How anyone can be happy about giving another mediocre player a big pay rise when you look at how much we're already wasting, I don't know. I don't understand some fans attitudes that it's fine to pay more than any other club because we earn more than them. Just look at that table above, are we getting value for money from our squad? Absolutely not. Massively overpaid and nowhere near good enough, that sums up our squad. I want this madness to stop, but it seems it's not going to.Everyone pays tax.
This is from Daily mail article in November 2016.
Lingard signs new £100k 4 year contract (Sky) | Official: Option to extend for a further year
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Blimey, if the £75,000 + £25,000 reports are true - that's more than triple of what someone like Insigne is earning on his current deal, and 1.5 times what he's demanding on his new 'mega deal'. The Premier League is really distorting the football market when the likes of Sunderland have comparable revenues to a Champions League level club in Napoli. Wouldn't be surprised if Rashford wants to renegotiate to £100,000+ per week in the near future - rising to Harry Kane level with Champions League bonus. I mean, it's not my money (or so some like to point out - even though technically - us fans support the whole structure with escalating subscription fee and ticket fee and associated merchandise, and so forth), so whatever, I guess - but this is kinda why we often struggle to offload our players without subsidizing their wages. Also, the collective Champions League qualification escalator is quite daft - if you want to motivate the player, it makes more sense to include individual targets - like minutes played, a certain numbers of goals scored, total appearances in certain competitions - those are better markers for the player's contribution to the team. It isn't even about giving him X amount of money - but setting a precedent for future deals by paying over the odds (especially when the players have more leverage and can push our buttons).
But seriously - with the amount of money we make, does it really matter if Lingard makes £3 or £5 million a year ? Does he deserve £100.000 a week ? Does it matter ? Wages in percentage of the income are still extremely low at this club
You can't seriously compare a squad player at United with a squad player at Stoke ?
Lingard is still only making 1/3 of what the best players at the club are earning. Yes he makes a lot of money - but he plays for a club who can afford to pay the best wages. Call him lucky for being here, but if you play for United you don't earn £20.000 a week unless you are nowhere near the firstteam
100% agree and now we have no chance of moving Lingard on we are practically stuck with a player who struggle to get a game at West Brom.
Err. No? Which is why I haven't...
We've also got one of the lowest Wages/Turnover ratios.
Sorry I meant to write a more detailed post here, but decided against it. Forgot to delete what redcafe had saved when replying to the other one.
Wages have gone ridiculous but im glad he's got a new contract. If he wasnt home grown id be more dismayed but its to our advantage to keep these players so a premium perhaps should be expected.
Hyperbole much? Lingard would start for West Brom too.
Same thing is said about every squad player at ManUt but when they go to midtable they will be key players at the club.
I'm not sure. I don't know how Premier League negotiations on contracts work. Lets not pretend any of us do either. You can not say for a fact none of them would offer him that money nor can I say they would.
Speculation on other player wages in the premier league suggests many would give a player of his ability similar money though.
So if the headline had been that we've just bought a young England international with PL experience and some matchwinning goals to his name, would people be so critical? Now if we added that his total cost, transfer fee + wages, would be £15m, rising to £20m with bonuses, we'd think it was a very reasonable option for the club.
Now throw in the fact we're low on club trained and homegrown players, the contract renewal makes sense, for us and him. It's a gamble, so are all signings and all contracts. We're making a commitment to him based on what the manager thinks he will do. That's what we do every time we sign a player.
Now throw in the fact we're low on club trained and homegrown players, the contract renewal makes sense, for us and him. It's a gamble, so are all signings and all contracts. We're making a commitment to him based on what the manager thinks he will do. That's what we do every time we sign a player.
He's also average as hell. What's Delli Alli get? He's worth half of that TOPS
Alot of the same fans saying it's a great deal are the ones who massively overrate our players, and wonder why we keep missing the Champions League.
Why do anyone moan about a little extra expenditure (not even extra. We have sold Memphis and the Schmidfielders so we have probably reduced wages overall). The way you moan one would think united are suddenly going bankrupt making it difficult for us to continue functioning
While i get your point, but i think a lot of fans are getting really frustrated with the way the club is being run at the moment. We've probably spent the most money in the league on fees and wages since 2013 and have nothing to show for it. And imo giving average players like Lingard these sort of wages appears a continuation of this trend. Overpaid and average is one way you can describe the club.
For me it's not about the money, If DDG were to sign a £300k contract tomorrow i highly doubt any of the fans would bat an eyelid as he's the type of quality that we should be spending the money on and investing in, not Lingard lvl players.
