Kind of explains a lot, actually.One has to wonder how widespread this sort of thing is.
You have to feel for the less privileged kids that couldn't play the system like this.Kind of explains a lot, actually.
Absolutely. It also screws up your society when it's touted as a meritocracy but is filled with idiots in high positions.You have to feel for the less privileged kids that couldn't play the system like this.
Going to one of this prestigious colleges basically set you up for life.
Me? I don't need convincing. I'm ready to start putting heads on spikes if there's a consensus for it.you'll come around soon enough
Teaching your kids to work hard and earn their rewards is how you get the best for your kids. Using money and influence to buy success for them lays hollow foundations that some would argue are starting to crumble here in the west. Give a man a fish, etc.Look at it from the parents POV. They want the best for their children, as the majority of parents do, so the parents will do everything they can. Especially when they have influence, network prowess and money. Can't exactly blame them but it does have a ripple effect on the system.
"We are not talking about donating a building that will make it more likely for your child to get accepted, we're talking about deception and fraud," Mr Lelling said.
Says it all, eh?Irony:
I agree with you, 100%. However, that 5% from your immediate support group can go a long way. It's putting you over the top. There are many, many other top universities that these kids can get into but selectively buying your way into what you want when it's not a level playing field to begin with already is wrong. They can always do their best for two years then transfer.Teaching your kids to work hard and earn their rewards is how you get the best for your kids. Using money and influence to buy success for them lays hollow foundations that some would argue are starting to crumble here in the west. Give a man a fish, etc.
I think it's less of it not being cool, and more of the consequences of cheating, which during my time at school was immediate suspension at the very least, with probable expulsion.BTW, I've noticed cheating in U.S college/university system isn't done and/or considered even "cool" among kids. Maybe it was just my university? Generally teachers didn't care to snoop around and make sure you don't cheat. If you're in the 5th semester of some science major though, cheating doesn't get you far anyway.
I was surprised that at my girlfriends college in Netherlands they put all sorts of strict measures against cheating. No cell phones, leave bags at the front. Grown up 20 year olds being regulated so they don't "cheat" seemed very odd to me.
College (american/throwball) football in the united states is rampant with this. It's not that the athletic scholarship is fake, it's just that the parents paid the university and their "donation" or a lot of it directly goes to their choice of department. In these cases it's the athletic department donation/fund. With that, their child, who could have already been admitted as a regular student or not admitted at all because they couldn't qualify (i.e. wasn't smart enough or testing wasn't up to par), is now part of the team participating in practice, using student-athlete resources (food, equipment, education support, etc.) for 'free'.How does it work with the fake athletic scholarships when the kid shows up and has no athletic ability?
One if the hardest exams I sat in ny life was multiple choice where all the answers were very similar. Harder in that case than if it had just been the questions as it added doubt.Probably one of those multiple choice exams as well. You have to be proper thick to need to resort to cheating with one of those.
True. Also it's not possible to get your whole degree cheating. Maybe but it would be more effort to cheat than to actually study.There is no way this could happen at a D1 school with basketball or football. The sports selected are very suggestive of privilege.
I think it's less of it not being cool, and more of the consequences of cheating, which during my time at school was immediate suspension at the very least, with probable expulsion.
No way any college wastes a limited athletic scholarship in D1 football or basketball on a fraud.College (american/throwball) football in the united states is rampant with this. It's not that the athletic scholarship is fake, it's just that the parents paid the university and their "donation" or a lot of it directly goes to their choice of department. In these cases it's the athletic department donation/fund. With that, their child, who could have already been admitted as a regular student or not admitted at all because they couldn't qualify (i.e. wasn't smart enough or testing wasn't up to par), is now part of the team participating in practice, using student-athlete resources (food, equipment, education support, etc.) for 'free'.
There were plenty of 'student-athletes' that just took up space on the sidelines and looked the part. Couldn't do shit athletically if needed to do so in some functional manner.
Look at the guy in Washington and the people surrounding him.Absolutely. It also screws up your society when it's touted as a meritocracy but is filled with idiots in high positions.
Oh yes they do...D1 scholarships can also be partial, in addition to whole.No way any college wastes a limited athletic scholarship in D1 football or basketball on a fraud.
They'll be breaking out the wheelchairs and fake tears soon , no doubt.I can’t wait to see the list of people. Justice Dept said all 33 are high ranking, wealthy folks.
Rich assholes. I worked my ass off to get into a good college and these folks just use wealth to screw the system. Hope the book is thrown at them.
I can’t wait to see the kids trying to claim that they didn’t know about it.They'll be breaking out the wheelchairs and fake tears soon , no doubt.
