Awful
6
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He is a beast and our best and most important player at present. He reminds us how enjoyable it is to watch a great midfield player. I just wonder what we would have achieved if we had a player like him in the last 4-5 years of Fergie era. The team was crying for a player like him.
6.5 average rating.In the tone of Tyrion lannister:
I wish to confess
I don't like pogba haters.
I wish we never signed him.
I wish he is playing for Real Madrid.
I wish i can see those united fans clamoring for a magical player like pogba.
I demand a trial by combat.
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If you picked an actual world 11, would he start and why? based on his big games, crunch matches, lack of reliability, I would say no. There is a certain degree of reliabilty that world class players need. Its like Nani again. At his pomp, only 1 or 2 sides he perhaps would not have started for but wasn't quite reliable enough to be quite world class.
Only he's not Nani-level at all.
He'd pretty clearly be in the discussion. To compare him to Nani is a false equivalency. He also did fine in big games at Juve. You are dramatically underrating him.
So you are saying world class means player should start for world 11?
yeah,
that's ridiculous.
Pogba is a flair player cum midfielder, the rarest kind of player. Name me another midfielder like Pogba.
You can't compare Modric, Kross, with Pogba, they are just too different.
He is a livewire, the main man.
His job isn't to drop back to cover for Matic pressing, it's Matic who has to decide when it's worth the risk. The fact that he does so successfully is a credit to Matic, not a problem in Pogba's game. The reason why Fellaini came on is the same as against West Ham, our game plan is to kill teams off at the death by giving Pogba further license to go forward and join the attack. Credit to Pogba for scoring both times.
Our entire defensive set up on set pieces has changed, it's not only Pogba, and it's not because he was (in your mind) awful last season. How on earth does being good at defending corners constitute a necessary element of being a world class creative midfielder anyway?
This is how people arrive at conclusions like 'Pogba was average to poor for most games last season'. They underrate and nitpick every top performance he puts in, and then bang on about the few poor games like it typified his season. It doesn't matter how well Pogba plays, at the end of the season we'll still be hearing how he needs to do more to justify his price tag.
Weird logic. If we made a world XI many, many great players won't get selected because that's just 11 players, you can't force every world class player in it. In the attack, for example, we'll be forced to choose Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. That will leave all other top world class attackers not being selected but it doesn't mean they aren't world class. Hell even De Gea probably won't start as there's Neur and Buffon so David isn't world class keeper, too ?
You better search for a better logic.
Straws. Clutching. Come on lads, admit that either you were wrong about Pogba and he's actually a fantastic player, or else admit that you don't like him. Either would be far better than the silly straw clutching to downplay his ability that's rampant in here with some.
In that case one of Messi, Neymar or Ronaldo aren't world class players either given you'd have a Suarez type CF upfront, forget other top players like Griezmann or Sanchez.
Correct. It does show that he watched those players closely. Maybe you missed out? Because Scholes, Pirlo and Iniesta were not players who did would say were 'great in the defensive phase of the game'.
Rubbish. All players rely on their team mates. Ronaldo used to be terrible against Barcelona and Spain before his team mates improved. Still remember that clip of Barcelona passing the ball around him and him gettin frustrated. Dani Alves used to give him a tough time.
People always forget that it's a team game.
There could be an argument made for Pogba not being top class, for sure. But let's not forget team mates don't matter.
The micro-analysis reminds me of De Gea in the beginning. 5 years ago people would be wondering what De Gea was doing when Ayew hit the post and how he looked shaky, now there's barely been a peep. I think it's mostly confirmation bias. Funny enough, if we don't improve from our league performances from the past 4 seasons it won't be long before the general consensus is that Pogba is way too good for us like De Gea in 2015.
This is quite an interesting point, last season when Pogba was having a bad game, he was not really able to improve or impose himself in the game but in the last match he increased his performance level significantly in the second half.I believe this is a good thing and he has started maturing + he is setteling down with the team now.
"Ronaldo would perform regardless of who accompanied him" is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. Even if he could which I don't he think could, how would one know because Ronaldo has played alongside the world's best all his life?
There are always some people who just cant enjoy such a player. Be it nostalgia or being overcritical, they always find something to moan about.
He's a brilliant player, one of the best midfielders around. His strengths compensate his flaws by far. People will only realize how good he is if he's injured
He's a brilliant player, one of the best midfielders around. His strengths compensate his flaws by far. People will only realize how good he is if he's injured
What is his flaw? If anything, I don't see flaw, just weaker point that can be improved, filled out with time/experience. He is a midfielder by trade. Some people seem to mistake him for attacker, me think
Why is it ridiculous? Of course he'd score more goals and have better results with a good team round him but whichever XI he was in his talent would be evident.
The history of football is littered with top players performing for average teams.
The premise was WC players don't need teammates that compliment them to perform which is absolutely wrong. All players including WC players need their teammates.
Would Modric have hit the same heights had he stayed at Spurs? Absolutely not.
Sometimes based on the things some of you say, it seems like you're watching a different sport. All 3 of those players were excellent in their defensive positioning and reading off the game when the other side had the ball. Naturally as they got older and their legs started to go, they struggled as all midfielders do.
Was Modric not performing(which was the word used) at Spurs? He already looked pretty awesome to me. Suarez at Liverpool? Shearer at Newcastle? Robson at Utd? RvN at Utd? Let Tissier at Southampton? The examples could go on and on.
Chances are they'd look even greater with better teammates but world class players look world class wherever they are.
Excellent in their positioning are Carrick, Keane and Busquets not Scholes, Gerrard or Pirlo. They were more competent than particularly great at it. And in fact players get better at this with age which Pogba will.
