Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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IFC 1905 said:
Come here and ask it to any argentinan, they would laugh in your face more than with 20k green smilies.
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That's my entire point about how spoiled you are.

You have made the last two tournament finals, you have no need to be so angry and upset and "hate" certain players to the stage that YOU WILL LAUGH IN PEOPLES FACES if they suggest these are good players. It's bizarre.
 
IFC 1905 said:
We are Argentina, we don't compare to those teams. I know it might sound arrongant, but we compare ourselves to Brazil, Germany, France, Spain...those who are currently the best.

And compared to them, we're average.
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That's not how football works, or anything for that matter. Being top 8 of around 200 odd countries is not average in anyone's book.

It is arrogant and it's spoiled, but that's your prerogative and you have such a great history so I understand where it stems from, same happens with Real Madrid fans. Amol though thinks I'm a child for pointing out exactly what you've admitted yourself above.

Sweden finished third in 1994, Brolin was the star but became a massive fatty right afterwards, didn't matter, no-one hated him; I'll say it again, they finished 3rd and he'll be a national hero for eternity.
 
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amolbhatia50k said:
For the national team they're average which is what is relevant. Obviously noone is calling Aguero average in general. Pretty obvious this is all in relation to the NT.
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I can see your point there but I don't see it as an "average" NT. The performances are average of late but the players clearly aren't average. An average NT is England or Greece.

A NT like Argentina, which will be in that group of 6-8 nations with high odds to win the WC, is simply not average. Overrated perhaps.
 
MrMarcello said:
I can see your point there but I don't see it as an "average" NT. The performances are average of late but the players clearly aren't average. An average NT is England or Greece.

A NT like Argentina, which will be in that group of 6-8 nations with high odds to win the WC, is simply not average. Overrated perhaps.
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I'm not even sure that's true @MrMarcello, unless "of late" means a 3 match streak of average performances, although one of those was a 0-0 away to Uruguay so does that even count as "average"?

In the last year they have won 5 (vs. Brazil, Columbia, Chile), drawn 3 and lost 1.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Di maria injured in every important tournament when it matters. And since 2014 has been playing really, really bad.

And about the other ones you can say anything you want. Come here and ask it to any argentinan, they would laugh in your face more than with 20k green smilies. Maybe, maybe the fact of none of both being called to play by Sampaoli proves what I'm saying.

But who knows.
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How do you laugh in somebody's face with green smilies and how many can an average argentinian carry?
 
MJJ said:
How do you laugh in somebody's face with green smilies and how many can an average argentinian carry?
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An average Argentinian can carry a lot more than people from most other countries, but if you compare the amount of green smileys they can carry to the amount people from Germany or Spain can carry, it becomes rather average.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Marcos Rojo who is painfully average and in goal they have Romero who is, with all due respect (which is quite little) a clown.
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Did you even watch United much last season to make that verdict? Because Romero was fantastic when he played last season, and Rojo was arguably the best defender for United last season.

Either you have no clue how to judge a players performances, you are making statements from their past performances before last season, or are just plain ignorant and didn't even watch United play much last season and are just spouting nonsense.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Did you even watch United much last season to make that verdict? Because Romero was fantastic when he played last season, and Rojo was arguably the best defender for United last season.

Either you have no clue how to judge a players performances, you are making statements from their past performances before last season, or are just plain ignorant and didn't even watch United play much last season and are just spouting nonsense.
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So he had an okay period at United, I've watched Romero for the last eight years. He has good reflexes but is prone to extreme brainfarts. Rojo is not a terrible player, but in the grand scheme of things he's definitely average. All of this is just my personal opinion ofcourse, these things may differ :)
 
IFC 1905 said:
We are Argentina, we don't compare to those teams. I know it might sound arrongant, but we compare ourselves to Brazil, Germany, France, Spain...those who are currently the best.

And compared to them, we're average.
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France and Brazil should not be mentioned as in the same category as Spain and Germany. They have both achieved nothing as major as Spain and Germany have in the last 10 years.

