So good at just getting the simple aspects out of the way, passing, keeping the ball under pressure, tackling (for his age and experience) but where he lacks, and can easily develop, is the additional aspects required. He played one lovely ball out to the left wing late on in the game which makes me think that the boy can pass - not sure why he doesn't attempt it more often. Herrera, who I thought started brightly, illustrated whats required of both Scott and Pogba with that one defensive splitting pass. I was a little frustrated by his first half performance but he grew into the game in the 2nd.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 23
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 4
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I like him so far. He's good off the ball and gets stuck in which makes him ideal to replace Matic once they both get a bit older. We haven't seen enough of him on the ball yet, too young and lacking in confidence there, but hopefully he'll develop well and not become another Tom Cleverley.
Yes he doesn't try to do much in terms of forward passing and he definitely has more of that in his game, but I think you have to give him credit really, as I think he is closely following his instructions for his role in the team and in any case you would expect that to come with more confidence and time in the first team.
He has done well.
It is just hard to see the makings of a real top player there.
He has done well.
It is just hard to see the makings of a real top player there.
He is ideal for Fellaini's role for lesser wages and also counts in the home-grown quota. If he stays and progresses he'll be a reliable squad player for us.
If he can get to the level Fletcher achieved, I'd be very happy.
And he was a fecking beast at that game. I thought that game was the "start" of his career as United player.
I'm just not sure how a CM can be said to have a superb and fantastic performance when he got no tackles, 1 interception, third least touches of those playing the 90, and in the first half was near the bottom of passes completed. It was the same in the first half last game, near the bottom for both touches and passes completed. Matic almost literally makes twice as many touches and passes as him. He's a CM who barely touches the ball, how can that be claimed to be a superb performance?
Aye. The expectations in which he is judged against seems incredibly low. No other player would get away with impacting the game so little. I know he's young but we haven't seen anything in the seniors or youth systems to suggest he is capable of more.
Good performance last night, his game is very mature for his age and his inexperience.
It's clear that he's been asked to carry out simple tasks so far by the manager, which is the correct thing to do – too many mistakes from being risky at this stage would dent his confidence going forward – currently he's putting in solid and safe performances while building up his experience. I'm sure as he gets more accustomed to first team football he will be allowed to show a bit more inventiveness.
He's playing in a vital position, we cannot afford for him to be trying too many things like we allow Rashford etc as it would cost us goals.
I have been impressed, if not overly inspired. But I understand what he and the manager are doing.
It's clear that he's been asked to carry out simple tasks so far by the manager, which is the correct thing to do – too many mistakes from being risky at this stage would dent his confidence going forward – currently he's putting in solid and safe performances while building up his experience. I'm sure as he gets more accustomed to first team football he will be allowed to show a bit more inventiveness.
He's playing in a vital position, we cannot afford for him to be trying too many things like we allow Rashford etc as it would cost us goals.
I have been impressed, if not overly inspired. But I understand what he and the manager are doing.
He was clearly tasked with closing down Banega as much as possible to thwart his creativity, and he was doing a great job up until the Herrera injury and he was moved to the right. Made his job a little harder.
It's all well and good looking at stats like you have, but they don't show him forcing Banega to turn towards his own goal or stopping him from making a forward pass. That was his job, and he did it well. Closed the space and made Banega move the ball sideways or backwards as often as possible.
He should choose Scotland.
He did a decent job of that. I didn't say he played bad, I'm saying he was in no way superb or excellent like is being claimed. Even still with his job on Banega, Banega still made 10 key passes, which is a ridiculous amount. He also had 2 shots and put in 13 crosses. Banega was still passing through us with ease plenty of times. I don't even need to look at stats to know Banega was all over us at times. Scott had a man marking job but made 0 tackles.
Sevilla's 3 CMs had their most touches. Pogba and Matic had our most touches. McTominay was near the bottom for number of touches. I'm sorry but you don't have an excellent game in CM when you barely touch the ball. And he didn't even make up for it in defensive contribution. He did fine at times pressuring Banega but it comes up far short of a superb performance. Not to mention a man-marking job is one of the easiest roles to have. Phil Jones has done it plenty and is anything but a good CM.
People cant just accept he had a decent game?
Agreed 100%. He still needs to improve in a lot of things, and be more aggressive; but his performance so far is positive.
Agree. The kid is young and very inexperienced so I'll give him a pass right now, but he doesn't do anything that could be classed as a "fantastic".
