Didn't he lose endorsements due to racism before? I remember Disney etc cutting connections with him because of that!
Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque | 14th March 2019
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I’ve just had a browse on a few spots around the Internet and his fanboys have come out in a rabid defense of him.
It don't know. As distasteful as it is to watch and with the risk it presents as far as inspiring copycats and other weirdos, it's also important to see the horrible reality of this kind of violence. A lot of people seem to be disconnected from it and sometimes that makes it easier to say yes to committing some acts.
*said as someone who has not seen any footage of this attack.
I genuinely don’t know. The only thing I ever knew about him was that he was on that episode of South Park, which was years ago.
Only very recently, when those stupid ‘subscribe to Pewdiepie’ memes started appearing on reddit did I find out that he’s the most subscribed channel on YouTube, so I really don’t know anything about him.
Being repeatedly associated with this sort of people can’t be a coincidence though, as much as some may try to claim otherwise.
Could you give hypothetical examples of some of these prejudices that fall short of being racist?
All I did was quote what you said and ask you a question, how is that putting words in your mouth?
Anyway, you agree with me that racism is more common and a lot of people don't realise it's commonality.
I think it's important to call out racism when you see it because for some they may struggle to identify it in others or in themselves. Your first response to me made out as though i'm wrong for doing this, and your posts seem quite defensive. But the end result is that we actually agree on the matter, you just seemingly take issue with me calling out racism. (i'm not trying to put words in your mouth - that's just how it comes across to me.)
I understand what tolerance is, however I think tolerance should be co-existing with varying opinion on politics, sports, fashion etc - not withholding racial biases against others but still being polite to their face, because it never just stays as a thought - it manifests into actions, not always violent ones either, such as discrimination based on hiring criteria, education, justice etc. That's what the literal definition of racism doesn't point out.
Why do boards like 4chan/8chan attract these weirdos? Until very recently I actually thought those boards were just full of nerds/geeks - programmers/coders, IT people. I don't even know where I got this notion from.
I'm a softie at heart, I cannot take it very well.
He said the n-word during a live stream, made a big apology then the WSJ wrote an article about him and some footage of him dressed up in Nazi uniform making some edgy jokes was drawn out from some corner of his YouTube channel and he started claiming he was a victim of a campaign against him because old media was jealous of his success and of course it all devolved in a big debate about new vs. old media and everything was forgotten but afaik the far right still likes to think he is one of them and sees the competition with that Indian YT channel T Series as some sort of proxy-race-meme-race-war, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, and that is largely imo why they pretend to support him.
Getting mad at Dominicans because they play music loudly into the super late hours of the night. Learned about this one from a friend who’s grown up in Washington Heights, NYC.
Not wanting to live in Waianae, HI because you’re afraid of Hawaiian locals beating your kids up in school. I lived in Hawai’i so I know about this personally.
Indigenous people weary of white people because of stolen land. Literally everywhere where white people aren’t natives.
A few examples... it sucks that it’s like this but the people with these sentiments don’t necessarily believe these other cultures are inferior.
Oh,his fanboys are the weirdest bunch.
Again read what I said, you have reading difficulties I think.
Why would you give a platform that promotes racism and child porn time for? No go look on twitter on how many people are calling out THQ Nordic again for their stupid stunt, so no I’m not the only person. Go look on the various gaming forums too. I didn’t say they were responsible for shootings, which you have trouble reading. Shall I bold it for you?
No moderation. The only content that is removed on 8chan for example is blatantly illegal content, but they have no problem with hate speech and racism that's why. 8chan is even more "tolerant" in that regard than 4chan.
It's beyond depressing knowing he was inspired by other radical terrorists and that he successfully created fantasy murder porn which will inspire more
I get what you’re trying to say and I’m glad you’re trying to clear this up. I actually wanted to ask you the same question.
Now what you’re saying is still problematic in a sense. The complaints you mention, are valid. The issue, however, is that these complaints aren’t made in reference to what is happening, but in reference to race. If you complain about noisy neighbors, that’s ok. But if you complain about Dominican neighbors being noisy, that’s actually racist. Because by specifically mentioning their race, you are suggesting that their wrongdoing is happening at least partly due to their race. And this is, by definition, what racism is.
TO give an example, when I walk home late at night, I sometimes walk through somewhat sketchy neighborhoods. When I happen to come across people looking and acting a certain way, I might get a little afraid something might happen. That’s a valid fear. Streetcrime obviously exists and is an issue. But I’m not afraid because those guys might be brown, white, black or whatever, but because of the way they act and maybe the clothes they wear. Therefore the issue is not race, but the prejudice I have towards a certain kind of behavior. That would qualify as a prejudice that makes sense in a way and to me isn’t racist. So I might try to walk another way.
