So what is the general feeling among City fans, can their team regroup and make a fight against the scousers? I think that might not be over just yet.
Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Personally I think we are capable of scoring enough goals to go through, but I have real concerns about our ability to keep a clean sheet, which is why I’d make Liverpool such heavy favourites. They score 1 and we need 5, and suddenly it starts to get silly. They’re a top 4 side and top 4 sides rarely concede 5. If you could guarantee to me we’d keep a clean sheet then I’d actually give us a fair chance.
In terms of it being an outstanding achievement, breaking the goals scored and/or points accumulated over a season, whilst clearly not something to be sniffed at, only really becomes relevant if the teams below them this season equally compare, ability wise, to teams from the past. Since there is no discernible way to ascertain that evidence beyond personal opinion, the matter becomes debatable, thus not genuine. Surely for a team to be remembered as a true great of the game, they would achieve something, well, unachievable.
Take your '99 pick as an example, being the only English club ever to win the treble (the league, FA Cup and CL) is a huge, undebatable, achievement. The Invincibles are also able to stake claim, going an enitre season unbeaten in a league as hard fought as the prem takes some serious doing, another huge achievement. Assuming the CL is now out of the question, this best this City team can achieve is a league and cup double. Hardly ground-breaking if we're being honest.
A good team for sure, but by no means a great. Just my opinion mate,
Well, they did concede 5 somewhere before.
Honestly, after City’s humiliation on Saturday it seems that the football Gods will see them through on Tuesday, it’s just what happens isn’t it.
I hope they make it to the CL final, and then get battered by a rampant Real or Bayern. Might be the only way they drop points in the league, and give us the slimmest of chances of stealing the title from under their noses.
We can but I just don't see it.
I think Pep is going to pull a 3 at the back on Tuesday with 2 strikers (which is why he left out Jesus and Aguero for your game). I can see us scoring 2-3 but I don't see us not conceding. I think we might win 2 or 3-1 but I just don't see it ever being close, something like 1-0 city, 1-1 (game over), 2-1 City, 3-1 City, FT. So I think we could get within a goal of them on the final score but I never see us being close to actually getting the result.
That said if we get 2-0 up before the hour mark, I expect us to run them close damn close.
I would say our odds of progressing about about 10% or so.
Yup this is a great season for us but for it to be one of the great seasons, I would say we have to overturn Liverpool and win the CL. 100 points will be remembered as a great achievement (I would say as good as invincibles) but 90 odd I don't think so. I mean Jose has the 95 points record for ages and I genuinely thought Conte set it last season. So unless its a 3 digit number it will just be a great league win but not a "great" league win. I also believe to get 100 points we need at least a draw at Spurs and to win every other game. Anything less than breaking Jose's record and it becomes just another League and LC double and in truth its only a Premier League and League Cup double, something Pellers achieved.
I don't think it can turn into a bad or underwhelming season but also it is very possible it becomes just a good season.
to sum it up.
One of the truly great seasons - Wins the CL from here or hit 100 points
Great season for City but non memorable to the rest - 95-99 pts and no CL
Good season for City and completely unmemorable for the rest - League and LeagueCup without breaking points record.
So basically we've let our chance of greatness slip away in the last week, and this team needs to win 2-3 league titles and a CL to make the step up.
That said its easily the best season for a City fan in my 37 years (unless we manage to lose every game from here on), albeit without a CL it will never match the drama of Mancini's.
You can't really believe we're going to not pick up 6 points from games against Swansea, WestHam, Huddersfield, Brighton and Southampton.
Don't get me wrong, I, like almost everyone else here, have made my peace with ye lot winning the league, and deservedly so. There's always that wee little part of you that hopes for a miracle though
thats true, better to be an optomist. Plus stranger things have happened (just not in football)Don't get me wrong, I, like almost everyone else here, have made my peace with ye lot winning the league, and deservedly so. There's always that wee little part of you that hopes for a miracle though
Food for thought....If Spurs beat City, and we beat West Brom (A game I'll actually be attending), we then play and beat Bournemouth, before City play...We can actually cut the lead down to 7 points before City play Swansea.
