Pogue Mahone
Swiftie Fan Club President
Can’t even begin to imagine the level of nerd required to notice/care about shit like that. And that’s coming from someone who’s always thought of himself as a nerd.Tweet
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Can’t even begin to imagine the level of nerd required to notice/care about shit like that. And that’s coming from someone who’s always thought of himself as a nerd.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Someone noticed. Someone worked long and hard, and they noticed.Can’t even begin to imagine the level of nerd required to notice/care about shit like that. And that’s coming from someone who’s always thought of himself as a nerd.
Irritatingly, the original comment was deleted.Arguing the film was deliberately bad to prove it was actually good, unironically, is pretty much peak reddit/internet star-warsery
I know very little of the full lore, or the community so I couldn't really comment on that side of things, also I don't dispute the film may be in part talking to its audience but a bad story and a bad film is bad no matter which way the meta of it is painted, it's not like a situation where it is so bad it's good (The Room springs to mind) it's just bad! Equally if the film was saying the story is bad to the audience then it's pretty patronizing!Irritatingly, the original comment was deleted.
Anyway, I don't think it's controversial to say that the film had a lot that was aimed at the audience itself. Especially the parts with Yoda and Luke talking abut changing the jedi and old ways and the Kylo/Rey dialogues about breaking the conflict felt to me like they were aimed directly at fans. Now I was disappointed that after pointing out how repetitive Star Wars is and pointing out that they can go in a different direction, the film by the end gets back to the old ways good vs evil and most damningly and symbolically the Jedi book gets back to Rey in her ship.
That guy was saying that the "return to normalcy" thing was itself intentional - they set up the possibility of deviation and then stopped it. I don't know if I agree but I know others have made the point - I think one of the Redlettermedia videos (probably Rich talking about TFA) basically said that Star Wars, despite being set in a universe of infinite possibilities, cannot go beyond blue v red good v evil lightsabers, tormtroopers, funny droids, tough-but-nice sidekicks, etc. That the basic story outline and characters will not change because the pressure from fans and from the commercial side would be too much.
I mean, they made Luke into a tragic hero and people lost their absolute shit, so you can understand the reticence. I'm hoping the new Rian Johnson stuff moves into new territory, assuming it still gets made.Irritatingly, the original comment was deleted.
Anyway, I don't think it's controversial to say that the film had a lot that was aimed at the audience itself. Especially the parts with Yoda and Luke talking abut changing the jedi and old ways and the Kylo/Rey dialogues about breaking the conflict felt to me like they were aimed directly at fans. Now I was disappointed that after pointing out how repetitive Star Wars is and pointing out that they can go in a different direction, the film by the end gets back to the old ways good vs evil and most damningly and symbolically the Jedi book gets back to Rey in her ship.
That guy was saying that the "return to normalcy" thing was itself intentional - they set up the possibility of deviation and then stopped it. I don't know if I agree but I know others have made the point - I think one of the Redlettermedia videos (probably Rich talking about TFA) basically said that Star Wars, despite being set in a universe of infinite possibilities, cannot go beyond blue v red good v evil lightsabers, tormtroopers, funny droids, tough-but-nice sidekicks, etc. That the basic story outline and characters will not change because the pressure from fans and from the commercial side would be too much.
Doesn't help that when he is filled in on the plan he immediately blabs it to a guy who was a stormtrooper like 2 days ago and their not very trustworthy hacker friend. Kind of justifies not telling the moron.@noodlehair
Whatever about your other points, real-life people in charge of armies wouldn't really think to lay out vital, need-to-know plans to every single person in the army, would they? Seems a bit unnececesary given soldiers are trained to promptly carry out orders without discussion.
As for just telling Poe, he had literally just been demoted hours beforehand for being reckless and stupid. Again, not really someone a real-life person would tell anything to, I'd have thought.
If it's a choice between telling the soldiers, or letting them all believe you are deliberately leading them to their death, I reckon anyone with an ounce of common sense might tell them that there is a plan.@noodlehair
Whatever about your other points, real-life people in charge of armies wouldn't really think to lay out vital, need-to-know plans to every single person in the army, would they? Seems a bit unnececesary given soldiers are trained to promptly carry out orders without discussion.
