[OldTrevil]

Looking at the positive, Mourinho should now fully understand TFM to know whether he needs a loan next season or will be ready for more chances in a settled side.

 

[Jig1234]

Mourinho been moaning about the fixture list/lack of midfielders - Needs to give this man games. Bastian is gone, Pogba/Herrera (bans). Great time for Fosu to get a run in midfield.

 

[Special_One]

I'm not against playing the boy, no doubt, but reading through here it's as if his career is ruined because he has barely played this year. Nonsense.

Poor comparison I know, but Pogba wasn't playing regularly at his age, and I know he had to leave, but he was talented. He didn't get bags of playing time last year, really. He played 45 minutes or more only three times, and in the run of (mostly cameo) appearances that he did make, it was due to injuries where the likes of Joe Riley, Guillermo Varela and Donald Love filled in.

This season, he has played significant minutes against Zorya, where he looked bang average, and Wigan when he was barely tested. The rest were cameo appearances, one in particular where he looked good in Ukraine at Luhansk.

The fact is, he only has one minute of Premier League action for a reason. Valencia and Darmian (now more of a left-back) are his competition at right-back. We have six centre-halves if you include Blind and Tuanzebe. We have a plethora of midfielders, a position which we struggled to give Morgan Schneiderlin and Bastian Schweinsteiger a run out.

Mourinho knows what he's doing, the myth that he doesn't play youth quite frankly pisses me off. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Rashford is a shining example of that.

Unnecessary rant over.

 

[Nighteyes]

Bemuses me when people keep bringing him up in discussions about the CM positions. There were some who thought he was as good as Kante in preseason. The guy hasn't played a senior game in midfield and barely played as a CM once he moved up to the U21's. Jose (or any manager for that matter) is not going to stick a raw kid with questionable positional sense who's barely played at CM in midfield.

Should have gone out on loan though. My guess is Jose was surprised at how good Valencia was which has restricted his game time. Although I have to say I don't like him at RB in any case.

 

[AgentP]

Looking at the positive, Mourinho should now fully understand TFM to know whether he needs a loan next season or will be ready for more chances in a settled side.

I feel a loan would be best for both parties. It's only going to get harder to get into the team next year. Pereira's loan deal has done him a world of good and Tfm will benefit from a similar experience. Choosing the right club to go on a loan is crucial here. A bad decision will end up wasting a year of his career like what happened to Januzaj and plenty of others.

 

[AgentP]

Bemuses me when people keep bringing him up in discussions about the CM positions. There were some who thought he was as good as Kante in preseason. The guy hasn't played a senior game in midfield and barely played as a CM once he moved up to the U21's. Jose (or any manager for that matter) is not going to stick a raw kid with questionable positional sense who's barely played at CM in midfield.

Should have gone out on loan though. My guess is Jose was surprised at how good Valencia was which has restricted his game time. Although I have to say I don't like him at RB in any case.

I agree with this. When players cross into 30s, you don't know when their body will start deteriorating badly. Take Ivanovic for example, he was the best RB in the league two years ago but then his form suddenly nose-dived and now he's playing somewhere in Russia. Jose might have kept Tfm just in case something similar happens with Valencia. But Valencia has actually improved which is surprising to all of us. I was expecting Tfm to become second choice ahead of Darmian but sadly that didn't happen as well.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

TFM has the physical to match any decent players in the EPL, but tactics/mental side of the game, he is very much lacking. I am not sure which game that he had that cameo in midfield, but he looked lost, on whether to press or stand off against the player with the ball. Like I said, he has the necessary physical attributes to play in the league, but against well organised team, United would be easily ripped apart unlike the few seasons where any team can just walk through the non-existence midfield.

A loan move, to where he would get the playing time and experience, as well as learning the midfield trait (at least on the defending side) would do him good. Serie A perhaps?

 

[roonster09]

Bemuses me when people keep bringing him up in discussions about the CM positions. There were some who thought he was as good as Kante in preseason. The guy hasn't played a senior game in midfield and barely played as a CM once he moved up to the U21's. Jose (or any manager for that matter) is not going to stick a raw kid with questionable positional sense who's barely played at CM in midfield.