So Pogba bears no defensive responsibility when playing in a midfield 2, with only 2 centre-backs behind him? Alright then.
The whole team was poor at defending set pieces last season and that has continued into this season despite Jose changing the roles for the personnel midway through last season. Pogba for a man his size is poor at defending set-pieces, especially considering how great he is attacking the ball at set-pieces at the other end.
I gave Pogba 9/10 and MoM for the last game. Where have I underrated his performances? I thought the whole point of this thread was to analyze how players perform on the field, both the positives and the mistakes. I pointed out some of the negative aspects of his performance because there was more than enough on the positive aspects I thought.
I don't feel he is a legitmate inclusion and would cause too much uproar. The only ones who would select him would be United fans. My world class is "if picking a world 11, this players name could be included and would not cause too much fuss across the board". e.g. If you picked prime Robben or Gareth Bale, either would do and no one would scream bloody murder. I feel Pogba has disappointed too often on the big stage for him to be accepted on the world stage. People will suggest fans have an agenda but it is a widespread opinion that he is overrated. The fact it even happens here tells you something. As midfielder, he is more a moments player but can also faff around too much and hasn't shown reliability in my book. Again its too much a widespread opinion to be just ignored as "hating". If he has a big season this year and possibly Champions league then world cup, he has a shout. But at the moment based on last season and when we have seen him at world stage, he would cause to much confusion in the world 11.
Modric wasn't WC at Spurs. He became WC after he went to RM and started playing alongside Kroos, Casemiro etc.
Where did I say he bears no defensive responsibility at all? Don't invent arguments. What I said is he shouldn't be dropping back when Matic presses in an attempt to regain the ball. Matic presses in two situations, the first being when the other team is on the counter and we have a chance to quickly win the ball back again in transition. Obviously Pogba will be further up the field in this situation, since he would have been involved in our attack. The second situation is when sloppiness from the other team gives Matic an opening. In this case we also want Pogba further forward so that Matic can release it to him to initiate our own counter attack. Asking Pogba to sit back so that Matic has more freedom to press is entirely reversing their roles.
Also against Swansea, Pogba won the ball back for us 5 times, just as many as Matic. I'd say he's taking care of his defensive duties just fine. Keep in mind that Swansea offered little offensive threat for most of the game, so it's not like there was a great deal of defending to do to start with.
It has? We haven't conceded a goal in the league yet and according to you our set piece defending has been poor. What will you think when we actually concede?
Tbf against Swansea we nearly conceded a few times from set pieces, that was the only way they looked threatening at times.
He can be a bit overengineered and overdo things - if he takes on one player, he often wants to take one the next and the next. As you said, that will improve over time
that's what flair player does, magic and sometimes failure.
Teammates gives the ball to Pogba, trusting him to do magnificent things with the ball. You want simple things? pass it to Ander and Matic.
He is playing with freedom, and i would hate it if he lost that privilege.
We need some entertainment other than just winning, if we can have that little bit of style with Pogba's skills, I would have that everyday.
You don't think that could be related to him just becoming more mature and entering into his prime years? Your sure you can discount that and put it purely down to playing along with Kroos etc.
Then there's all the other examples I gave and the literally hundreds more that could be provided.
Whoever Ronaldo has lined up next to him his dribbling, power, pace, shooting, ability with both feet and heading remains the same.
Like the poster originally noted yes a player needs team mates but a 23 years old Ronaldo would look awesome playing for Leicester.
One of his interceptions launched the counter attack for his goal in which he made a run to get ahead of the ball and finish off the move himself. His defensive work in general is excellent, defending set pieces not withstanding, for a player whose main contributions are expected in his creativity and attacking play.
Do Juve defend set pieces zonally? I believe this could be a reason he's struggled to mark man-to-man since returning to United. It's something he'll need to iron out.
I agree. Actually think our set piece defending hasn't looked very strong even going back to preseason. Real looked extremely dangerous against us in the SuperCup off set pieces. Wouldn't be surprised if Leicester score on one this weekend.
I agree he still needs to work on things defensively but set pieces...really? You can't think of a number of players that you considered world class that were poor at defending set pieces? It's a completely non-essential component in the grand scheme of things. Extremely annoying and a potential danger, but it has always been considered irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when talking about anyone other than a centre back.
I don't think they were that close to scoring, well rather that they threatened so little in any other way those few header chances stood out. Swansea were dominant aerially all over the park (Lukaku struggled against their centre halves in the air as well). We have a lot of height but equally I suspect Swansea spent a lot of time training on set pieces to prepare for us - they knew they weren't likely to score from open play.
There is difference between doing magical things and losing the ball when you put yourself in a bad situation on the pitch. No one said he should lose his freedom, but you asked for his flaws
Yeah Pogba is class. He is a complete package. Also for our 3rd goal he intercepted pass and then made run to finish it. For 4th goal when Lukaku had call he was in our box defending and in no time he was at other end providing assist. This micro analysis of his game is getting very tiresome.
Exactly. In that case Lewandowski is not world class, also only one of DeGea or Neuer is. Having very narrow definition of world class means few class players will always miss out and I dont think anyone can argue whether Lewa is world class considering Suarez is better 9.
the difference is this year, whenever he lost the ball, it's not in the dangerous position. Matic fixed that flaw.. defensive errors are okay for Pogba for the time being.
So just because Matic cleans out means he doesnt have to improve? Strange logic
Already gave my response. Many neutrals would choose Lewandowki, many would choose Suarez without much fuss. If Pogba was in the World 11, many neutral fans would be very confused.
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