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Reserve football isn't as valuable as no football at all?
And TFM doesn't need that match fitness? Of course it will make a difference gettting experience at any level will help and it's not like reserve football is a cake walk for him and there are some very competitive games even if you don't want to call it professional. We are near the bottom of the table needing wins and the games are taken seriously. Recent game against Southampton had Caceres, Hojberg, and Reed to name a few, all first team footballers. Going up against that midfield would be great experience. Week before Sunderland had Gooch and Kirchhoff. Again two first team players he could get experience against in still competitive matches. Whether called professional or not. So yes he could learn some things there and it would be a good experience.
Match fitness in U23 level is different with match fitness in professional level.
Before you call posters points stupid, get your facts right.
Match fitness is match fitness and yes he does need it. I'm not saying it is anything compared to first team football but he isn't getting any of that. It is certainly comparable to a first team training session and imo likely much more intense however much you want to say it is non serious. There are players playing for their careers and they are taking it more than serious.
First team training for top club is arguably more demanding, since you're doing a real job being partner/ opponent with player who make it in match day squad. Here top level who can still within catching distance to finish up to 2nd in the league. First team players without making matchday squad are still required to be professional & fulfill tactical assignment in training. You have players from lower intense leagues come into PL & got shocked just by intensity of first team training alone. Here the guy is given chance to learn, and if he keeps his head level, even if he needs to go on loan next season, he's learning thing that he can apply in long run that can help him: be top professional. This mat prove to boost his chance to succeed in getting a starting place in his loan club. Arguably in the past we did it wrong by making it easy for some players. They thought they made it & got this wrong attitude in their head even when coming out on loan to other clubs. This hinders them to get their playing time, which is a real useful first team playing experience. Talent is one thing. Applying your talent with right work ethnic is another. The latter also needs a lot of work as it's not natural gift, but learnt through experience, self sacrifice & discipline
Black Phil Jones but not as good as Phil was at the same age.
Nobbody is saying first team training isn't demanding or crucial. He can do both training with the first team and play with the U23s, maybe only occasionally. In fact every other club does that with their young players in the first team fringe, except for us this season. Southampton played McQueen and Sims in their last U23s games against us. We can clearly see how lack of match sharpness and confidence TFM is in his first team cameos this season.
Way way faster, better going forward and a better passer, but not as composed as Jones was at that age.
He hasn't given him games there. TFM has been playing as RB this season, IIRC he played only once as a midfielder and was all over the place. Mourinho said he didn't have any midfielders on the bench after the Boro game when TFM was on it.
He's not better going forward. When Jones played RB at the start of his United career he was regularly causing havoc with his constant runs and dribbling. He's faster but that's pretty much it.
He hasn't given him games there. TFM has been playing as RB this season, IIRC he got only one chance as a midfielder and was all over the place. Mourinho said he didn't have any midfielders on the bench after the Boro game when TFM was on it.
He is, every time he's played he has been pretty good going forwards, even getting at the end of chances only that he cant shoot at at all. Think he assisted vs Everton too. Jones is more like Shaw going forward, bombs forward with his strength and hence difficult to get off the ball, but the dribbling, skill, passing, crossing is very very limited.
Ah ok, I misunderstood your question
He is an absolute tank, pace strength and in particular acceleration to burn but needs a lot of work with his on the ball play. First name that pops to mind is Bakayoko from Monaco.
This is so not true. Watch the game against Bolton in Jones's first season. An inch perfect cross to assist Rooney first and an excellent dribble to assist his 2nd. Jones. He showed a lot more going forward and was very effective at the same age.
If you ask any supporter to come up with an example of Jones in the attacking sense, that's the one they'd come up with. It's the first moment that sprang to my mind and it was six years ago. Which should tell you what an exception that game was.
That's because he hasn't played at RB since Fergie left. He stopped playing there even before Fergie left in fact. There were a few other games he looked good in going forward as well (Chelsea was another one I think).
If that's the only reason we haven't seen more of Jones' attacking ability (I dont think it is) then the same could be said of TFM. He not only doesn't play fullback, he doesn't play at all.
Well obviously. I was making a comparison of them at similar ages and there's no basis to suggest that TFM is better going forward.
I don't think either of those statements are accurate. I'm sure LvG tried him in midfield although I can't remember the games and he absolutely did for the reserves. He played everywhere but centre forward.
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Thing is we use small squad this season, so every member of first team squad should be involved in training or we would have to use GK in outfield positions in training. Bastian first got back into first team through this very reason when we had some players missing out through injury. TFM seems to be deemed as first team material while not beat the competitor to be involved & get more minutes. U23 could happen in first team training day or even first team off day. As regular first team player TFM followed the first team schedule.
Cheers guys. Fosu-Mensah is a pretty cool name.
Jose doesn't see him as a midfielder ..seriously how many times are people going to moan about this?
How do you know? What evidence do you have?
More evidence than you have that he sees him as a midfielder, I'd imagine.
Only on a condition that the club plays him imo. If he's to go to some other club and sit on a bench, I'd rather we sent him either to Championship or abroad.
Every time he's played for us has been either RB or RM. I think once possibly he came on as a midfielder to close out a game, but that was more just to waste some minutes and add a bit of energy.
Against Northampton Jose played him as a right back.