Should have gone out on loan though. My guess is Jose was surprised at how good Valencia was which has restricted his game time. Although I have to say I don't like him at RB in any case.

Did they? I thought people said he should be used like Kante, like a ball winner in the midfield.

 

[Nighteyes]

Did they? I thought people said he should be used like Kante, like a ball winner in the midfield.

There were definitely a couple of people who did think he was already as good.

 

[Dante]

Bemuses me when people keep bringing him up in discussions about the CM positions. There were some who thought he was as good as Kante in preseason. The guy hasn't played a senior game in midfield and barely played as a CM once he moved up to the U21's. Jose (or any manager for that matter) is not going to stick a raw kid with questionable positional sense who's barely played at CM in midfield.

Should have gone out on loan though. My guess is Jose was surprised at how good Valencia was which has restricted his game time. Although I have to say I don't like him at RB in any case.

TFM's done nothing yet to suggest he's good enough in reality. All the talk about throwing him into the team is based on how highly rated he is on various video games.

 

[Damien]

I'm not against playing the boy, no doubt, but reading through here it's as if his career is ruined because he has barely played this year. Nonsense.

Poor comparison I know, but Pogba wasn't playing regularly at his age, and I know he had to leave, but he was talented. He didn't get bags of playing time last year, really. He played 45 minutes or more only three times, and in the run of (mostly cameo) appearances that he did make, it was due to injuries where the likes of Joe Riley, Guillermo Varela and Donald Love filled in.

Pogba wasn't playing regularly for the first team but he still had over 1300 minutes for the reserves. Fosu-Mensah isn't even getting that.

Fosu-Mensah's stats last season compared to this season. The issue isn't so much that he isn't playing for the first team but he's not playing for any team at all.

 

[Quizierda]

With Bastian leaving + Pog and Herrera out it could be his chance to get at least a few minutes of play time.

He needs to prove his worth otherwise I can see him leaving (on loan) in the summer as he has shown that he can be a regular for United yet.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

All the talk about throwing him into the team is based on how highly rated he is on various video games.

I sold him on FM for £85m to Chelsea at the end of next season.

 

[Nighteyes]

TFM's done nothing yet to suggest he's good enough in reality. All the talk about throwing him into the team is based on how highly rated he is on various video games.

Yeah I'd agree with that. People got a bit giddy last season because he wasn't as shit as Darmian.

 

[Adam-Utd]

A loan move to a Tony Pulis side etc would do him a world of good. He needs game time and to learn tactics. Only proper match experience can teach him that.

 

[OldTrevil]

I feel a loan would be best for both parties. It's only going to get harder to get into the team next year. Pereira's loan deal has done him a world of good and Tfm will benefit from a similar experience. Choosing the right club to go on a loan is crucial here. A bad decision will end up wasting a year of his career like what happened to Januzaj and plenty of others.

By this point, if anything Jose should know what to do with him next season. A loan looks like the obvious way to get him game time, but you also have to remember not all players are suited for loans based on various factors that only people who work with him daily can know. Conditions to bring him in may also improve next season regardless of the added reinforcements, as the team will be more balanced and TFM may get or find it easier to get into a specific position. The point is if Mourinho decides to keep him and doesn't give him game time like this season, then he would be due some stronger criticism.

 

[AgentP]

By this point, if anything Jose should know what to do with him next season. A loan looks like the obvious way to get him game time, but you also have to remember not all players are suited for loans based on various factors that only people who work with him daily can know. Conditions to bring him in may also improve next season regardless of the added reinforcements, as the team will be more balanced and TFM may get or find it easier to get into a specific position. The point is if Mourinho decides to keep him and doesn't give him game time like this season, then he would be due some stronger criticism.