That isn't a fair comparison as you don't know how a new signing will settle in and perform. We already know everything about Lingard, he's had nearly two full seasons in the first team now and will be 25 by the end of the year. But to turn your examples on its head, if Arsenal/Spurs/City/Chelsea/Liverpool had just bought Lingard from us and were paying him 100k a week I really doubt their fans would be happy about it.
It isn't about bankrupting the club, it's about paying players what they deserve. Lingard has 3 assists all season and mostly average performances so we give him a huge payrise, this is how players become complacent. He hasn't had to be exceptional at all to be rewarded. We're paying players huge amounts to battle for 5th place.
Things like these don't happen in a vaccuum. The next squad player United negotiate with will say: if Lingard is getting 5m a year I want the same!
You keep mentioning that statistic. Here's another one. He creates chances at the second highest rate (every 36 minutes) of everyone in our squad. He is also the only player to score in both of our last two cup finals.
Means nothing. Getting what they deserve is a phrase that's extinct in football. Wilshere gets more than Alli even though he has done nothing for years. Rashford earns 25k whereas batshuayi apparently earns 70k even though he is worse. We need HG players with many expected to leave which means lingard suddenly became more valuable than he is.
He barely plays and this is unlikely to make him a starter. And his chance creation stats hardly seem bad when you compare it to our regulars.
He's been a late bloomer. Hopefully, he'll carry on improving enough over the years to justify the contract. United should never have got rid of Welbeck, Keane, Zaha and Rafael and then purchasing mediocre players as replacements. A lot of our transfer dealings since Gill left have been nothing short of suicidal.
To be fair to Mourinho, he's been spot on so far in the transfer market.
To be fair to Mourinho, he's been spot on so far in the transfer market.
What have these gentlemen done since leaving United? The best of the lot is Keane but he plays for Burnley.
Mou was spot on in his transfer market and I am not against keeping Lingard. However 100k a week for a squad player at best is pure lunacy. No wonder why we've got the highest salary bill in the world with very few trophies to show for it.
Lingard is now stuck to OT in the same way Young and Fellaini are. No one will give a squad player a 100k a week.
Our attack is garbage and has under performed all season. Comparisons within itself are meaningless. Mata and Mkhitaryan haven't been productive enough either. How about you compare Lingard's output to the wingers at Spurs/Chelsea/City instead? The teams actually challenging for the league not challenging for 5th.
And here take a look at this
Lingard is miles down by the way with a huge 5.6. You can argue he's just not a favourite and people are harsh on him but it's accurate, he has been ordinary this season. To suggest he has been one of our best players would be a lie. Yet he's now one of our highest paid players. If he had an amazing season no one would be complaining.
Its not about Lingard, its about giving ridiculous salary to players who clearly do not deserve it. I would have said pretty much the same thing if we gave Ibra a 5 year contract on 400k a week and that despite him being our best player.
If you think about it, its damaging both player and club. From the club's POV we're ending up paying loads of salary for players who clearly aren't good for us. For the player's POV he's now stuck with United irrespective on what happens in his career because no one will ever give him that salary.
I think we need to see squad players as temps. They remain at the club only until we find someone better either from outside the club or from within (ie youths). If we manage to get a young top quality winger then good luck getting rid of Lingard on a 100k a week.
If you think about it, its damaging both player and club. From the club's POV we're ending up paying loads of salary for players who clearly aren't good for us. For the player's POV he's now stuck with United irrespective on what happens in his career because no one will ever give him that salary.
I think we need to see squad players as temps. They remain at the club only until we find someone better either from outside the club or from within (ie youths). If we manage to get a young top quality winger then good luck getting rid of Lingard on a 100k a week.
Haha, Caf ratings are as subjective as anything in this world. I'm pretty sure we're in top 3 in created chances in the league, so Lingard is probably pretty high up the list compared to the attacking midfielders of our rivals.Our attack is garbage and has under performed all season. Comparisons within itself are meaningless. Mata and Mkhitaryan haven't been productive enough either. How about you compare Lingard's output to the wingers at Spurs/Chelsea/City instead? The teams actually challenging for the league not challenging for 5th.
And here take a look at this
Lingard is miles down by the way with a huge 5.6. You can argue he's just not a favourite and people are harsh on him but it's accurate, he has been ordinary this season. To suggest he has been one of our best players would be a lie. Yet he's now one of our highest paid players. If he had an amazing season no one would be complaining.