They are quite literally obliged by law to take measures to prevent/strictly control the possibility of cheating, is that not a thing in the States? I remember back in the day I couldn't even wear a watch for various exams at university, they were a bit paranoid I guess because I still have no idea how you can cheat with a watch.BTW, I've noticed cheating in U.S college/university system isn't done and/or considered even "cool" among kids. Maybe it was just my university? Generally teachers didn't care to snoop around and make sure you don't cheat. If you're in the 5th semester of some science major though, cheating doesn't get you far anyway.
I was surprised that at my girlfriends college in Netherlands they put all sorts of strict measures against cheating. No cell phones, leave bags at the front. Grown up 20 year olds being regulated so they don't "cheat" seemed very odd to me.
Its not done anywhere. Those in teaching positions tend to have spent a good decade in college working their balls off. They dont take it well when someone tries to cheat their way through.BTW, I've noticed cheating in U.S college/university system isn't done and/or considered even "cool" among kids. Maybe it was just my university? Generally teachers didn't care to snoop around and make sure you don't cheat. If you're in the 5th semester of some science major though, cheating doesn't get you far anyway.
I was surprised that at my girlfriends college in Netherlands they put all sorts of strict measures against cheating. No cell phones, leave bags at the front. Grown up 20 year olds being regulated so they don't "cheat" seemed very odd to me.
we bought a horseLook at it from the parents POV. They want the best for their children, as the majority of parents do, so the parents will do everything they can. Especially when they have influence, network prowess and money. Can't exactly blame them but it does have a ripple effect on the system.
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Season ending injury which gets them red-shirted followed by inability to rehab properly after the first year ends which results in the scholarship being withdrawn and I doubt the school would kick them out since they can afford the tuition fees anyway .How does it work with the fake athletic scholarships when the kid shows up and has no athletic ability?
Google searches will always show you outliers. From my personal experience, majoring computer science, there is not much you can get out of cheating on one paper or assignment. You're just not going to pass all classes if you don't understand the material. For this reason, students knew cheating is futile. Even if they could get through this one quiz, the next class builds upon it and then what.They are quite literally obliged by law to take measures to prevent/strictly control the possibility of cheating, is that not a thing in the States? I remember back in the day I couldn't even wear a watch for various exams at university, they were a bit paranoid I guess because I still have no idea how you can cheat with a watch.
Also, I find the bolded part very hard to believe. Just some quick googling shows that significant percentages of students at various Ivy league uni's admit to cheating, surely plenty of people at every level would do it if they could get away with it?
I think you've misunderstood the issue here. This is cheating on entrance exams, fake athletic scholarships, etc. Once they're accepted, the kids have to do it like everyone else but they got their places at these institutions for money and other, more meritous applicants had to lower their expectations.Google searches will always show you outliers. From my personal experience, majoring computer science, there is not much you can get out of cheating on one paper or assignment. You're just not going to pass all classes if you don't understand the material. For this reason, students knew cheating is futile. Even if they could get through this one quiz, the next class builds upon it and then what.
This is why teachers don't care to enforce the law. They know students won't do it and they are right. This was in my college which is a fairly reputable one in the United States.
That said, I do remember kids cheating in a Freshman Journalism 101 class. That was a joke of a class though with topics mainly being guest lectures. It was also a class of 100+ and ironically this was the one class in which teachers were strict: no caps, no using toilets unless escorted etc.
In my advanced classes I could use the restroom and stuff with my phone in my pocket during the exams. Often the questions were so specific to a scenario cheating really didn't get you the answer and hey if you're good enough to understand a theory in a 10 min bathroom break to apply it to a unique problem you deserve to pass!
Irony:
Basically telling them that they didn't pay enough money or that they paid off the wrong party otherwise everything will be perfectly fine .
I wonder what went through his brain when making that sentence, does he just not see the irony?
I'm talking a total different issue. Mentioned it as "BTW on the topic of cheating". A difference that I saw between states and Netherlands.I think you've misunderstood the issue here. This is cheating on entrance exams, fake athletic scholarships, etc. Once they're accepted, the kids have to do it like everyone else but they got their places at these institutions for money and other, more meritous applicants had to lower their expectations.
I did quite well in a multiple choice entrance exam - my final score was exactly 50%. Especially if it involves negative marks for wrong answers, MCQs can be tough as well.Probably one of those multiple choice exams as well. You have to be proper thick to need to resort to cheating with one of those.
My professors handed us the tests or essay prompts, then went back to their offices.They are quite literally obliged by law to take measures to prevent/strictly control the possibility of cheating, is that not a thing in the States? I remember back in the day I couldn't even wear a watch for various exams at university, they were a bit paranoid I guess because I still have no idea how you can cheat with a watch.
Also, I find the bolded part very hard to believe. Just some quick googling shows that significant percentages of students at various Ivy league uni's admit to cheating, surely plenty of people at every level would do it if they could get away with it?
Taking the thread off topic, eh? Reported.I'm talking a total different issue. Mentioned it as "BTW on the topic of cheating". A difference that I saw between states and Netherlands.