I think the main problem now is that no one seems to know his best position. A young versatile player needs to play a lot to figure out where he'll realize his full potential. Jose and Tfm have to identify his best position and then decide if he'll be able to get enough chances in that role. For example, if they decide he will play RB, then he'll have a good chance to play next season as Darmian and Young will most likely leave. But if his position is DM or CB, it would be better for him to go out on loan.

 

[OldTrevil]

I think the main problem now is that no one seems to know his best position. A young versatile player needs to play a lot to figure out where he'll realize his full potential. Jose and Tfm have to identify his best position and then decide if he'll be able to get enough chances in that role. For example, if they decide he will play RB, then he'll have a good chance to play next season as Darmian and Young will most likely leave. But if his position is DM or CB, it would be better for him to go out on loan.

His best position is for sure a major issue. I also don't think Mourinho considers him a midfielder of any sorts and if TFM sees himself differently then that is another big issue as it's clear he hasn't convinced the manager enough in training.

 

[Fracture90]

Even tho he's training with the first team, he isn't playing for youth team, isn't getting minutes in the first team either.

That's no good for his development and don't see how anything will change this season with the difficulty of the games we have down the line.

If we nuke Anderlecht 4/5:0 than I can see him maybe getting some minutes in the rematch, but other than that, highly unlikely.

He has Young and Darmian coming in the RB/RWB position, Fellaini and Carrick behind Herrera and Pogba in CMF/DMF position.

Loan would do him good next season, especially considering that Fellaini is likely to stay and that Mourinho will buy more MF players.

 

[Sammyjunn]

That he's done nothing isnt true as well, go and rewatch Arsenal home and Spurs if last season, he showed what he's capable of but he is still too raw.

 

[2mufc0]

Should go out on loan, he needs minutes.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Pogba wasn't playing regularly for the first team but he still had over 1300 minutes for the reserves. Fosu-Mensah isn't even getting that.

Fosu-Mensah's stats last season compared to this season. The issue isn't so much that he isn't playing for the first team but he's not playing for any team at all.

This.

I get Jose needed to understand squad (though as a Premier League manager last season, he'd have a basic idea on them?) and I get he may not feel TFM is ready for many first team appearances (though still think he could have had more minutes that his 3-4 appearances have given).... what I don't get is why not let him play U23 or on loan.

Training with the first team has its advantages for a young player but I can't see them offsetting actual playing time as this would be easiest way for him to get match practice, improve decision-making and possibly show his best position (or show he's not right for Jose/club and consider if needs to move on).

 

[dichinero]

Pogba wasn't playing regularly for the first team but he still had over 1300 minutes for the reserves. Fosu-Mensah isn't even getting that.

Fosu-Mensah's stats last season compared to this season. The issue isn't so much that he isn't playing for the first team but he's not playing for any team at all.

It's so hard for people to understand this

 

[Raees]

Wasted an entire season of development. Just don't understand United's thinking some times.

 

[Special_One]

Pogba wasn't playing regularly for the first team but he still had over 1300 minutes for the reserves. Fosu-Mensah isn't even getting that.

Fosu-Mensah's stats last season compared to this season. The issue isn't so much that he isn't playing for the first team but he's not playing for any team at all.

Reserve football isn't as valuable, sure, it helps with match sharpness and what not, and I do take that point. But he's still only a kid, I'm sure if Mourinho thought he could benefit the team, then he'd play.

It is also well-known under Mourinho that if you are training with the first team, you won't play for the U23. Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Pereira support that.

 

[lsd]

If Jose doesn't see him as a midfielder why on earth would he give him games there ?

 

[khoazany]

Reserve football isn't as valuable, sure, it helps with match sharpness and what not, and I do take that point. But he's still only a kid, I'm sure if Mourinho thought he could benefit the team, then he'd play.

It is also well-known under Mourinho that if you are training with the first team, you won't play for the U23. Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Pereira support that.

And it's exactly one of the problems with Mourinho and young player's development. How can you progress as a footballer if you don't play football?

 

[dichinero]

Reserve football isn't as valuable, sure, it helps with match sharpness and what not, and I do take that point. But he's still only a kid, I'm sure if Mourinho thought he could benefit the team, then he'd play.