But if I took their race in any way as a threat, if I felt uncomfortable not because of their behavior, but for who they are, that’s racist.
So be annoyed by noisy neighbors. That sucks. But being annoyed by noisy neighbors and pointing out their race, that’s racism.
These are all examples of racism/bigotry, we can quibble about where they fit on the scale.... but they are all generalisations based on nationality and/or race, and I don't see the reasoning for trying to draw a distinction. Take people as individuals...
That's the fecked up thing, people will be watching that video forever, getting their kicks from it. Some will be inspired by it... and of course it will inspire retaliation too.
Sorry if I sound defensive. I’m just really upset about this event plus I haven’t had my smoke sesh yet. But I don’t know how else to explain myself. Racism is prejudice based on feelings of one’s race being superior. That’s what i go by. Most people just don’t have that superiority complex. One example I can give you is Filipinos. No way in hell they have this feeling of superiority (maybe except the terrorists in the south) but you can be damn sure there are many prejudices both against outside cultures and even among themselves.
Perfect for cowards and carrying out cowardly acts. Shouldn't come as a surprise.
I'm so happy I'm clueless to all this, what a truly fecked up, sad, pathetic world we live in.
WOW! You must be great fun at parties?!
I'm calling BS on your narrative of "work obligations". Recently WWE ran a show in Saudi Arabia (shortly after the murder of Jamal Khashoggi) and some of their talents refused to work the event. Absolutely no reason why players couldn't follow suit for the World Cup?
Your asking other posters at what point do we hold people accountable for their racism, well right back at you? Does that mean every player who took part in the World Cup is racist? I mean they went out of their way to play, endorse and speak about a great tournament in many instances.
Makes sense.
I made the mistake of going to the site last night when this was breaking and nearly threw up.
The filth they were already swimming in was enough to make anyone go insane.
Race and culture go hand in hand though. Of course a cultural trait is not tied to your ethnic genes, but the association is still there. I see your point however. Now I ask you this, if the people who told me about the Dominican loudness are actual proud Dominicans themselves, what would that make them? (This should probably go into the racism thread btw)
By the literal definition of racism, no it’s not. I bet you’ve had prejudice tendencies of your own. Doesn’t mean you’re a racist or a bigot. Else, you accept that literally everyone is a racist. Good luck solving issues of hatred by calling everyone racist if that’s the case.
I was arguing with a couple of them on twitter earlier. They all chant the same mantra (PDP is blameless) but after a few exchanges, deep down they know that even joking can have an affect because of his influence. But they are hardwired in the brain not to question their idol. They simply cannot accept that reality.
Disagree. Yes I've had prejudicial/racial feelings or interactions during my many decades on this planet, and in those moments I was being racist/bigoted/etc... It is what it is. Own it, address it, learn from it...
On here people are too occupied with the "racism" label than the actions that lead to it in the first place. How are we supposed to self examine and learn from our feckries when we spend so much time trying to excuse them or play them down?
This is a very insightful read, a much clearer look into what genuinely motivates and inspires the trolls and what's leading them off the internet into the real world
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/res...rrorism-and-the-christchurch-mosque-massacre/
No worries, it's an emotive subject after all
I understand what you're saying, but I think if you limit racism to the idea of being superior to the other race, then it doesn't accurately describe all aspects of racism - and this is one of the pitfalls (imo) of relying on a dictionary to accurately describe a lived experience.
Thinking [race] are [adjective] because [stereotype], but not doing anything to unlearn that thought process, is still racism - even if nobody is hurt or directly affected by it in the short term, and even if it's a positive thing.
So say you are complimenting and generalising a racial group based on a stereotype - according to the dictionary, you don't think you are superior to them, therefore you're not being racist. The Lukaku chant is the first thing that comes to mind, it was still racist even if it's not an insulting song.
edit - anyway this was fun but we're probably derailing the thread and I intend on getting drunk in the next hour, go smoke!
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No offense, I know how you probably mean it, but I have repeatedly seen this pop up in discussions as if it was some kind of comforting news. I just can't see it this way at all. It's not wrong to make observations about historical relativity, but for a realistic picture of our times I find it much more important to take a square look at the absolutes first. And the outcome for the last 50 years is almost inconceivably horrible, what happened before doesn't change that.
Whatever amplification a singular incident might get through modern media technology, it still has nothing to do with the scale on which violence actually happens in our world. What I find most noticeable is the level to which we're accustomed to these horrors happening, as long as they don't take place in our immediate surroundings.