France have a good squad now yes but they still havent done anything yet. Brazil were torn apart in the last world cup. The team is not that good. Luiz is poor defensively, Fernandinho is not that good and Jesus is still quite raw. Paulinho is average and excluding Neymar, the attack isn't all that. Coutinho is over rated. Hulk is a bit meh.
 
KirkDuyt said:
So he had an okay period at United, I've watched Romero for the last eight years. He has good reflexes but is prone to extreme brainfarts. Rojo is not a terrible player, but in the grand scheme of things he's definitely average. All of this is just my personal opinion ofcourse, these things may differ :)
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Even Neuer is prone to the odd error now and again. Schmeichel himself made quite a few errors in his career. Not saying Romero is in their league, but he is definitely a good keeper. Cech, Courtois, De Gea, Lloris aside, he is probably as good as any keeper in the PL.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
France and Brazil should not be mentioned as in the same category as Spain and Germany. They have both achieved nothing as major as Spain and Germany have in the last 10 years.

France have a good squad now yes but they still havent done anything yet. Brazil were torn apart in the last world cup. The team is not that good. Luiz is poor defensively, Fernandinho is not that good and Jesus is still quite raw. Paulinho is average and excluding Neymar, the attack isn't all that. Coutinho is over rated. Hulk is a bit meh.
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I was talking abut today's time and their actual performance level.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Even Neuer is prone to the odd error now and again. Schmeichel himself made quite a few errors in his career. Not saying Romero is in their league, but he is definitely a good keeper. Cech, Courtois, De Gea, Lloris aside, he is probably as good as any keeper in the PL.
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Well, I do have to admit, that I'm speaking for a large part for his 4 years at AZ where he was a bit like Herhuelho Gomez, great line keeper, but prone to give his team's fans heart attacks with every back pass.
 
abhayselvan said:
That's the way it is though. In the end, no one is going to remember how well you played if you don't win it. The trophy is all that matters. Messi vs. Maradona is still a debate only because Maradona won it even though he cheated his way to it. In club level, Maradona is not even close to Messi based on trophies, goals and awards.
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Idiotic though. Had Messi got injured in the last WC final and his team won without him ala Ronaldo in the Euros this would seemingly have settled the debate. How does that make any sense?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I’ll tag you as often as I see fit @amolbhatia50k. It's a forum and we're here to debate/discuss.

Runner up in WC 2014, lost in extra time.
Runner up in CA2016, lost on pens
Best player in the World in team
Cracking talent pool.

Di Maria was their best player in 2014, was excellent last night. As I’ve already mentioned, 2 of the hated and multiple green smilie facies players are their 5th and 6th all time record scorers.

And if you can’t see how calling a side that has reached it’s previous two tournament finals “average” is spoiled, well then you simply must be Spanish, French or German.

If you can't see the following:

"Di Maria? We all hate him here"

Is absolutely spoiled when he was amazing for them in their 2014 run for WC final and was their second best player last night, then I'm sorry, but you need to take a deep breath, and look at this from a non biased perspective.
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Di Maria was their best player in 2014? He was amazing in their WC run? Not in the real world he wasn't.

Bordering obsession if you're constantly tagging someone who doesn't want to be tagged.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Messi has like 10000 times the pressure Ronaldo has on his NT, even despite Argentina being a pretty much average NT, not much better than Portugal.
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No, he doesn't. You're just not aware of it. Now that we've won something the pressure is completely off and the journalists treat him like he's the Pope, but you should have seen what it was like in the Carlos Queiroz days.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I’ll tag you as often as I see fit @amolbhatia50k. It's a forum and we're here to debate/discuss.

Runner up in WC 2014, lost in extra time.
Runner up in CA2016, lost on pens
Best player in the World in team
Cracking talent pool.

Di Maria was their best player in 2014, was excellent last night. As I’ve already mentioned, 2 of the hated and multiple green smilie facies players are their 5th and 6th all time record scorers.

And if you can’t see how calling a side that has reached it’s previous two tournament finals “average” is spoiled, well then you simply must be Spanish, French or German.