It is also well-known under Mourinho that if you are training with the first team, you won't play for the U23. Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Pereira support that.

This is 2017, 19 at the top end of football is no longer a kid. You'd hardly find an 18 year old in top club that isn't playing some sort of regular football, unless they are injured. Reserve football isn't as valuable, based on what? He was an unnamed sub for 11 games, you didn't think some reserve games would have helped.

You've cited Rashford and Pereira, both have played a decent number of first team football this season so I don't know how TFM fits into that.

 

[Damien]

Reserve football isn't as valuable, sure, it helps with match sharpness and what not, and I do take that point. But he's still only a kid, I'm sure if Mourinho thought he could benefit the team, then he'd play.

It is also well-known under Mourinho that if you are training with the first team, you won't play for the U23. Rashford, Fosu-Mensah and Pereira support that.

Rashford's played over 2000 minutes with the first team this season and Pereira is out on loan getting regular football. Fosu-Mensah isn't playing any sort of football except for training which isn't good. He's not going to improve or develop when he isn't even playing with the U23s.

 

[Duafc]

Rashford's played over 2000 minutes with the first team this season and Pereira is out on loan getting regular football. Fosu-Mensah isn't playing any sort of football except for training which isn't good. He's not going to improve or develop when he isn't even playing with the U23s.

I'd argue training with the first team would be more beneficial to a young player than playing games at u23 level.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I'd argue training with the first team would be more beneficial to a young player than playing games at u23 level.

And you can do both like Tuanzebe does or like TFM did last year. I'd argue an u23 game is more beneficial than missing one training session on a Monday.

 

[Damien]

I'd argue training with the first team would be more beneficial to a young player than playing games at u23 level.

Like limerick said it is possible to do both. It isn't an either or choice and I think the player would rather have, say, 1300 reserve minutes, 200 first team minutes and 80-90% training time with first team than just 200 first team minutes and full training with first team all season.

 

[Duafc]

And you can do both like Tuanzebe does or like TFM did last year. I'd argue an u23 game is more beneficial than missing one training session on a Monday.

Yeah grand.

But I responded to Damien, who said "Fosu Mensah isn't playing any kind of football except for training which isn't good, he's not going to improve or develop when he isn't even playing with the U23s"

I firmly believe a young player is more likely to improve and develop training with top level first team players, even if he's not getting game time, than by playing for the U23s.

Whilst it is frustrating that he hasn't had minutes, (I think he could have had 45 mins in any number of games this season and don't think he would have let us down), he is clearly rated by Mourinho in that he has clearly been made part of the first team squad, notable by his complete absence from reserve football.

He'll either break into the team or go on loan, I think if he was truly pulling up trees we'd have seen more of him, and it may just be the case that he doesn't warrant inclusion over other players in the squad. Just being young and having potential doesn't give you the automatic right to displace other players, like some here clamour for. I'm quite happy for Jose and his staff to make that decision, given they are the ones watching him week in week out and not just pontificating on things they have very little information about on Redcafe, a la Mkhi, Martial, Shaw, Rooney etc etc etc.

 

[Damien]

Yeah grand.

But I responded to Damien, who said "Fosu Mensah isn't playing any kind of football except for training which isn't good, he's not going to improve or develop when he isn't even playing with the U23s"

I firmly believe a young player is more likely to improve and develop training with top level first team players, even if he's not getting game time, than by playing for the U23s.

Whilst it is frustrating that he hasn't had minutes, (I think he could have had 45 mins in any number of games this season and don't think he would have let us down), he is clearly rated by Mourinho in that he has clearly been made part of the first team squad, notable by his complete absence from reserve football.

He'll either break into the team or go on loan, I think if he was truly pulling up trees we'd have seen more of him, and it may just be the case that he doesn't warrant inclusion over other players in the squad. Just being young and having potential doesn't give you the automatic right to displace other players, like some here clamour for. I'm quite happy for Jose and his staff to make that decision, given they are the ones watching him week in week out and not just pontificating on things they have very little information about on Redcafe, a la Mkhi, Martial, Shaw, Rooney etc etc etc.

