As a neutral, I can not wait to see Pogba playing this season, such an awesome player to watch when he is at his best.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The fact that he chose to shoot by himself instead of doing the easy options of passing to Mkhi, I believe, besides poor decision making, his "arrogance" was one of the factors (his price, he wants to be the best, he wants to score against Real who is the best team in the world right now, etc......).
Also, at times he likes to overdo things, like Ronaldo used to.....
Arrogance is good but he simply used it wrongly. Only if he could use it like Cantona......
He needs to be more mature in this respect, that's part of the learning process. Hope he gets this soon. I can see he has been learning ever since he arrived, his "overdo things" has been reduced compared to early last season......
Also, at times he likes to overdo things, like Ronaldo used to.....
Arrogance is good but he simply used it wrongly. Only if he could use it like Cantona......
He needs to be more mature in this respect, that's part of the learning process. Hope he gets this soon. I can see he has been learning ever since he arrived, his "overdo things" has been reduced compared to early last season......
Make it or break it season in my opinion. We need him to be as close to an 8/10 player every match this season.
Heck I'd even settle for a 7 out of 10 at this point.
Heck I'd even settle for a 7 out of 10 at this point.
Moyes is doubting him; the end is nigh:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/10/paul-...ster-united-legends-says-david-moyes-6842843/
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/10/paul-...ster-united-legends-says-david-moyes-6842843/
I'm amused at how quickly this place has forgotten how rank average we were when he was out injured toward the end of last season and how much we all missed him. There was literally nothing creative from anyone without him.
A few unwise decisions at crucial moments shouldn't be held against him so astringently. The problem to my mind - ignoring the Real Madrid game - is Herrera's lack of creativity and taking control of the attacking responsibility. Pogba has too much pressure on him in that regard, no one else is stepping up in the final third.
A few unwise decisions at crucial moments shouldn't be held against him so astringently. The problem to my mind - ignoring the Real Madrid game - is Herrera's lack of creativity and taking control of the attacking responsibility. Pogba has too much pressure on him in that regard, no one else is stepping up in the final third.
Sure we didn't have a great squad (although we finished 4th and 5th on goal difference in 14/15 and 15/16) but when you go and pay 105 million euros from Juventus and pay the player 20 million Euros a year, you expect him to take you to the next level. When you pay that kind of money you expect results not excuses like "he's got too much pressure." Is that why he chooses to shoot from ridiculous angles, or misses passes, or tries to dribble 3-4 players. This is not one game, this a pattern. Do we need another 200 million investment in midfield to see Pogba shine?
Fact of the matter is he hasn't really provided a jump in quality since joining, by any statistical measure, to claim otherwise is myopic. I'm still hoping that he'll deliver and will be a legend with us, but if I was Mourinho I'd give him some tough love and including some time on the bench.
I agree with everything. His mentality as a footballer and the position he plays at are incompatible.
Damn, that's a pessimistic way to look at it!
Awesome player and with Matic will do better than last season I'm sure of it. But there's no defending him from the Madrid game. He was dreadful. One of our worst players and the worst midfielder on the pitch for that game.
Sometimes the simplest of answers are the most suiting ones, and this isn't far from the truth. At least not now.
Since Mourinho has clearly given him a license to roam freely, and dribble whenever or wherever (I have yet seen zero indications or signs of management trying to curb Pogba in this regard) – Pogba's best position is closer to the opposition goal, at this moment. Because when he loses the ball in the way we've seen that he can do, it's not as big of a risk when we're so high up the pitch.
It's not his best position ability-wise overall, but currently, his decision-making results in him being better suited a bit higher up the pitch.
Somebody else in this thread pointed out earlier, something along the lines of: "the greatest midfielders do the simplest things really well". Not an exact quote but the point was so spot on.
Pogba still overdoes it and usually gets away with it. And it doesn't matter if we play against smaller or bigger clubs. Pulling off flair moves so far down the pitch is high-risk-low-reward anyway.
If he can just simplify his game a little bit, he belongs in the absolute centre of the pitch and has the potential to truly dominate play.
I wouldn't have said it any better. The frustrating thing with him, even some Juve fans told me the same, is that Pogba has everything to be the best CM in the world. We know how he can ridiculous passes on short and long range, he can shoot the ball, he can dribble, he has a ridiculous first touch etc etc....
He has so much tools in his arsenal, he knows it and he wants to show it off too much at times. I strongly believe he has more "natural talent" (even if I hate that term because if the player isn't performing, it's useless) than the best CM in the world that Kroos and Modric but those 2 guys play the game so simply it makes it seem like it's a different sport altogether.
If Pogba cannot cut that desire to prove that he is the best by overdoing it, I don't think he can ever reach their level in terms of pure CM performances.
At moment he is about neck and neck with Gerard at the same age. I think pogba has more talent then Gerard.
If he provides as much to us between 24-30 as Gerard did during the same age we will be on to a winner. I think he can do more.