If you can't see the following:

"Di Maria? We all hate him here"

Is absolutely spoiled when he was amazing for them in their 2014 run for WC final and was their second best player last night, then I'm sorry, but you need to take a deep breath, and look at this from a non biased perspective.
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You'll stop tagging him when he asks you to.
 
adexkola said:
Seeing this question being posted on social media, so here goes.

Who's performance was better? Ronaldo vs Sweden, or Messi vs Ecuador?
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It was 3, could have been 7 and Sweden played very well, much better than Ecuador since they were actually the ones with the World Cup on the line. Moutinho was good but he was partly responsible for that phase of the game in the second half when we were completely losing the midfield battle and had to put on William. Not only I think it was a better performance in general but it was also better thanks to Ibra, the progression of the result and what was on the line for both teams.

That performance vs Sweden probably isn't even his best for the national team, I always prefered this one.

 
Peyroteo said:
No, he doesn't. You're just not aware of it. Now that we've won something the pressure is completely off and the journalists treat him like he's the Pope, but you should have seen what it was like in the Carlos Queiroz days.
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It doesn't matter if Messi wins the WC. Here's a guy called Maradona who's done it dribbling 5 guys and winning it on his own. Believe it or not, they want him to do the same. And act like a "leader".
 
IFC 1905 said:
It doesn't matter if Messi wins the WC. Here's a guy called Maradona who's done it dribbling 5 guys and winning it on his own. Believe it or not, they want him to do the same. And act like a "leader".
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Of course it matters, if you win the World Cup he'll be treated like a God even if he doesn't do it like Maradona.

It's not like media pressure should be bothering these guys anyway, they've been dealing with it all their careers.
 
Peyroteo said:
Of course it matters, if you win the World Cup he'll be treated like a God even if he doesn't do it like Maradona.

It's not like media pressure should be bothering these guys anyway, they've been dealing with it all their careers.
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I'm telling you, there's a strong amount of people who hate messi because he is a "threat" to maradona in their eyes. Some friends of mine wanted us to get out of the WC!
 
Good on Messi to win the game for Argentina. Two great goals and the third was sublime.

Don't know why people seem to think that performance is better than anything Ronaldo has done for Portugal when that's not the case at all. Let's put things into perspective, Ecuador were already eliminated and were playing under a new coach who tried out a bunch of new players in the team to see how they would do. Many of these players being pretty young. Basically, it was Ecuador's B team with nothing to play for. I know this because I'm Ecuadorian and my team really let me down. I'm sure Ronaldo has come through for Portugal on more dire circumstances.
 
Ronaldo was special v Sweden. It's often forgotten but shouldn't even have been in that position in the first place. He was being marked out of the game in the first leg, headbutted Mikael Lustig in frustration and got away with it probably because Lustig didn't throw himself to the floor and draw attention to it.
 
Pink Moon said:
Ronaldo was special v Sweden. It's often forgotten but shouldn't even have been in that position in the first place. He was being marked out of the game in the first leg, headbutted Mikael Lustig in frustration and got away with it probably because Lustig didn't throw himself to the floor and draw attention to it.
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You mean this?

 
Lord SInister said:
this has to be the biggest myth of Internet Fans.
One excellent game vs Switzerland(where Messi was equally impressive btw), and suddenly Di Maria outperformed Messi, Mascherano and Romero as the best player of Argentina in 2014.
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Am I going crazy or wasn't the Switzerland game the one where he was absolutely terrible but scored the winner in the 120th minute?
 
Pink Moon said:
Ronaldo was special v Sweden. It's often forgotten but shouldn't even have been in that position in the first place. He was being marked out of the game in the first leg, headbutted Mikael Lustig in frustration and got away with it probably because Lustig didn't throw himself to the floor and draw attention to it.
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You could say the same thing about Messi with Argentina needing the last game to qualify against possibly the worst team on form in the qualifier. Ecuador lost to everyone in the last few matches after having the perfect start.