Different circumstances though isn't it? Doubt training can fully replicate the conditions of a 90 minute game of football against another team with players of different skillsets.

 

[Duafc]

Like limerick said it is possible to do both. It isn't an either or choice and I think the player would rather have, say, 1300 reserve minutes, 200 first team minutes and 80-90% training time with first team than just 200 first team minutes and full training with first team all season.

I think if you're letting all of our players decide how much they play based on what they would most like, you've lost it.

It's a competitive football club for Pete's sake. Also, see above.

 

[Duafc]

Different circumstances though isn't it? Doubt training can fully replicate the conditions of a 90 minute game of football against another team with players of different skillsets.

No, but he's had 11 odd years of match practice, I reckon he's familiar with how it goes.

Defending against Ibra, in training or playing alongside Carrick, in drills and training games will improve a player more in my opinion. You're never playing against those skill sets in the U23s.

If the U23s was such a good place to develop and improve why do we see so very very few make the first team? In fact correct me if I'm wrong but the majority don't even go on to Premier League careers.

 

[Mike09]

Training with first team is obviously better than training with U23. Players can improve in technical attributes by training with the likes top or experience players like Zlatan, Carrick, Pogba and etc. But in order to improve his mentally attributes as a footballer, he needs to play a lot of professional games. He has to go on loan next season. Play him or loan him out.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Training with first team is obviously better than training with U23. Players can improve in technical attributes by training with the likes top or experience players like Zlatan, Carrick, Pogba and etc. But in order to improve his mentally attributes as a footballer, he needs to play a lot of professional games. He has to go on loan next season. Play him or loan him out.

Well yea but no one is saying he should train with the u23s. Just play with them.

 

[Special_One]

And it's exactly one of the problems with Mourinho and young player's development. How can you progress as a footballer if you don't play football?

That's not a question for me to answer.

This is 2017, 19 at the top end of football is no longer a kid. You'd hardly find an 18 year old in top club that isn't playing some sort of regular football, unless they are injured. Reserve football isn't as valuable, based on what? He was an unnamed sub for 11 games, you didn't think some reserve games would have helped.

You've cited Rashford and Pereira, both have played a decent number of first team football this season so I don't know how TFM fits into that.

19 is a kid in any walk of life, mate. There are 18 year old who don't play regular football, stupid point. Reserve football isn't as valuable because often times you play once a month and the games aren't competitive.

I've cited Rashford and Pereira by saying that if they TRAIN with the first team, the don't PLAY for the reserves, if you'd have read it properly. Also, I meant Joel Pereira, who has 10 minutes of first-team action at United this season.

Rashford's played over 2000 minutes with the first team this season and Pereira is out on loan getting regular football. Fosu-Mensah isn't playing any sort of football except for training which isn't good. He's not going to improve or develop when he isn't even playing with the U23s.

Rashford in U23 years of age, yet trains with the first team and doesn't play with the reserves. JOEL Pereira, has 10 minutes of game time and doesn't play for the reserves if involved in first team training.

How isn't he? It's not like he won't develop training with top class players, coaches and facilities. Naive to think otherwise.

Like limerick said it is possible to do both. It isn't an either or choice and I think the player would rather have, say, 1300 reserve minutes, 200 first team minutes and 80-90% training time with first team than just 200 first team minutes and full training with first team all season.

Again, not for me to answer, it's Mourinho's way of doing things.

 

[Mike09]

Well yea but no one is saying he should train with the u23s. Just play with them.

Playing with U23 won't make any difference with what Fosu Mensah is doing right now. What he's going to achieve by playing with U23?
Experience for playing in a non professional football match? Why do player need to gain that to go to next level? The feeling is obviously different playing with U23 and first team.
Managers tend to use U23 just for match fitness so the players is ready to play at least above 60 mins. First team training especially in the middle of the season is harder than playing games for U23 level that is not even in professional or serious match.