As for just telling Poe, he had literally just been demoted hours beforehand for being reckless and stupid. Again, not really someone a real-life person would tell anything to, I'd have thought.
What if she thought there was a traitor on the ship?If it's a choice between telling the soldiers, or letting them all believe you are deliberately leading them to their death, I reckon anyone with an ounce of common sense might tell them that there is a plan.
What if she thought there was a traitor on the ship?
He's just wumming Luke, she'd already nabbed them. And the point of her nabbing them is to refute Ben/Ren's idea of killing the past.I just watched it again, it looks glorious in 4k HDR. I enjoyed it both in the cinema and when rewatching it. The Luke bits were great and it did a lot of things I felt the franchise needed.
However it has some huge problems. Those problems mostly being Rey, Finn and Rose. Most of the new characters just aren't very good. Poe is the only one that had any real character development in this film. Finn had his in the last one and really had no place in this, he felt completely shoehorned in. I do not understand the point of Rose in the story at all, I understand more cynical reasons she might be in the film. Not sure cynical is the word I'm looking for. A huge chunk of the film being dedicated to two characters that feel superfluous in a side story that really goes nowhere, where they take out another pointless character is just a complete waste of time in an already overly long film.
Rey is a complete Mary Sue, I don't understand anyone who can argue against this. Even when Yoda turns up he says that there's nothing in the Jedi books Luke had been keeping that Rey didn't already have. She had barely been trained, yet didn't need the books or anyone to guide her. She just had all the powers, skills, piloting ability, ability to understand both droid and wookie and anything else she requires. She is completely virtuous and has no flaws at all. None of this is in line with her background as a scavenger. She's boring and is ruining the story unless they somehow fix her character in episode 9. I really don't care to watch her just turning up and besting the villains with skills/abilities she hasn't earned, but fear that's what's coming. Also how did she end up inheriting the Falcon and get Chewie as her apparent underling? Why's he taking orders from her?
I don't get the complaints about Holdo not telling Poe her plan. Why would she? He just got demoted for insubordination and was openly undermining her authority by questioning her. She had no reason at all to tell him or appear weak by letting him make demands of her.
As a stand alone film, I enjoyed most of it, but it's not left me excited for the next episode, mostly due to the characters still alive I don't give much of a feck about. Except Chewie and he's now just Ray's bitch.
Good point, I'd forgotten she'd taken them then.He's just wumming Luke, she'd already nabbed them. And the point of her nabbing them is to refute Ben/Ren's idea of killing the past.
I thought it was wonderful.This thing really was a car-crash of a movie.
I'm glad you liked it.I thought it was wonderful.
I'm sad that you didn't, but I'm sure as hell happy we can have a friendly conversation on the Internet about it.I'm glad you liked it.
Oh absolutely. I didn't hate it per say, it just didn't hit the right spots for me, and in many ways made me uninterested in the movie before it and the one after it (in the trilogy).I'm sad that you didn't, but I'm sure as hell happy we can have a friendly conversation on the Internet about it.
JJ Abrams is good at setting up questions, hes pretty terrible at giving satisfactory answers to them. I wouldn't be optimistic. I'm glad they gave Rian Johnson the 2nd, hes a far better director imo. It was meant to be a different director for each film anyway.Giving the middle movie of a trilogy to a different director than the other two was suicide. Rian Johnson brought zero satisfactory answers to screen that were set up in Force Awakens. The fact that the entire movie was set during a 'chase' was ridiculous. You had characters involved in this life or death chase swanning off across the universe, visiting casinos and saving animals. It was stupid. I have a little bit of hope that JJ can salvage something from this next installment, but I fear Rian has left him too much work to do.
But he made an absolute mess of TLJ. It's supposed to follow on from TFA but fails miserably, undoing a lot of the groundwork laid down by Abrams.JJ Abrams is good at setting up questions, hes pretty terrible at giving satisfactory answers to them. I wouldn't be optimistic. I'm glad they gave Rian Johnson the 2nd, hes a far better director imo. It was meant to be a different director for each film anyway.
Well that's one opinion, many people enjoyed it though.But he made an absolute mess of TLJ. It's supposed to follow on from TFA but fails miserably, undoing a lot of the groundwork laid down by Abrams.
