Seems that way. It's really only a small section of a quite far right wing(Something similar to the US republican party)that actually want this to go through. Almost all of British Capitalism(Literally the whole point of the tory party is to serve and maintain British Capitalism)wants things to stay the same.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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But aren't his diplomats going around and telling people that he talks to to ignore everything that he says?
Hmm but here’s the thing it’s not even as if the hardcore Brexiteers have hijacked it and are holding anyone to ransom etc.
Everyone just seems to be passively watching as a failing leader (and Govt) just tries to bumble through.
Once again I sincerely hope this is a grand play!!
Everyone just seems to be passively watching as a failing leader (and Govt) just tries to bumble through.
Once again I sincerely hope this is a grand play!!
But that's a massive problem, he is supposed to represent the United Kingdom's position at international level, if he doesn't know what he is currently doing, where he wants to be in the near future and how to actually do things then you are in big trouble because the EU are notoriously difficult in negotiations but other countries and trade areas aren't exactly easy. You are heading towards WTO rules for a very long time.
Brexit or no Brexit, you need to get rid of them and make sure that they never get close to the top ever again, they are an actual threat for the country.
Well you were the one always talking a big game how we shouldn't throw all leavers into the xenophobic bucket (which is still accurate for the majority mind), now that has suddenly changed and all those 'moderate' leavers aren't representative?
I'd actually accept your explanation that almost all leave voters support the idea of leaving the single market if you'd accept the fact that almost all leave voters voted out of xenophobic misleading paranoia.
Where do you draw the line of what the vote meant? Every brexiteer who talked at depth about it wants the UK to remain part of some things (concerning security at the very least, but also in education, science etc.). Who decides what the vote meant and what it didn't mean, if leaving the EU without leaving the customs union is a betrayal of the vote?
Thanks for this Wibble. I'm sorry to hear about the possible negative impact of Brexit on your son's water polo options but this really doesn't address Jippy's wild assertions. My point is that the term abroad obviously extends to beyond Europe. There's a tendency in this thread to forget about the world beyond European confines.
More than a "tad OTT". I agree movement outside of the EU may well be a struggle but that has nothing to do with Brexit. It may well prove the case even that movement outside of the EU might be made easier as part of any negotiations with new trading partners? As for the rubble and rats prediction it's hysterical nonsense as he's acknowledged.
That's logical, we are generally the smarter ones.
I totally agree with you.
What are you talking about? Did you even understand the point I was making?
My point is, look how difficult emigrating outside of Europe today. For the UK outside of the EU and EEC, Europe will become equally as difficult and full of red tape.
That's something like 30 countries off the table immediately that previously were as easy to emigrate to as just jumping in your car and heading off.
Oh yeah, I'm sure the UK Brexit voters will be delighted to make movement easier to the UK from outside the EU which is much more likely to be countries such as India.
Heh, note India wasn't included in the list of countries here. Quite funny seeing Lord Bilmoria turn Liam Fox the other way about a post Brexit-deal with India.
Hey pal shelve the unwarranted hostility. My point is clear. Brexit will not completely destroy peoples chances of living abroad nor will the country be reduced to rat eating rubble dwellers. It's hyperbolic nonsense. Simple.
As for movement outside of the EU as a result of any new trade deals I simply posited that as one door closes another may open. What brexit voters feel about that is another matter.
I grant my cat with a degree of intelligence but I wouldn't trust him to resolve a complex issue around international politics with a simple one word answer.
What worries me is that there are only two reasons for today's fiasco about impact assessments
1) There are none which would mean pure incompetence and we have a government who are leading us down a line with absolutely no idea what the outcome would be. If this was a business in major negotiations any talks would be paused immediately, everybody involved sacked and the entire position reviewed.
2) There are full and detailed impact assessments but the outcome of them is so bad economically for the country that it is actually better to look like incompetent fools with no idea of what is going on. That's scary.
1) There are none which would mean pure incompetence and we have a government who are leading us down a line with absolutely no idea what the outcome would be. If this was a business in major negotiations any talks would be paused immediately, everybody involved sacked and the entire position reviewed.
2) There are full and detailed impact assessments but the outcome of them is so bad economically for the country that it is actually better to look like incompetent fools with no idea of what is going on. That's scary.
I think the only reason that they are willing to accept all the things that the EU are asking of them is because the outcome of the Impact assessments are very bad.
Now would the government go into this with out doing a white paper into the impact of it? Yeah I'm pretty sure they would.
Would the Civil Service do an Impact study whether they were asked for it or not? Of course they would.
This is so ridiculously incompetent that part of me thinks this has to be some deliberate attempt at looking so bad we can back out of the entire thing. Possibly because of what you're saying. There's no way that parliament can just continue like nothing has happened when a government is claiming that there is no assessment of what we are doing will do to our economy.
The arguments used today that he doesn't believe in financial predictions or that the potential impact is so big that predictions are worthless is actually even worse as it is a total admittance that we have no idea of what will happen. If a business wouldn't do that for very obvious reasons it makes the governments position an absolute shambles.
So the Brexit committee voted that Davis was not in contempt of Parliament for saying he'll deliver the reports because they never existed in the first place. An absolute joke and disgrace for Parliament if I've ever seen one but I won't hold my breath for Brexiters to point out this blatant perversion of democracy.
You all will be surprised to hear that it was 11 votes to 8. 10 Cons and 1 DUP supported Davis...
You all will be surprised to hear that it was 11 votes to 8. 10 Cons and 1 DUP supported Davis...
To be fair to the Government they think they have carte blanche to do whatever they want. So why bother with impact assesments? 52% of the electorate have already shown they arent interested in "experts" anyway!
