As much as I rate De Bruyne and as good as Eriksen is in Spurs' system, no. I think Pogba's ceiling, so to speak, is higher than the two. It would be interesting to see how the two you mentioned would do or have done for us last season being in such a transition.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Any day pogba over kdb or eriksen. He was already seen playing with more freedom with matic as his partner. I think this will be the season where pogba shows he is the true boss.
Pogba or Eriksen? You possibly can't be serious. One moved to Juventus at 18 and immediately became a mainstay in their midfield, proved himself in the champions league, was named in FIFPRO FIFA best XI in 2015, the other is a good player who has done sweet FA for Spurs. It's such a difficult decision.
Isn't what you describe in the second quote exactly what a top CM's productivity is about (and testimony of Pogba's obvious football ability as well)? It seems to me that you reduce a playmaking CM's abilities and productivity to scoring goals, or am I misreading this?
The way we played 3-5-2 tonight is a more defensive one. I'd like too see the more offensive one with only two centre midfielders and then a player behind the two strikers.
---------------Back three
Valencia----Matic----Pogba----Darmian
---------------Mkhitaryan
-----------Lukaku----Martial
I feel this is the way we would get the most out of Pogba. Dictating the play. Bossing and controlling that midfield along with a more defensive minded Matic.
Edit:
Pogba has got more to his game than just scoring goals and making assists. Sure, I'd like him to score and assist more (as I bet he himself would also like), but I think he's offering us more than just that. His composure on the ball is great. Look at the pre-season game against Barca as an example, and you'll see what services he brings to the rest of the team. Having that kind of player against a team like that is great to have, and something we've been missing these past years.
---------------Back three
Valencia----Matic----Pogba----Darmian
---------------Mkhitaryan
-----------Lukaku----Martial
I feel this is the way we would get the most out of Pogba. Dictating the play. Bossing and controlling that midfield along with a more defensive minded Matic.
Edit:
Pogba has got more to his game than just scoring goals and making assists. Sure, I'd like him to score and assist more (as I bet he himself would also like), but I think he's offering us more than just that. His composure on the ball is great. Look at the pre-season game against Barca as an example, and you'll see what services he brings to the rest of the team. Having that kind of player against a team like that is great to have, and something we've been missing these past years.
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He was quite poor at the Aviva tonight. The one thing he does well is pinging a ball 50 yards with near perfect accuracy.
That's a great skill to have, along with his physicality, good shots and general midfield play.
The things he failed to show tonight. His shooting is awful. Another Row Z effort amongst his bag.
I have now doubts he will come big this season with Magic covering his back.
10-12 goals and double figures for assists are all that I ask of him, as well as some good general play in the big games.
That's almost OM numbers. I'll be happy with combined 15-16 points in PL and bossing the midfield. If he could do well with Marchisio and Khedira, he should do well with Herrera and Matic.
Oops sorry, misread
Not bad today but not particularly good either. Some nice long passes but really didn't make any key passes. Lost the ball a couple of times by dwelling on it a bit too long but won it back both times also. Excellent pre-season from him overall. Hope to see a great performance against Madrid.
Many true elite namely Modric, Iniesta don't score that many. They have been superior by creating more chance, controlling the game, but in Modric case , he didn't always have that edge when he was at the age Pogba now. Iniesta had the stability of Barcelona while Pogba had the first season as our first team player.
Many players before a great season didn't do too well in pre season. Pre season for most is to getting back into shape & practice games regardless opponent's tactic, which means playing more individually naturally than well drilled. It's not unfamiliar where young players with great enthusiasm & indivual talent to have promising looking pre season until the real thing comes & reality kicks in that tactical astute players despite their flaw in technical ability is more useful. Using preseason to judge efficiency is very quite difficult.
I agree.
Pogba is better in a deeper position that allows him to push forward with freedom. Playing next to Matic will allow that more.
Yes he played on the left side in a 3-5-2 at Juve, but they had Alex Sandro/Evra bombing forward passed him at every opportunity. We have Blind/Darmian who are nowhere near the same level going forward.
That means Pogba is isolated and always cutting in on his right foot, that makes him predictable.
No he isn't it has been clear in many threads, AP88 has literally spent most of his time shitting on Pogba at every opportunity, a glance through his post history will show you such. He has already claimed on many occasions that Dembele is a better player than Pogba.
