is a fantastic manager. And if you are going to mention Atletico Madrid at least spell the name of the club right.
But Bascombe (who said Le Tallec would be better than Ronaldo) says it's his team and Lord Klopp's Scouse disciples will all fight for and protect their Lord.
Stevie g is back and lfc go to shit. Coincidence..
He's a lucky charm
He's a lucky charm
This is a good post and I share the majority of what you say. However the nuances are that the players that are looking tired are the ones returning from injuries. Or in Hendo's case still running with one. Milner looks mentally fatigued rather than physically.
Teams have sat back against us already but we've found ways to win. Mainly Mane based ways. Klopp made a major blunder not having a player scouted and ready to purchase in January to replace that pace and other injuries that were to come and did come all at once. Saturday is a massive game for all Liverpool fans. Yes it's Senegal against Cameroon at 7pm. Good chance for Senegal to get knocked out hopefully.
There's no argument we have no squad. Most of us said any light stress test put on that would break us. The flip side to that is we're finally looking like getting our Sept / Oct first XI back and ready by mid Feb. We desperately need CL football to attract bigger squad players. Cups mean very little this season in the grand scheme of things. Not that I wasn't a little gutted being knocked out.
Raymond Verheijen:
Liverpool manager Klopp has run his players into the ground during pre-season. Consequently, players cannot perform during an entire season.
Most people in football have opinions on hindsight. Liverpool crumbling in 2nd half of season was already predicted multiple times in August.
Plus, more quotes from the Dutchman. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...tter-defeat-running-into-ground-a7546856.html
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Liverpool manager Klopp has run his players into the ground during pre-season. Consequently, players cannot perform during an entire season.
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— Twitter API (@user) date
Most people in football have opinions on hindsight. Liverpool crumbling in 2nd half of season was already predicted multiple times in August.
Plus, more quotes from the Dutchman. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...tter-defeat-running-into-ground-a7546856.html
Take a look at this:
Games played with Mane: 21 W15 D5 L1 GF 55 GA 21
Games played without Mane: 9 W3(Derby, Plymouth, Spurs' B team in EFL) D2 (Utd, Plymouth) L4(Burnley, Swansea, S'oton x2) GF 9 GA 7
Games played with Mane: 21 W15 D5 L1 GF 55 GA 21
Games played without Mane: 9 W3(Derby, Plymouth, Spurs' B team in EFL) D2 (Utd, Plymouth) L4(Burnley, Swansea, S'oton x2) GF 9 GA 7
Mane is the Liverpool Carrick.
Matip also has these mystical numbers in his favour as well.
Liverpool were slowing down before Mane even left. Literally any Liverpool player would have these statistics if they missed the start of the second half of the season when the pressing starts to take its toll
The one defeat with Mane was Bournemouth and when he was subbed off we were 3-1 up.
This is all very premature. It's not worth mentioning until we see where Liverpool finish.
Surely you can only make that statement if we continue to struggle when Mane comes back?
You struggled going forward before he left though. You had a miracle December when your defence could actually keep clean sheets and hid your drop in attacking quality. Look at your bad run, scoring goals isn't your problem, you've broken teams down more times than not. I'd guess you've scored as many goals during this bad run as your output in December before Mane left. It's not like he helped you out defensively that much, you still leaked goals like a tap at your best.
First Liverpool didn't have a bad defence, Matip being injured was the problem. The stats backed that up.
Then it was Coutinho's injury and the stats backed that up.
Now it's Mane.
Liverpool have this fantastic ability to build players up when they don't actually play.
Not Klopp moving Firminho out wide even though he was bossing it through the middle, not Origi and Sturridge channeling their inner United player when through on goal. Or playing without a number 9 v Swansea and still set you up to put cross after cross into the box anyway.
If any Liverpool player missed the start of the second half of the season their stats would be impressive. He left at the right time.
Saying that Klopp's high intensity football might have issues with fatigue later into the season.. wow - such insight! FWIW his Dortmund side usually performed significantly better in the second half of the season, though of course if we're talking about fatigue then Bundesliga's winter break certainly helped in that regard.
Come on.. that's the same for every set of fans.
15 goals scored, 7(3 clean sheets) allowed in 6 games.
6 games, 4 GF(1 peno, 1 plymouth, 2 swansea) 6 GA
Of course he did
That's by design.