Absolutely outrageous.
Does it matter? The Coalition of Chaos has the majority so the contempt will be voted down there as well.
ha ha, US, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea... oh how lovely.
Erm... that's the thing, for some it absolutely WILL do so. Why aren't you understanding that? A lot of people would love to move to Australia for example, or America, or Cananda and simply cannot. Brexit means the 30 countries you could move to without any issue at all are off the table.
So your point is crap. He was OTT as I said, but don't make the mistake that emigrating anywhere is easy... unless it's in the EU of course, then it's a piece of piss. Brexit will detroy many peoples chances of living abroad, that's an undeniable fact.
Davis says, "I am not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong". So on what is the predicted positive outcome of the future after Brexit based ?
My point was OTT- I'd been on that nasty EU-produced poison called Stella.
While overboard, the gist of my point has been proven today. Despite how grave the economic perils are, Brexiters are so ideologically driven that they'd rather we go through with it, even if it sets living standards back 20 or 30 years. 'Pile of rubble' was a metaphor. Sort of.
And yes, it will be a damn sight harder for me or my nieces to work in the EU post-Brexit. Hardly a controversial statement, more plain fact.
You wont be needing these things in Brexit land, people are tired of them.
It doesn't exist either
Your second point is valid, up until the point where the very same countries you want to have as trading partners are asking for... "freedom of movement". And they're not talking about tourists, they want reciprocity in the ability to go, live and work in the country. Exactly what seems to be the "problem" for many Brexiters because apparently, all those immigrants from Europe drain the NHS, take the jobs, etc... so it sounds a bit contradictory. However, on the principle, you are right.
I was just thinking they could probably do with one or two of those experts right about now.
Saw someone put it succinctly - we're essentially revoking every single trade agreement we've got to do something we hope might go well, and the guy in charge of the transition hasn't actually even bothered his arse to assess the risks of doing so. Mental.
How the feck did we end up with these people running the country? 
Or benefits.
The DUP are overplaying their hand here.
They've already had a shocking election, if it turns out they are the reason for a hard Brexit and a total collapse of the Northern Irish economy then surely to God it kills the party or their turnout at least?
How could they spin any sort of narrative about working for their constituents?
They tried all that sectarian rabble rousing nonsense in March and received apathy in response.
Gerry Adams must be laughing his ass off.
They've already had a shocking election, if it turns out they are the reason for a hard Brexit and a total collapse of the Northern Irish economy then surely to God it kills the party or their turnout at least?
How could they spin any sort of narrative about working for their constituents?
They tried all that sectarian rabble rousing nonsense in March and received apathy in response.
Gerry Adams must be laughing his ass off.
You’re being far too sensible and rational in your analysis. The same people that voted for the DUP will still vote for the DUP. It’s one of the quirks of....well of that part of the world.
"A damn sight harder" I'd agree with and that's a really poor and hyperbolic metaphor. That's Stella for you though
Looking at the issue with some sympathy for both sides of the Brexit/Remain argument I see sweeping generalisations such as" Brexiters are this" and "remainers are that" as unhelpful. We are talking about the views of several million people and, tempting as it is, reducing this to such statements loses all sense of nuance and insight into why different people believe in, and vote for, different things. I doubt there are many who are pro Brexit who genuinely believe that living standards will be affected as you claim. They may be mistaken re the long term effects but to think otherwise is again, for me, pure hyperbole.
Wonderful contribution thanks.
Yep that's exactly the point I was making. I've no doubt that for some who voted Brexit this will also be a problem
At a conservative initial cost of £50 Billion, and with potential spiralling onward costs I think it is time for some radical thinking.
A cheaper option would surely be to recreate the homes of all the most ardent brexiteers and the DUP in the Falkland islands. Hire a fleet of airplanes and medical staff to administer a mild dis-associative such as Ketamine and some tranquilisers.
Take them from their homes one night and fly them out there - put them in their re-located homes and let them get on with it.
They could choose to reset the clock back to the 1950's or whatever decade they prefer and will only have to "take back control" from some overly curious penguins, rather than face the modern reality of a global world where borders are becoming meaningless.
They can enjoy the freedom of WTO trade or arrange whatever trade deals they want with friendly local governments such as Argentina or any passing southern right whales.
I'm sure that Arlene Foster can take on the role of Prime minister of "New Brittania" and in no time at all they can choose to ban homosexuals, promote creationism and burn a visiting police offer in a large whicker structure as is their want.
A cheaper option would surely be to recreate the homes of all the most ardent brexiteers and the DUP in the Falkland islands. Hire a fleet of airplanes and medical staff to administer a mild dis-associative such as Ketamine and some tranquilisers.
Take them from their homes one night and fly them out there - put them in their re-located homes and let them get on with it.
They could choose to reset the clock back to the 1950's or whatever decade they prefer and will only have to "take back control" from some overly curious penguins, rather than face the modern reality of a global world where borders are becoming meaningless.
They can enjoy the freedom of WTO trade or arrange whatever trade deals they want with friendly local governments such as Argentina or any passing southern right whales.
I'm sure that Arlene Foster can take on the role of Prime minister of "New Brittania" and in no time at all they can choose to ban homosexuals, promote creationism and burn a visiting police offer in a large whicker structure as is their want.
Have the DUP not yet cottoned on to the fact that the British Government were fully prepared to sell them out? Clearly Theresa was ready to do so and only put the brakes on to safeguard the Tory government.
It`s one of the clearest signs yet that a United Ireland is inevitable.
It`s one of the clearest signs yet that a United Ireland is inevitable.
There will be no positive outcome. Whatever we get will be worse than what we had before Brexit.
Happy days.