Can anyone see the impossible happening?
I would like to see the points gap cut to a respectable figure at least.
Can anyone see the impossible happening?
I would like to see the points gap cut to a respectable figure at least.
Yeah, the pendulum has swung too far the other way now. They’re a great side, it’s just calling them the greatest side before they’ve actually done anything that is stupid.
And tbf, that’s mostly all down to there being a conspicuous lack of narratives this season, and it being a relatively boring and straight forward one in nearly all aspects. It was dreamt up by people paid to talk about football as a way of having something to talk about football, in a season where everything was kinda sewn up by February. Of making a middling season seem interesting and exceptional in some way. Because every season has to be sellable as exceptional and important in some way, because media.
You needed late winners to beat Huddersfield, Southampton and West Ham already this season but agreed there's no chance of things going tits up from here. It would be the biggest collapse of modern times.
Would be pretty satisfying if we could end the season with a bigger gap between us and 3rd than the gap between us and City.
Wow imagine if it did go down to 7, obviously we won't be winning it but a 7 point gap would be fun even for a few hours.
Not gonna lie, the thought of this actually happening brought on a semi.
In all seriousness, if City somehow manage to turn it around against Liverpool on Tuesday night and then go on to win the competition, they will have a legitimate claim to being a truly great side.
Huge if at this point though.
If City blow this lead Pep would legitimately retire from football. Guy lost a few games in a row last season and started having a meltdown, if he was to throw his lead now he'd genuinely combust.
Not a chance in Hell though.
Not a chance in Hell though.
It'll be something like 5-3 to City and one of the messiest but entertaining games of the season.
Yes, pretty much sums up my opinion also, they score a goal and it is game over in my opinion.
Christ man, you have less believe in your team than I do. I think you might pull the impossible, both you and Pool are quality teams, but they are very vulnerable in defense and 2 goals before half time for City is what I predict.
I'd rather the scousers get eliminated mate, I've had enough of the Klopp wankfest to be honest.
From a genuinely curious stand point, at what point do you reckon this kind of (still rather sizeable) achievement, became merely a “Good” one, in the mindset of City fans?
Considering it’ll still be only your 5th ever title, and by far the most impressive (in your 140 year history!) I’m honestly interested in when you think the transition occurred from the “isn’t this all so awesome!” early appreciative revelry, to this more cold eyed, veteran Pro dissapointment at anything less than perfection.
And I’m not criticising it. If anything it’s a shift any club with sights on joining the elite will eventually make. But I am a bit surprised by the speed of it. But then again I’m a fan of a club whose been virtually perma-successful in my lifetime, so maybe I simply have no experience of it? Has it been noticeable? Or simply natural? Could you pinpoint a moment when the bar rose? (For example, I think our second double in ‘96 was when most of us felt European success was the next goal to reach)
I see it like this.
Liverpool are much, much more likely to get eliminated by the other teams than City are IMO, but City are like catnip to Liverpool and the way they're set up so we need to swallow our pride and hope the scousers get through cause there's no way they're winning it.
For me, I've seen us struggle to our only 2 titles in my lifetime so its impossible for it to merely be good in comparison. The United comeback from 8pts ahead to 8pts behind to snatching the league was amazing but in reality, it was 2 teams both bottling it at different times. The Liverpool one saw us on top for feck all of the season (mainly because we had play so many less games till the business end) but it also took an implosion at Palace and a historic slip for us to get the job done. Though both times we showed amazing form to snatch those titles, we struggled over the line.
The only way this can be like that is the same, so out v Liverpool, loss to Spurs and a draw in one our next while United beat West Brom and B'Mouth would see our gap cut to 8 points with 4 to play and could genuinely see us take till gameweek 37 to wrap it up (provided you keep winning). This would be a dampner and would probably be the only way it wouldn't be our best ever season in my lifetime as atm, even given the ropey week we've had we're still cruising home for now.