There are more factors that lead to racism than just a preconceived notion that all people are born with. It’s the hate that is learned. We need to address what really leads to hate and I think that is more effective.
Personally, I would not have attended the World Cup. At least that’s what I like to think I’d have done.
And obviously, not every player attending is racist.
The sensible decision would be a boycott. I understand those, who don’t, as they face possible legal and professional repercussions due to a boycott. The downside is incredible and I understand why one would refuse a boycott. Also I understand that this event might be something they have worked for basically their whole lives. Stripping them of what could possibly be the crowning achievement of their whole life, is a lot to ask of someone.
So another sensible option would be to attend under protest. To try to shine a light on humanitarian issues while still in the spotlight. To align yourself with those, who’s voices we don’t hear. But yes, silently attending an event like this, having your reputation and celebrity be used as a tool for a regime like this, is problematic.
But actively seeking the friendship and companionship of those responsible for all those issues, is not just problematic. It’s an endorsement of ideology that carries much more weight and consequences. A person deciding to do that, is not just a bit of a coward, but actively demonstrates at best indifference towards cruelty, at worst it’s an ideological alignment.
So I would say there is a huge difference.
@Florida Man
I feel we’ve basically reached a point of agreement, so I’ll try to keep it short.
I want to point out, that I was in no way teying to reference appearance typical to certain cultures, but a general appearance that can be related to gang violence, which is actually somewhat of an issue where I live. So I try to keep away from those who I suspect of that.
Also, it is possible to be racist towards once own race. So that can actually be the case. In the same way, that there are gay people who are openly homophobic. It’s a complicated issue, though.
But thanks again for the calm clarifications. That’s it from me for today, I have to get ready.
Not gonna argue with you there....
This friend of yours, did he/she grow up in the Heights?
If he/she did, I find it very hard to believe they get mad at the nightlife culture in Uptown. It's been that way forever.
If he/she is a transplant, then they, and all the gentrifiers, can feck off. They recently closed all my favorite hang out spots in the area. Including La Marina. cnuts.
Definitions exist for people to use words in proper context. Racism is racism, prejudice is prejudice. As long as cultures are different, and as long as people look different from each other, then forms of prejudice will exist. What turns a prejudice feeling into hate is a combination of factors, and it’s those other that should be addressed more. Not being loved enough is probably a huge reason among many.
Both of them have grown up there. One was born there, the other is from the DR and has the strongest Dominican accent I’ve ever heard. Both of them basically complained that it was so crowded and loud, so they move away for a different lifestyle.
This. I had the pleasure of having people at work today come up to me and try to show me the video. Then listen as other people gathered around on a break and watched the full thing. How can we be so desensitized to violence that this is a normal group reaction. Morbid, callous, fecks.
I am surprised (or perhaps not) on such long arguments on what comes under the purview of racism and what does not. Person X might consider not having any non-white friends as racism and person Y considers it racism only when someone uses the N-word towards someone.
Person X sees racism when someone dislikes a food of an ethnic region while person Y sees racism only when someone attacks a person of a particular ethnicity.
Does it really matter if some act of hatred is called racism or called just hatred or xenophobia?
Person X sees racism when someone dislikes a food of an ethnic region while person Y sees racism only when someone attacks a person of a particular ethnicity.
Does it really matter if some act of hatred is called racism or called just hatred or xenophobia?
Nothing surprising. Humans have a tendency to be interested in a disaster.
In Brain Games or some program on TV, they showed a video of a man whose parachute malfunctioned and he was crashing on to a tree. They kind of cut out the video seconds before he hits the tree. But from the trajectory, it was obvious he was going to bang crash into the tree.
But most of the people who participated in this video watching, were desperate to see the whole video.
That's very disturbing and abnormal behaviour, in my opinion. I can understand people looking at it on their own (I think), but to make a public "viewing" is something else. It's worrying that people think that's an acceptable thing to do.
How would they feel if it was their family member being murdered there? Would they want total strangers gawping at the suffering of their loved ones just for some kind of perverse thrill? We all know that many people have been shot dead, we certainly don't need to see them dying. Give them a little dignity, for heaven's sake.
That subreddit has gone private now, thank feck.
I can get the curiosity, people maybe watching for a few seconds, before getting a hold of themselves, truly realizing it is not a video game/tv/movie fantasy, but real people being brutally murdered. Hardly a new phenomenon I suppose, crowds used to turn up en masse for hangings/executions.
This morning before I went to work, I was reading some stuff on Twitter but spent most of my time pausing that video and reporting tweets posting it. The thought of what happened there is so brutal, to me, I can't imagine wanting to watch it.