Gerard's best years came playing behind Torres in front of masherano and Alonso and many would say he was not a traditional number 10. No reason pogba can't do Same with Herrera/ matic foundation
I think pogba has more tact and skill than Gerard to play that position. Both players nature make them not a natural midfielder IMO but both have the desire to actually go and continually try to affect the game at the sharp end of the play. It is something that is fading from the game as it fills up with number 10s who just want space to turn and pass. We should value it more and accept that he will have poor games but the intent is always there. I expect his consistency to grow this year and over next few and as a result decision making to become better
If he provides as much to us between 24-30 as Gerard did during the same age we will be on to a winner. I think he can do more.
Gerard's best years came playing behind Torres in front of masherano and Alonso and many would say he was not a traditional number 10. No reason pogba can't do Same with Herrera/ matic foundation
I think pogba has more tact and skill than Gerard to play that position. Both players nature make them not a natural midfielder IMO but both have the desire to actually go and continually try to affect the game at the sharp end of the play. It is something that is fading from the game as it fills up with number 10s who just want space to turn and pass. We should value it more and accept that he will have poor games but the intent is always there. I expect his consistency to grow this year and over next few and as a result decision making to become better
The last thing Pogba needed was for us to buy a holding midfielder, thus freeing him from defensive responsibility, and pushing him forward into a quasi no 10 role. If you think his defensive awareness and covering has plenty of room for improvement, that's nothing compared to his finishing of decent chances inside the penalty area and his work in the final third. His conversion rate of shots taken inside the box last season in the PL for United was shocking. But if you go back to his numbers from Juventus, they weren't remotely clever either.
United 4 non-penalty goals out of 37 attempts taken inside the area
Juventus 5 non-penalty goals out of 41 attempts from inside the area
Juventus 3 non-penalty goals out of 21 attempts from inside the area
Juventus 4 from 29 attempts
As for shots from outside the box:
United 1 goal from 54 attempts
Juventus 2 goals from 82 attempts from outside the area
Juventus 5 goals from 35 attempts
Juventus 3 goals from 44 attempts
United 4 non-penalty goals out of 37 attempts taken inside the area
Juventus 5 non-penalty goals out of 41 attempts from inside the area
Juventus 3 non-penalty goals out of 21 attempts from inside the area
Juventus 4 from 29 attempts
As for shots from outside the box:
United 1 goal from 54 attempts
Juventus 2 goals from 82 attempts from outside the area
Juventus 5 goals from 35 attempts
Juventus 3 goals from 44 attempts
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Herrera, playing a slightly deeper role than Pogba, created 1.35 chances per 90 mins in the PL last season. Pogba managed 1.97 chances per 90 mins. Assists Herrera 0.22 per 90 mins, Pogba 0.14 per 90 mins.
You do realise, I hope, that stats like these tell us literally nothing about the relative qualities of the two players?
For sure, no one can possibly doubt Pogba's ability on the ball in comparison to Kroos or Modric. One can even argue that Pogba's touch in itself is better.
But that's not what defines their brilliance. It's the fact that they can combine that super control with their vision and decision-making. Pogba gets a bit caught between the two worlds. Once he bridges it, he can be at least as effective as those two.
Also, a bit off-topic, but it seems most people tend to think that Modric and Kroos are the de facto best central midfielders around right now? Modric is slightly above Kroos in my opinion. The closest thing to a Scholes there is today.
Kroos>modric for me
Modric can be better but it can also mean they are currently the best in the business.
This is true sadly. If I have a complaint to make at SAF, it was that phase when many players of calibre of Modric et al moved but we didn't move for them citing value in the market. Had we bought even a couple of players amongst Modric/Robben/Bale (if he could be persuaded to come), things could have been very different for us. That can also include ensuring that we retained Pogba. And then we had Moyes who passed up on Kroos
Yeah, Modric has developed into a terrific central midfielder. Probably the best around.
Worth remembering that when he was Pogba'a age he couldn't even hold down his place for Spurs in that position. He was often made to play in wide midfield, with mighty talents like Huddlestone and Palacios preferred in the engine room instead.
EDIT: Had to check his age there. Didn't realise he was 31. Is it fair to say he's played his best football since turning 30? Central midfielders are like fine wine.
Yeah it'll come when he matures as a person. That'll automatically steady his game. Titles won't speed that up.
Yes, there is all the hope that Pogba will click and become an incredible midfielder. I don't give up on him, it just annoys me that so much potential isn't efficiently used is all.
I actually think he plays his best football for us in a 2 man midfield.
All this talk about him being better in a 3 is all based on his Juve form, but he practically had it easy there.
He just seems to get a bit lost for me when playing that position, he never quite picks his positions correctly and often finds himself down a blind alley. When playing 4-2-3-1 and he's had to be a bit more restricted, he's actually focused more and done a much better job of a midfielder. He can still push forward if he's paired with Matic, but he will use his passing more than trying to run/dribble/shoot more often.