Yeah, uhm this is ridiculous. Surely we can't keep wasting money like this? 100k a week for a flat line mediocre player is ridiculous. We can't justify ever missing out on a player due to wage demands if this is the sort of stuff we do. How can we have the biggest wage bill in europe when we're so so far away from being the best club in europe.
We've been garbage at finishing chances. We've missed more "big chances" than any other team in the league. In terms of creating chances we're right up there. More chances created than City, Arsenal or Chelsea (with games in hand over the only teams ahead of us, Spurs and Liverpool) So if Lingard is creating chances more frequently than all but one of his team-mates he's clearly doing something right and he'd look a lot better, in terms of assists, if our attackers were a bit more capable of hitting a cow's arse with a banjo (and yes, he's guilty of missed chances himself).
Players ratings are biased nonsense. Any player who keeps another popular player out of the team always gets harshly treated. FWIW, Lingard has had some poor games this season. He's been inconsistent, like a lot of our attacking players. I also think he's been as good as any of them on his day and generally been a key player for us in almost all of our really impressive performances this season. With stats to back that opinion up.And here take a look at this
Lingard is miles down by the way with a huge 5.6. You can argue he's just not a favourite and people are harsh on him but it's accurate, he has been ordinary this season. To suggest he has been one of our best players would be a lie. Yet he's now one of our highest paid players. If he had an amazing season no one would be complaining.
He's also a local lad, loyal to the club, has come up through the ranks since he was in primary school and should be someone we're all delighted to see pull on the shirt. I just don't get why so many people feel so negative about him. This club will be a lot less connected to the match-going fans the day we start lining up without players like Jesse in our team, that's for damn sure.
Welbeck is just coming back from a serious injury.
Welbeck = Falcao
Rafael = Darmian
Zaha= Depay
Keane = He's kept other mediocre centre-halves at the club.
I'm not saying they would be starters. Ideal squad players. All academy products bar Zaha.
I think it's a fair argument that none of those players were good enough for us and they've all proven that since they left. Although you could argue with Welbeck and Rafael that injuries are part of the reason why.
I also think it will be proven to be the same with Lingard, except the problem is we've done a Cleverley and given him more lucrative wages than any club his actual level as a player will match for him, so we'll struggle to offload him. A bit like why we're still saddled with Ashley fecking Young five years later.
Absolutely.
Better local players will come through, we should field players because they are upto the standard not because they are local.
Well I think he is up to the standard, despite his inconsistent performances this season. As per the stats I posted above. The club obviously think so too.
He's a good squad player imo and i think that's crux of the issue.
I've said it before but in a few years time this will end up just like another Ashley Young situation.
I've no issue with Ashley Young's contribution since he came to United. He's had a fantastic attitude and has been a hard-working and versatile player. The likes of him and Lingard will always come under less scrutiny if the big stars of the team are performing at the level required. But they generally haven't, which has been a big problem for us, going back several years. If/when the team is being carried by a few world class players then Lingard can act as a valuable squad player to help us cope better with huge number of games we play each season. Which is something that is always needed at a club like Manchester United.
Genuine question, what 'standard' do you think he's up to?
Squad player, potential first team player?
If it's the former, then surely the contract we've just given him is a bit.. nuts?
You're mixing one thing (ie our pre Mourinho horrible transfer record) to a totally unrelated subject (ie players not being good enough). You're also ignoring important factors like the player's will, their injury track record and in Keane's case how much regular first team football had improved him as a the player.
a- Welbeck left because he wanted regular first team football and he wanted to play as a STK. His goalscoring record at both United and Arsenal show that he wasn't good enough for that.
b- Rafael was injury prone.
c- Zaha's larger then life attitude caused him to leave United. He signed with us far too early in his career and he needed to go back to where he came from to mature both as a player and as a person.
d- Keane would have never got the games he got at Burnley with United. Throughout SAF's reign, we were only able to develop one top quality regular first teamer defender (Gaz). We need to acknowledge that United is not the best place for young defenders to be.
The issue here is different. The argument is whether we should give 100k a week to a squad player at best. In my opinion, we shouldn't.
a- because he isn't worth a 100k a week
b- it will encourage other squad players to ask the same amount of dosh
c- it will be almost impossible to get rid off him now. We have yet another Young/Fellaini situation on our hands.
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Young hasn't made any substantial contributions to the team since his contract renewal. Since then he's been sitting on his arse collected 110k a week while the club struggle to offload him.
The former, definitely. I don't know much about footballer's wages and don't think we've had any confirmation re exactly what he's being offered anyway. Isn't the 100k figure in the thread title just speculations?
He's played a number of good games as a fullback/wingback.
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