It's would take a major calamity for us to really see it as anything other than the best season in the clubs history, when I say greatness slip away, I mean our chance of being one of Europes truly great season's, ala Uniteds treble, Pep's 3 at Barca, Heyneckes treble etc.. It will easily be the benchmark for City but in terms of all teams Europe wide it won't even be the best in Europe this season with Barca possibly going to win the CL and go invicible
Klopp is like krypotonite to Pep for some reason, maybe I'm a bit depressed after so many good weeks and suddenly getting kicked in the John Stones twice in a few days. It'll still be our best season.
People talking about a collapse need to stop, the other teams in the league are simply too shit to let City collapse.
That all makes sense. But to zero in on the point a bit more (or salvage it!) at what point did reaching that high, hallowed and exceptionally rare pedestal, become any kind of rational bench mark for success? It wasn’t even something we were aiming for when we did it in ‘99 IIRC. It kind of became a thing by accident between the CL & FA Cup Semis. It’s interesting to me that a burgeoning side like City (who could potentially become a GOAT side with some luck and elbow grease, sure, but are historically still in the very early stages) would consider that a measure of greatness (or even consider the idea of a measure of greatness to begin with!) when it’s something only ever pulled off by one club in each big league, and until a mere 2 years ago, only ever even once by them! They’re literally one in a hundred + occurrences for the biggest and most storied teams in world football. Doubles only slightly less so.
It’s one thing for Madrid to covet La Decima after winning 9 European Cups, but another for Man City to covet the greatness of a Treble, or even just a CL, after winning 2 League titles. It just seems like a huge jump in expectation, and I’m kinda fascinated by the growing pains inherent in that. You know what I mean? It seems like a recipe for disappointment, liable to undermine many a genuine cause for celebration.
And I realise a lot of the “Greatest side ever” nonsense was created by bored journos with nothing else to write about this season, rather than City fans... But there still seems to have been a definitive shift in expectation between your second title and now. And I’m curious as to whether it’s been a seemless natural progress, a partially self induced one, or something largely media encouraged?*
*spoiler: it’s obviously a combination of all those things. But that’s not a fun discussion.
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They're the only club to feature a photo of their manager on team line-up tweets; maybe the fact that 'They. Have. Pep' has led to increased, stratospheric expectations.
I wouldn't say we covet that, at least myself personally, I just understand that we can't consider a season among the truly great seasons until we've achieved what the greatest have (this doesn't just apply to City). Chelsea have some truly great teams but have never had that truly great season imho. I don't think its something Pep is aiming for hence his quarter final comments early in the campaign but ever since Kompany's stupid quadruple comments and journalists constantly asking about it, its kind of followed the club around.
I don't think any City fans with a clue believe the club should do a treble, but tbh it is kind of hard not to think there is an outside chance it could happen when your club are unbeaten in January in the league, have scored something stupid like 120 goals by that time and pretty much everyone this side of the world is saying they are that good.
Our season can't really not be a great one for City, but unfortunately given the way the bar is set for us considering our spending, its match those feats or there will be questions. I also think the expectation that comes with our manager almost demands miracle feats...
I mean Pep won the Bundesliga three times in a row by a combined 39 points (literally could have been 50+ if Bayern had always switched off when the league was done), had 3 CL semis during his time in Germany and some deem it a failure.
So to sum up, its a combination of hugely unrealistic media expectations passed on to fans and club, because of £1.5bn in investment and a manager who is seen as a failure if he doesn't win every game 5-0.
Pretty fair analysis. Kompany’s Quadruple comment was a lot like Kenyon’s “Chelsea will be the biggest club in the world in 10 years” in that it was the absolute very worst thing an employee of a newly flushed money club could possibly say.
At once feeding into all the instant resentment and presumed unearned arrogance, whilst also acting as an endlessly reliable stick to both measure and beat every failure.
At once feeding into all the instant resentment and presumed unearned arrogance, whilst also acting as an endlessly reliable stick to both measure and beat every failure.
Yup especially coming from Kompany, he's City through and through but usually he's well spoken a bit more intelligent in what he says (at least) on camera. I remember at the time thinking he'll have to live with that being thrown in his face every season but its not just him it seems to have snowballed into something people feel City have to do. I'd actually love to know what targets the owners set the club every season.