His passing is average, for a tall guy he's quite lightweight and seems to get knocked around easily. Yes he works hard but what 21 year old kid wouldnt?. He makes a decent back up for when we need an extra body, but he's definitely not the answer to our midfield issues IMO.
Does “touches” literally mean how many times they touched the ball? Or is it how often they were in possession? Matic and Pogba are both often guilty of taking three touches when one would do. In fact that’s been happening a lot recently and is a big factor in our slowwwwww transitions. Do you have any stats for passes/pass completion?
You're missing the point, though. His job was not to get on the ball and create, it was to disrupt their midfield and he did a good job. I have not claimed he was superb in any capacity, and of course he didn't put in an all action midfield performance, but he wasn't asked to either.
I am impressed by his maturity to carry out the task the manager has asked, I am sure he will get better at other things as he gets more experience.
How many times did he win the ball back for us?
I couldn't give you exact numbers but I can remember a few times he won the ball back in our half when Sevilla looked to have a promising opening. But as mentioned in my initial post, his job was to turn Banega and force him to play sideways or backwards, not necessarily to tackle him. In this regard, he did well, especially before Pogba came on.
I dont know how you can possibly have this impression of the match. This was Banega's best game since his 1 great season at Valencia and even then I'm not sure he had any matches where he made 10 key passes, 5 crosses that a teammate got on the end of, 105 passes and 135 touches alongside 5 tackles. This was Ever Banega doing whatever the hell he wanted to do and our midfield didn't give him the slightest issue.
The saving grace for McTominay is, no it wasnt his job to stop Banega alone. He was part of a 3 man midfield who were supposed to do it between them. And just to answer the question you couldnt, McTominay made 0 tackles with 1 interception.
Because I watched the game.
How are you judging Banega's performance against every other game he's played for Sevilla? From stats alone? Or do you watch him in every game? If it's the latter, and that was his best match, then he is seriously overrated.
I'm all for stats in certain discussions, but they don't always give the best picture of how a game went or how a player did.
He's not really a passer kind of midfielder, though I expect him to improve his passing ability which if I have to be honest is average.
He's more of a defensive midfielder with skills that make him a threat up front. This makes his potential to be that of a defensive midfielder + B2B, but not the combative high energy/stamina type of B2B eg. Kante and Herrera, but more of the physical type. Well, his overall football skills set and physical attributes means he's on that route.
He's more of a defensive midfielder with skills that make him a threat up front. This makes his potential to be that of a defensive midfielder + B2B, but not the combative high energy/stamina type of B2B eg. Kante and Herrera, but more of the physical type. Well, his overall football skills set and physical attributes means he's on that route.
Fair pts.
They give a much better impression than your posts clearly.
I watched him every game at Valencia. I dont watch him much at Sevilla. I watched him walk around our midfield like it was a training session last night delivering the ball to his attacking players whenever he wanted to.
Since you have no idea who you are talking about and what he wants to do in a match, Banega usually makes 60 passes this season and under 2 key passes a game. If your plan is to stifle that player and he almost doubles the amount of passes he usually plays and makes over 5 times the amount of passes that put teammates into situations where they had a shot at goal then you've done an awful job.
He did ok in the end, he does a very simple and limited role and not convinced he has ability to do much more than that but that’s not what he is being asked to do.
Needs to win the ball back more though and use the ball a bit better, he seems to panic if there isn’t an obvious pass.
Needs to win the ball back more though and use the ball a bit better, he seems to panic if there isn’t an obvious pass.
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He could be a Khediera
Seems like he's slowly coming out of his shell with more games and showing more of his ability, which is understandable. He had a few nice dribbles to create passing opportunities when he did not have an open pass in the game. For an away performance from a midfielder it was quite good.
Did not lose the ball and showed impressive strength to not get dispossessed which was crucial.
Did not lose the ball and showed impressive strength to not get dispossessed which was crucial.
@youngrell, meet Mcfeckwit. I guess you're unfamiliar with his work. Ever since they took his tagline away he's been flying under the radar.
Would like to commend Mourinho for being bold enough to play him ahead of Pogba. The decision seems justifiable as well, seeing that he was actually playing better than Pogba.