I did when I first saw it, then I actually thought about it and realised how terrible I thought it was.Well that's one opinion, many people enjoyed it though.
Well everyone is a cineliterate bore these days, quoting "plot holes" from YouTube videos which have passed into memes and become legends. Not one of the original trilogy films would have lived up to today's post movie autopsy, almost no film does.I did when I first saw it, then I actually thought about it and realised how terrible I thought it was.
I guess a lot rides on 8. In many ways it will define what came before.Oh absolutely. I didn't hate it per say, it just didn't hit the right spots for me, and in many ways made me uninterested in the movie before it and the one after it (in the trilogy).
If others enjoy counter strike, who am I to tell them to not enjoy themselves. It would be stupid.
It's lazy film making imo, and I don't think you can find anywhere near as many problems with the original films as you can with VIII. It's disappointing because I actually liked a lot about TFA, and thought that it did a decent job in setting up the new trilogy.Well everyone is a cineliterate bore these days, quoting "plot holes" from YouTube videos which have passed into memes and become legends. Not one of the original trilogy films would have lived up to today's post movie autopsy, almost no film does.
Empire would have been battered for the Millennium Falcon's 'pointless' voyage and Luke's failure.Well everyone is a cineliterate bore these days, quoting "plot holes" from YouTube videos which have passed into memes and become legends. Not one of the original trilogy films would have lived up to today's post movie autopsy, almost no film does.
I’m really not sure that this is true. Whilst pretty much anything can be victim to pedantry, the original films don’t have the fundamental structural and dramatic problems that the prequels and, to a lesser extent, TLJ are plagued by. Yes, elements are hokey, or silly or don’t stand up to forensic examination, but the beats of the original films work and that would be acknowledged.Well everyone is a cineliterate bore these days, quoting "plot holes" from YouTube videos which have passed into memes and become legends. Not one of the original trilogy films would have lived up to today's post movie autopsy, almost no film does.
The pointless voyage of the Falcon is filled with character development beats, as is Luke’s training, that culminate in both plot and emotional pay off.Empire would have been battered for the Millennium Falcon's 'pointless' voyage and Luke's failure.
It's about fighting for something other than your own personal desires. He starts the film wanting to desert purely to save Rey, ends it willing to kill himself for the resistance.The pointless voyage of the Falcon is filled with character development beats, as is Luke’s training, that culminate in both plot and emotional pay off.
The strange side quest of Finn in TLJ results in nothing more than a very strange lesson that noble self sacrifice is less important than love or something or other.
Yeah, I watched it again the other day and Finns story arc was pretty interesting. I didn't like the casino at all in the cinema but 2nd viewing I can understand why it was added in and it wasn't as annoying as I remembered it being. It's just disappointing they went down the love arc with Rose and Finn which wasn't needed, they could/should have been good friends instead.It's about fighting for something other than your own personal desires. He starts the film wanting to desert purely to save Rey, ends it willing to kill himself for the resistance.
I disagree completely. I think he gave far more interesting answers than JJ Abrams (or anyone else really) would have given. JJ's mystery box is interesting until you cop that they all contain a boring predictable cliche or another mystery box. TLJ had a plot and a theme, it didn't need to trade in cheap gimmicks by making absolutely everything a big mysterious secret.But he made an absolute mess of TLJ. It's supposed to follow on from TFA but fails miserably, undoing a lot of the groundwork laid down by Abrams.
Yeah I get that argument, it all felt like it had gone in a completely different direction to TFA for me though. Kind of felt like they were trying to force the jokes too much as well.I disagree completely. I think he gave far more interesting answers than JJ Abrams (or anyone else really) would have given. JJ's mystery box is interesting until you cop that they all contain a boring predictable cliche or another mystery box. TLJ had a plot and a theme, it didn't need to trade in cheap gimmicks by making absolutely everything a big mysterious secret.
No point in arguing anyway.
Yeah, he spent the entire movie fecking with peoples expectations. I can understand how that would annoy people but i just loved it.Yeah I get that argument, it all felt like it had gone in a completely different direction to TFA for me though. Kind of felt like they were trying to force the jokes too much as well.