Tbf, I’d be pretty confident in assuming every sugar daddy owner of every heavily invested club sets wildly unrealistic targets as standard. But if there’s one thing you can’t criticise City’s owners for, its their lack of diligent long term planning. Their investment has been strategically impressive. Surprisingly so. Right down to hiring Peps back room staff as a precursor to luring him. All of which suggests they’re less impetuous than your stereotypical evil owner overlord.
But it still remains to be seen whether they truly understand the difficulty of the shit we’ve just mentioned. Or whether they’ll expect a few CLs or a casual treble as a realistic return on their investment.
Exactly, I'd love to know exactly what they expect of him. for example, they gave him a stay of execution last year and he himself said he was lucky to be in a job. I read somewhere Pellegrini was given a task of 5 trophies in 5 seasons but was always going to be shoved aside for Pep if he would take the job so maybe under less pressure with less expectation than Pep. If we do make a mess of closing out the league and only get in done with a game or two left would the owners be impressed with 1 premiership and 1 LC in 2 years.
I guess when I see how ruthless Abrahimovic is it makes me curious about what kind of targets both ourselves and PSG set our managers by comparison. For example I was shocked Emery got a stay of execution last year after losing a 1 horse race to Monaco. As you said I'd love to know if they realise or how they think with regards to football, especially those owners like our own and PSGs who are from countries where football is not the be all and end all.
A little off topic but I'd also like to know how much they really care. I mean its obvious why they bought us and its obvious from investment they intend to do well, but I'm curious to things like, did the Sheik kick over his chair and curse at the tv yesterday when Smalling scored (if he was watching) and if he did is it because "my money should be more successful" or is he finding a genuine like for the club for more than selfish reasons if that makes sense.
I guess when I see how ruthless Abrahimovic is it makes me curious about what kind of targets both ourselves and PSG set our managers by comparison. For example I was shocked Emery got a stay of execution last year after losing a 1 horse race to Monaco. As you said I'd love to know if they realise or how they think with regards to football, especially those owners like our own and PSGs who are from countries where football is not the be all and end all.
A little off topic but I'd also like to know how much they really care. I mean its obvious why they bought us and its obvious from investment they intend to do well, but I'm curious to things like, did the Sheik kick over his chair and curse at the tv yesterday when Smalling scored (if he was watching) and if he did is it because "my money should be more successful" or is he finding a genuine like for the club for more than selfish reasons if that makes sense.
He was also talking up the "once in a lifetime" opportunity to win it by beating United weeks before such a scenario was confirmed. Pretty small time and arrogant - but long may he keep making predictions
I'd rather not take the risk with the scousers.
Anyway let's hope who ever gets through, gets to play Madrid or Bayern, Barca look very sluggish for some reason.That is correct, Klopp seems to have Pep's number ever since their days in Germany. Let's hope your boys mount up a fight, otherwise it's a very boring CL week with most of the ties decided.
Given what possibly could happen, and we do cut the lead down to 7 points before they play Swansea, it only irks me more and more that we drew those 3 games over Christmas, for me that's where our challenge ended, the hangover from the first Derby and complacency kicking in, grrrr!
From bluemoon, that Fernandinho is suspended for 2 games i think its accumulation of 10th yellow card.
Games against Spurs and Swansea he is missing.
A bit of concerns from bluemoon that things are starting to fall away from them.
Games against Spurs and Swansea he is missing.
A bit of concerns from bluemoon that things are starting to fall away from them.
I think our best form in recent weeks has been with Gundogan sitting deep in place of Fernandinho, to be honest. I love Fernandinho but he has a tendency to make a ten yard burst, miss the tackle, and then end up out of position. Over the course of a season he's worth that occasional mistake but his discipline needs work. Whereas, during his time here Gundogan's revealed himself to be a handy, neat squad player and little more, but in games where we'll need to control the midfield a little better (especially against Spurs) his positional awareness might just be better suited to what we need in this moment. He sat deep against Arsenal and Chelsea last month and we won both games pretty comfortably (3-0, 1-0) without conceding a goal.
He probably was. Mansour is a big fan of football and gets passionate about it.
I'm still annoyed that you've got Gundogan tbh, he's a much better player than he's shown so far but he's already shown decent form.