All this talk about him being better in a 3 is all based on his Juve form, but he practically had it easy there.
He just seems to get a bit lost for me when playing that position, he never quite picks his positions correctly and often finds himself down a blind alley. When playing 4-2-3-1 and he's had to be a bit more restricted, he's actually focused more and done a much better job of a midfielder. He can still push forward if he's paired with Matic, but he will use his passing more than trying to run/dribble/shoot more often.
A lot of that pressure is self generated though.He's built this off field profile that only he and a few others in the world have. The big difference being the others have done the business on the pitch.
So he often plays like a guy trying to live up to a billing.
How bad we are without him is true, he's crucial, but that's a squad problem.
Agree with you on Herrera.
It's amazing how unwilling he is take on a man or even make a run behind the opposition defence. Pereira was pretty awful against Sampdoria but he was at least willing to play a few give and go's with Valencia and get to their byline once or twice. Matic came here with a reputation as a one dimensional destroyer but even he dribbled past a couple of Madrid players the other night. Feck it, Fellaini has the touch of an anvil but even he shows more ambition than Hererra. It's strange because when Hererra does get involved in the final third he can be very effective he's decent, for example the cross to Pogba or the assist in the LC final. More often than not, his only contribution is speculative shots from range. Which just isn't enough from a CM at a team with aspirations of winning the league.
While this criticism is valid for a handful of situations each match, there is a tendency among Pogba's critics to overemphasize them or even flat-out reduce his game to these faults imo. He shows the opposite each game too: direct & precise short passing, good movement to make himself available, great long balls, quick thinking & good vision. His defensive grit has improved too, compared to his first months at Utd. All this is usually the bulk of his work. It's the fate of CMs that their mistakes are much more visible than their fundamental benefits.
I don't think it is. Last year, Pogba has been top 1-3 among PL CMs in most (offensive) key statistics, comfortably the best allround CM playmaker in the league. So when it comes to statistical impact, that is quite impressive. One individual can only add so much in a team of 11.
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Yeah okay then. So if he doesn't make it, then what? Sell him? Or should he retire?Make it or break it season in my opinion. We need him to be as close to an 8/10 player every match this season.
Heck I'd even settle for a 7 out of 10 at this point.
Yeah not sure what's happened. We seem to have knocked the adventure out of his game. A decent but different player to the one that arrived.
Seems a little moany to complain about the midfield as it's got plenty about it. However I still think it's lacks a bit of zip and a quality I can't quite put my finger on.
I can't see Pogba dominates big games with this team. He needs 2-3 WC players around him. It's his limits right now.
And even if I say that, Pogba is my favourite player
I hope, I'm wrong but for me it's to soon despite the fact that he's 24 but where were Modric and Zidane at the same age ? Modric wasn't great with Tottenham and Zidane was the scapegoat in France after his poor Euro 96..
And even if I say that, Pogba is my favourite player
I hope, I'm wrong but for me it's to soon despite the fact that he's 24 but where were Modric and Zidane at the same age ? Modric wasn't great with Tottenham and Zidane was the scapegoat in France after his poor Euro 96..
And why aren't you mentioning his very good club career for France ?I can't see Pogba dominates big games with this team. He needs 2-3 WC players around him. It's his limits right now.
And even if I say that, Pogba is my favourite player
I hope, I'm wrong but for me it's to soon despite the fact that he's 24 but where were Modric and Zidane at the same age ? Modric wasn't great with Tottenham and Zidane was the scapegoat in France after his poor Euro 96..
Because it's obvious that what Pogba did with Juventus was better than what Zidane did with Bordeaux and Cannes.
CMs tend to peak late. Xavi, Zidane, Pirlo, Scholes, Modric - all of them and more played their best football starting in their late 20's and early 30's. And Pogba is arguably better and has achieved more than any of them had at 24.
He needs to iron out the flaws in his game, but I'm confident he will in time.
He needs to iron out the flaws in his game, but I'm confident he will in time.
It's not obvious at all.
With PSG going full retard in the transfer market, hopefully they can be persuaded to part with £100m for him next summer should he underwhelm again this season. He'd prosper as a peacock for the strongest team in dodgy league full of cannon fodder once again.
All of those players had a great football IQ; Pogba clearly lacks it.
As for his 'achievements' Ross Barkley could have played spare in that Juve midfield against Chievos and Pescaras and looked the business, collecting medals in the process. The personnel has changed, but Juve keep winning, such is their collective dominance.
He's a Dennis Rodman parody; him and his gimp Lingard are the two biggest morons in football. Keane got wound up by Richardson turning up in a Bentley; can only imagine what he'd have done finding those two fecking about in the dressing room making unfunny videos, while languishing in 6th place and turning in substandard performances on a weekly basis.
The best thing that could happen to Pogba is for one of those strikes that always hits the post actually goes in. First game of the season, screamer. Would do absolute wonders for his confidence.
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