Pogba does not match many existing players in the world so comparing stats to prove a point will always miss this, yes Eriksen creates more chances, but he also has no effect on the defensive areas of midfield. Dembele has similar defensive stats but literally no offensice ability, but AP88 will compare him to players who simply do not compare by using those opposite stats.
I wasn't speaking of central midfielders in general, I was talking about Paul Pogba specifically. The posts following mine speaks of this higher ceiling that he has compared to other players. This is clearly a subjective term, reflects his obvious potential and it is one that I agree with when compared to other players of his ilk. In order for him to reach that ceiling, in my opinion in addition to what he has already brought to the team, he needs to score/create more goals. This is what I think he is capable of and the type of player that we all want to see. Whether it will happen in reality remains to be seen. This is what I meant by underwhelming in the context of Pogba's obvious individual capabilities as a footballer.
With Neymar now being the most expensive player, I hope this helps our Pogba.
Obviously he still is under pressure to perform, but the narrative has changed.
Obviously he still is under pressure to perform, but the narrative has changed.
Think he was sitting too deep last night. Still getting used to Matic I guess. I would like to see him more advanced and more centrally.
I get what you say and I agree that he still has quite some potential to be developed (which is remarkable, as I thought that he was excellent last season overall). I just find it hard to understand how not equally shining in two roles at once in a debut season can be called 'underwhelming', especially since you recognize the impact he had as a playmaking CM.
What's funny is that last season Pogba got simultaneously slated for not doing the simple things (which is absolutely untrue imo) and also not doing enough outrageous things. So to satisfy everyone, he'd have to carry the team as a disciplined world class playmaking CM and an all-out world class goalscoring AM at once. Others have pointed out that this is more than any current midfielder in the world does. It sounds like the immature, manga-style dream of a perfect midfielder, but the crazy thing is that prime Pogba may be able to do so to an extent. I still think there are objective limits to doing both at once, as a CM simply needs a lot of discipline in positioning and passing choices, while an AM needs more freedom to try risky stuff (and potentially lose possession). His balance between these two elements is already very, very good in my opinion.
As for creating more goals: he can only create chances, and he did that a lot last season in a team that struggled to do so otherwise (no.1 at Utd & among PL CMs, depending on how one sorts Fabregas). It was subpar finishing that prevented him from getting a large number of assists.
So I generally see where you're coming from, and it's a subjective matter after all, as you said. I just think it's a bit odd how notoriously dissatisfied fans can come across while having such an exciting player in their team.
He's doing a Q&A in 3 minutes on twitter if anyone's interested
Good to hear
Ì thought he couldn't be
3-5-2 with Darmian makes no sense as too much responsability would be on his shoulders in terms of width and running up and down the flank and he's more than defensive than offensive.
Have you seen how many miles Eriksen covers in a game?
The point I'm making is he's not better than specialist midfielders at anything, he's simply a failing hybrid and a tactical misfit.
The point is both of those players have the capacity to dictate the tempo of an entire game, like Scholes did. Eriksen, the few times he moved deeper for Spurs last season, literally did the same. Pogba's instinct is a 50 yard pass, which is possessional roulette; you can't dominate a game like that. Matic understands football, hence his performance the other night eclipsing anything Pogba has churned out in a United shirt.
I think Eriksen will evolve into that kind of player by default eventually; if I was Tottenham, I'd drop him deeper in European ties to allow him to manipulate the pace of the game, something they have struggled with outside the Premier League.
Mourinho loves a 4-2-3-1; at the base of that midfield, Herrera's tenacity and Matic's tactical intelligence and metronomic passing compliment each other perfectly, and could be the platform for a successful team. Either one plus Pogba is less secure and functional.
So do you preserve that solidarity and shoehorn Pogba in further forward? The question is where. Is he a better #10 than Mkhi or Mata? Is he a better wide left forward than Martial or potentially Perisic? No. The right wing isn't an option either.
Say Bale
/eventually Griezmann arrives, they'll probably be given a free role behind Lukaku, with Lingard, Mata, Mkhi, Rashford and Martial all grafting to occupy the wide positions. Where does Pogba go?
4-3-3 maybe, but again that compromises creativity in the final third, something that was already a huge issue last season.