They don't, but Matip has little to with that. They're better with him, but it doesn't change all that much. If they set up defensively, like they did against city, they can be a good defensive team without Matip
Bigger loss than Matip, but replaceable. Origi is a decent back up for him, though with a different skillset
It's always been Mane. He's their single most important player, and they nobody who can replace him
Disagree. From what i've seen, Liverpool aren't struggling due to fatigue, not yet. Their crisis is a direct consequence of missing Mane
Christ, you'd think Mane is 2010 Messi from the comments in here 
Well I suppose you could if you want to misunderstand people on purpose. Sure Mane being world class is one possible interpretation of those stats, but the other one is that he's a good player and they neither have a decent replacement for him nor were they able to compensate for his loss through a change in tactics.Christ, you'd think Mane is 2010 Messi from the comments in here
You don't go on a ridiculous drawing/losing streak against dross like Sunderland and Swansea because you're missing one player. Their problems are far deeper rooted than just losing Mane for a few games.
I haven't watched enough Liverpool matches to have a serious opinion on that matter, but it's not that far fetched to say that a team's attacking sharpness greatly depends on one or two particular players who open up spaces where other's can't. It doesn't even have to be a Messiesque player, just bringing something to the team that other players lack can be enough.
So if Mane comes back and we start winning games again then that will be a coincidence?
Do you think the stats United have with and without Carrick mean anything?
Liverpool do look calmer at the back with Matip. Liverpool do look better going forward with Mane playing. That's just the way it is.
I think we've struggled with the busy Christmas period and the smaller squad we have has led to a drop in terms of intensity, but to suggest that we've completely fallen apart when there's still so many games left is premature in my opinion. We'll be at a point soon where it's one game a week until May whilst others have European football.
You know that the reason Klopp moved Firmino wide was because Coutinho was injured? The reason that Sturridge, Lallana and Origi have had to play out of position on the right at times is because Mane was missing. The reason the much more uneasy Klavan has played most of the Christmas period was because Matip was injured. These missing players do make a difference. It's not an excuse as Klopp decided this squad was good enough, but it's certainly a possible reason for the disjointed form we've shown over the last month.
Time will tell in the end.
Well I respectfully disagree on this. Mane doesn't change the fact that Liverpool lack quality in GK, defence and midfield, look tired and also lack the mental strength of challenging for the league title.
I think if Flopp manages to actually beat another team and plays long balls in the game then the oppo manager should say it's because Liverfool played long balls.
But that stat also coincides with our poor run .. so is that just coincidence or is there something more to it ? We'll find out soon enough but it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty at the moment.
His transfer dealings, or lack of, so far are interesting. I can understand not really signing anyone first January and then again this past Summer, Matip (8), Karius (6), Wijnaldum (7) & Mane (8) have generally been good when played (those ratings in parentheses based on their matches played) and he did have to trim the squad for this season, so no more players than that was understandable. This January we were clearly crying out for a replacement for Mane (to be in place first week of January in readiness for Mane's absence) another striker (since Ings is out for the season and Sturridge struggling) and a LB to support Milner. We all know that Klopp doesn't like to panic buy and that Brandt and a couple of others have been long-term targets (Pulisic) and that they were not available this Winter, as good players rarely are - though both Suarez and Coutinho were Winter buys. The only player we have been strongly linked to this January is Quincy Promes, and then he'd arrive too late even if it does happen. More than likely our sale of Ilori for £3.75m is going to be our only business - and that greatly surprises me.
"Normally the stadium is windy and it's difficult,” Mourinho said about Wembley when asked about the final against Southampton.
@Mitchell Nicholas, post: 20380410
Raymond Verheijen
Liverpool manager Klopp has run his players into the ground during pre-season. Consequently, players cannot perform during an entire session.
Most people in football have opinions on hindsight. Liverpool crumbling in 2nd half of season was already predicted multiple times in August.
(Sorry can't replicate your post due to media inserts and my fledgling status)
And yet the Liverpool team continue to run further on average each game, month on month since the start of the season.....
Average Distance Covered Per Game (km)
August 115.3
September 116.5
October 116.7
November 117.3
December 118.2
January 118.7
.........hmm something tells me it isn't through lack of running around that's causing Liverpool's current issues.......nor does it suggest a slowing down as the season progresses.
This particular Dutchman has a hard on for Klopp and Liverpool for some particular reason.
Sometimes it pays to question the narrative.