I think you'll find he barely won the ball back for us at all. Don't get me wrong, he didn't have a bad game, but it wasn't anything special. He just doesn't impact the game, offensively or defensively. You could put plenty of players into the side to do that specific job and they'd have faired just as well. He didn't win the ball back, he didn't dictate tempo, he didn't burst forward and beat players, he didn't play with any creativity or get in some goal scoring positions. At this level, you need to be more than just competent in at least one of those areas of the game.
How are key passes measured? And how did he play 10 key passes in a game that saw no goals? What were they key to?
Sevilla had 12 corners, which will probably take up < 90% of his 13 crosses in the game, as well as some key passes no doubt.
Doubling your passes in a game is irrelevant if the opponent is set out to sit back and contain, most likely allowing you to have possession often. How many of those passes were forward and how many were forced sideways or backwards?
What stats won't show is players being forced wide or toward their own goal, attacking avenues being closed off, all of which were things McTominay did.
It's not as simple as you're making out.
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A key pass is one that leads to a shot by the recipient of the pass. If you pass the ball to me just inside the opposition half, then I shoot from 35 yards and hit the corner-flag, you made a key pass and I had a shot. If we repeat this unimpressive scenario several times, you end up with great stats.
If you compare the expected assists scores for certain players to their key passes per 90 mins, you see that some players, Mata for instance, appear to do a lot of passing to players that shoot from long distance.
In simple terms, lots of key passes are of minimal value, while a few create genuine chances to score. Sevilla had perhaps 5 or 6 serious opportunities, 4 of them headers, even then you'd expect De Gea to save 3 of the 4 unless they were near perfect. In reality he saved all 4, with only one requiring a difficult save. Most of Sevilla's 25 shots were from long distance or a tight angle, with a low probability of scoring against an average keeper, never mind De Gea, or Romero.
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I mean, I explained it at the end of the post you quoted so that seems a silly question.
Did we contain Sevilla, or did they have all of the ball and all of the good chances which they didnt take? Clearly some good saves from De Gea and some less than clinical finishing from Sevilla themselves kept it 0-0, it wasnt a lack of clear chances.
Sevilla arent Madrid or Barcelona. Or even Atletico Madrid... Valencia are ahead of them as well...
Sevilla average 12 shots per game, they had 25 against us with 8 on target to our 1.
The next excuse I'm sure will come up, is that shots dont mean anything either because perhaps they were all from 45 yards
12 shots were from inside the box. Sevilla just werent clinical like a top team is likely to be. Because they arent one.
Of those 10 key passes, 2 where long balls where McTominay can't do anything to stop him unless high pressure defending, and another 3 came from crosses, again, he can't defend Banega there
I really hate Key passes as a stat, a lot of set piece takers or no-brainer crossing feed on those stats, 5 is still a considerable amount from Banega, but talks better than McTominay allowing 10 "assists" in one game
Crosses dont count as key passes, they are their own stat so thats complete misinformation.Of those 10 key passes, 2 where long balls where McTominay can't do anything to stop him unless high pressure defending, and another 3 came from crosses, again, he can't defend Banega there
I really hate Key passes as a stat, a lot of set piece takers or no-brainer crossing feed on those stats, 5 is still a considerable amount from Banega, but talks better than McTominay allowing 10 "assists" in one game
If you check out Martial he had 1 cross, 1 accurate cross and 0 key passes. Because a pass from 40 yards from goal is a long pass, its not a cross.
Again its ridiculous to suggest its McTominay's job alone to babysit Banega. He's just one of our midfield that should be able to handle him between them. But at the same time, McTominay did very little defensively on the day.
Stats, stats, stats.... watch the game instead of reading stats. They tell you almost nothing. They don't tell you when he closed down an opponent and forced him to pass backwards or boot it forward. They don't tell you that he was in the right position to receive a pass from a fullback, thereby providing an option even if he didn't actually receive the ball. The don't show that he occupied the space that he was instructed to occupy as per the game plan and provided structure and certainty in an important area. Stats are misleading and given far too much importance by the FM generation.
If Saint Pep the Father of Football does not promote youth, why should we? We should instead spend more money on bringing in world class superstars for every position (starting, bench and squad) because we have to be more like Manchester City.
We can promote a youth player if he is the next Messi, however.
We can promote a youth player if he is the next Messi, however.
Thanks for the explanation.
Backs up my previous comments on these stats being overrated when judging the players' performances in this match. I prefer to judge player performance with my own eyes.
Imagine thinking he didn't do a good defensive job vs Sevilla because a bunch of stats told you so.
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Sir Alex will never forgive him if he picks England.
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