I can't see any valid method of maximising Pogba's potential without compromising the functionality of the team;it's the team that will win the league, not Pogba. I don't think he's worth it.
That 90m is gonna look cheap cause he's the Neymar of CM imo. The only utd player that would automatically go into any team in the worlds starting 11 tmw.
Pogba has a very high pass completion percentage for a creative midfielder (better than Eriksen), and is far more involved in his team's build up play than Eriksen and Matic. Oh, and he averages a shorter pass length than both of them as well. You're basically wrong on every count.
Not sure why you guys are even bothered with that 88 guy.
Not sure he'd walk into Madrid, but they are the lone exception (would have to beat out Modric or Kroos). De Gea is just as close, with Munich being the only debatable situation. Either way, I think this season is the year he cements himself as a guy who can walk into any team in the world and emerges as one of the absolute best players in the EPL making the team of the year and in contention for PFA player of the year.
It seems most CM's take a bit longer to reach their peak, and I can't think of anyone younger than him who I would even consider replacing him with, and most of the guys who are comparable are a couple years older outside of Verratti. There is Delle Alli but he seems to play further up the pitch more often, generally as the middle attacker in a 4-2-3-1. Past that there are some interesting players, but most seem to only really have a smaller history to fall back on than Pogba and in my opinion are quite up to his level like Saul Niguez (who I would love to have). Then there is that next wave of wonder kids who the jury is still out on as they step up in competition quality such as Youri Tielmans and Richely Boezer. Finally, there is Thiago who is a bit older but constantly injured, and Kante, both at least 2 seasons ahead development wise, and didn't fully emerge as top players until they were older than Pogba.
I could easily be forgetting some key people, but it seems most of the players you could argue for being better are 3 to 4 years older and didn't hit their peak until they were older than Pogba such as Modric, Kroos, Vidal, etc. Long-term though, I don't think there is a CM in the world I would take over Pogba, especially in the all-action role of a #8. The only guy who makes me think is Verratti, who is more of a deep lying playmaker.
It's all about opinions but imho Pogba is head and shoulders above both today. If we had to sell Pogba tmw, we are getting our money back plus interest. At no time in any of those careers where those players of the standing to be the most expensive player in the world. Real sign him tomorrow, he walks straight into that team for football and commercial reasons.
Pogba controlling Rashford when he hits the bar. Even in FIFA he's cursed.Now that we have Matic and Carrick to play the no 4 defensive midfield position, will Pogba play the no 8 box to box role or no 10 attacking midfielder role?
Or will he interchange with Herrera depending on their positions at any particular moment?
How did he excel at Juventus or with France?
When he did well last season, I saw glimpses of Zidane type play, and we need 12-15 goals from him if we are to challenge for the league. So I'm hoping Mourinho lessons his defensive responsibilities and plays him as an AM at no 10.
Or will he interchange with Herrera depending on their positions at any particular moment?
How did he excel at Juventus or with France?
When he did well last season, I saw glimpses of Zidane type play, and we need 12-15 goals from him if we are to challenge for the league. So I'm hoping Mourinho lessons his defensive responsibilities and plays him as an AM at no 10.
I don't think we will have a typical 10. He'll be asked to put in a defensive shift, but he'll have less responsibility than Herrera who will be asked to be the energy in midfield. It looks like most of the time we will be lining up in a 4-3-3, so you would think when looking at how Mourinho used the 4-3-3 in his first go around with Chelsea, Matic will have the Makelele role, Herrera will play the Essian role, and Pogba will play the Lampard role. I can't see Pogba being used as an out and out 10 similar to how Mourinho used his 10's when lining up in a 4-2-3-1 at Inter or Real, when he relied on Snijder and Ozil. Pogba's attributes mean you probably want him to play a more combative game and be placed further back.
I wouldn't swap him for both of them, to be honest.
Hmm - makes sense but it assumes that Pogba will be able to match Lampards goals which I doubt if he has too much defensive responsibility. (Let's hope he also loses his fascination for hitting the woodwork!)
Lampard was abit under rated in my opinion: he was a class above Gerrard and as influencial for Chelsea as Scholes was for us. Of course I'm expecting Pogba to deliver to those standards but not sure he can if he is constantly tracking back.
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