Raymond Verheijen
Liverpool manager Klopp has run his players into the ground during pre-season. Consequently, players cannot perform during an entire session.
Most people in football have opinions on hindsight. Liverpool crumbling in 2nd half of season was already predicted multiple times in August.
(Sorry can't replicate your post due to media inserts and my fledgling status)
And yet the Liverpool team continue to run further on average each game, month on month since the start of the season.....
Average Distance Covered Per Game (km)
August 115.3
September 116.5
October 116.7
November 117.3
December 118.2
January 118.7
.........hmm something tells me it isn't through lack of running around that's causing Liverpool's current issues.......nor does it suggest a slowing down as the season progresses.
This particular Dutchman has a hard on for Klopp and Liverpool for some particular reason.
Sometimes it pays to question the narrative.
He really doesn't like Klopp .. he guns for him whenever he feels an opportunity is there to do so and is quiet the rest of the time. Hang on ... do you think he is a RC member
its not about simply running alone but being effective in pressing while running like you were in the early months.
I've seen people say that before but where is the logic ? Do you think the players have forgotten how to press in 'Klopp's Style' ? Do you think Klopp would accept that if they did ? I have especially watched that particular aspect of our play in the last couple of matches and it really is no different, we are still closing down the angles, aggressively pursue targets in numbers and are still winning the ball back as frequently.
The decline, for me, has to do with something else, not even remotely related to fitness or pressing .... it's an accumulation of a number of factors that together impact a squad as small and inexperienced as ours; failure to take our chances, injuries to key players and the number of games that we had to play over the December /January period (I think I saw 9 in 30 days mentioned). I expect with the return of all of our key players that our form will improve again once they are match fit and we return to 4-6 games a month whilst the other teams in the Top 6 (bar Chelsea) are playing 7-8 games a month.
True, their problems are that they are a good team made up of good players who rely on a system that elevates the whole from good to great. When the system doesn't work as intended, they revert to being merely a collection of good players, and their system plays against them instead of for. Mane is the most important piece of that system, and more importantly, they have nothing to replace him with.
This sounds absurd, but if they signed even a good normal player like redmond, with the right skillset, they could have contained the damage this month(by which i mean not lose at home to swansea and qualified for the EFL final)
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I agree with you wholeheartedly.
And I'd suggest that this is due in the main to a lack of appropriate personnel in key areas for a variety of reasons.
But this is not the narrative that's being pushed........which is that the Liverpool players are knackered due to Klopp's methods.
It will be interesting to see how these statistics develop over the rest of the season.
You really haven't been missing that many great chances. There were a few half chances in the 2nd half against Southampton on Wednesday night but not many were clear cut. You were awful against Swansea and deserved to lose, same story at St. Mary's, in fact Southampton should have had the tie wrapped up after the first leg, if not for wastefulness.
There's no doubt you have missed the urgency of your best attacker, Mané. At the minute Coutinho looks like the only player able to create anything, with Firminio stuck up front he's not involved in the build up play enough. The lack of creativity doesn't surprise me though considering the mediocrity of your midfield; Can and Henderson are as average on the ball as it gets.
I think with Mané back from AFCON and Coutinho returning to full fitness, you will resume good form.
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From F365 today:
"Liverpool’s win rate without Mane this season is 33.3%; with the 24-year-old in the side, they have won 71.4% of their games. They have suffered four defeats in nine matches without him, and just one loss in 21 with him. And they score an average of one goal a game when he is removed from the side, compared to 2.61 goals a game when he starts. These are not statistical quirks or coincidences; Liverpool struggle desperately without him."
Throughout the season Liverpool have been wonderful going forward and suspect at the back. In numerous games their attack has compensated for their inability to keep a clean sheet. You score one, Pool score two.
With a key part of their attack now missing their deficiencies at the back are highlighted all the more. Without Mane their goalscoring has dropped by over a goal and a half per game. You score one, Pool score one.
I don't think Mane is a world class talent but I do think his pace and unpredictability transforms Liverpool's attack. Without him stretching opposition defences Liverpool's players have far less space to work with and exploit. Knowing he'd be off to the AFCON this season I'm surprised Klopp didn't have a better strategy in place to mitigate his absence (though given all the talk of Pulisic in the summer and early this month I guess maybe that was the guy he was pinning his hopes on).
Are we to assume that Liverpool are a one man team ? ;-)
More that Mane brings something to the team that nobody else in the squad can replicate to his standard.