Anyways, Brazil to win the WC. They have amazing chemistry and absolutely dominated the qualifiers. In the form they're in they'll beat Germany, Spain, and whoever else is a threat.
 
Rai7 said:
You could say the same thing about Messi with Argentina needing the last game to qualify against possibly the worst team on form in the qualifier. Ecuador lost to everyone in the last few matches after having the perfect start.

Anyways, Brazil to win the WC. They have amazing chemistry and absolutely dominated the qualifiers. In the form they're in they'll beat Germany, Spain, and whoever else is a threat.
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@fontaine is back!

7-1
 
El cagrejo said:
Am I going crazy or wasn't the Switzerland game the one where he was absolutely terrible but scored the winner in the 120th minute?
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Nah you're right, probably the worst performance of anyone at that World Cup.
 
SteveW said:
Idiotic though. Had Messi got injured in the last WC final and his team won without him ala Ronaldo in the Euros this would seemingly have settled the debate. How does that make any sense?
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Simple, it doesn't.. I've been barking up this tree for the past year in some 'GOAT' and 'Messi vs Ronaldo' discussions and no one has given me a logical answer yet, because there simply is none.
 
I think Messi's dribbling is what sets him apart from Ronaldo. Ronaldo has managed to match and even surpass Messi in goals and titles, but Messi's dribbling ability is up there with Cruyff and George Best (Ball glued to the feet) Ronaldo excels at creating spaces out of nowhere (see his goals against Barcelona and Fiorentina this August) and has retained quite a good acceleration, which enables him to go past defenders when closer to the goal, but Messi still can go past players as if they weren't there and ultimately, that requires a higher degree of skill.
 
Well done to Ronaldo, he is making the most of what he has and getting closer to Messi than ever and that in itself is incredible.
 
Luke1995 said:
I think Messi's dribbling is what sets him apart from Ronaldo. Ronaldo has managed to match and even surpass Messi in goals and titles, but Messi's dribbling ability is up there with Cruyff and George Best (Ball glued to the feet) Ronaldo excels at creating spaces out of nowhere (see his goals against Barcelona and Fiorentina this August) and has retained quite a good acceleration, which enables him to go past defenders when closer to the goal, but Messi still can go past players as if they weren't there and ultimately, that requires a higher degree of skill.
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Exactly. CR7 isn't not exactly good at dribbling. He is more about pace, physical ability and shoots.
 
Currently, Messi all around play is much better than Ronaldo but the later is doing a fantastic job in changing his style to keep his numbers going toe on toe with Messi.

However it doesn't mean Ronaldo has always been the current kind of player, around 2008-2010 he was an excellent dribbler and great all around footballer. He just regressed in these with age while Messi is still keeping his level on the pitch as it was in 2009. Their numbers are still the same, though.
 
Ah, the joy of being able to post here, as convinced of my rightness as anyone else. I'm not interested in defending my view, as it won't be changed, but challenges are welcome.

Messi is leagues ahead of Ronaldo in the general playing of football. Messi is leagues ahead of Ronaldo in creative midfield properties, such as incisive passing; the vision to pull off such a penetrating pass; the ability to execute such a pass in numerous different styles; the ability to get out of all kinds of trouble with deft close control and unsurpassed technique; the ability to get out of all kinds of trouble by dribbling past 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 opponents, and then supplying either the type of pass already touched on above which results in an assist, or the killer finish himself.

Ronaldo barely enters this particular discussion. He does though in terms of striker ability, where he's one of the best that's ever been. Trouble is though, Messi matches him. He's just as good at this aspect of football as dropping deeper and supplying, which isn't the natural Ronaldo habitat. Messi is the complete footballer, but I'm not about to say he's the best that will ever be, as that's short-sighted. Genius does reoccur, and football will still be played in the year 235667. Nothing is beyond him, while there's plenty beyond Ronaldo, or any other player presently kicking a football for money. He can do it all, in often unimaginable ways. He routinely produces beauty. He's an artist in the way few footballers can dream of. But it's not science, and it all depends on what type of football gets you off.
 
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