Dear god. It’s true!It make sense now
Dear god. It’s true!It make sense now
so what was the plan for the Irish border?A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.
36:57
Wouldn't that be great.@vidic blood & sand do you think we're going to revoke article 50 then?
Cue Arsene Wenger memesApparently not.
No, it should be "In" or "Out".
I'm not aware of any lies.
How did you manage that quantum leap of a conclusion? You can't educate stupid adults . You can focus on properly educating their (and everyone else's) children. That's the only solution.What? Are we back to talking about 'voluntary' euthanasia again?
Apparently? Based on what?Apparently not.
What does "out" mean? In your words.No, it should be "In" or "Out".
I'm sure the sterling losing >10% of its value to the dollar, the Japanese carmakers pulling out, the deals EU had with other parties that were so easy to get rolled over yet we haven't... and all of that before we have actually exited..were not exactly part of the Leave promises. Closer in-line with project fear, I would argue. Although that was exaggerated as well.I'm not aware of any lies.
EU law dictates that the EU cannot negotiate a future relationship with a country while that country is still part of the block. Hence the WA is about the UK leaving, after which we can negotiate the future relationship.A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.
Many leavers are and were both misinformed (blatantly lied to) and deceived. That many still cling to the bullshit is depressing but hardly unexpected.Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
"no u"Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
I can think of 350 million lies without even googling.Apparently not.
No, it should be "In" or "Out".
I'm not aware of any lies.
Was going to reply to him along similar lines, but decided any form of engaging is pointless. You either get it or not. It's extremely basic economics , however I suppose a certain level of aptitude is required to grasp these fundamental concepts.Many leavers are and were both misinformed (blatantly lied to) and deceived. That many still cling to the bullshit is depressing but hardly unexpected.
And it is already an economic car crash. But the main economic damage will be long term as we become increasingly isolated and irrelevant.
Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:so what was the plan for the Irish border?
@vidic blood & sand you said there was a plan in place when you voted the first time. So what was it?Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"
So, which is it sir?
Slow roasted clusterfeck with a sectarian jus.Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"
So, which is it sir?
350 million per day saving so we can have all the gold that we can eat."Turkey will join the EU".
"German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal."
"Breaking point."
It’s more that people with the literacy skills of eight year olds don’t generally get promoted.Because the scouts promote posters they like and will generally like posters with similar views to their own. Because they're human.
The first guy is the most English looking person I’ve ever seen.Reminds me of this from (from 2010)...
The reality of their vote is that they believed the lies, propaganda and mythical £350m per week being pumped into the NHS, which, no doubt would filter down to them.Old people who voted for Brexit having fewer people to take care of them? Should've thought about that before they voted Leave.
Thats a great video, that disregards the fact that those jobs were being done by british people......before they were done by immigrants.That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiots
Of course they were sold a pack of lies. The elderly are easily victimized by con men and scam artists, which is basically the entire Leave campaign, but if they're going to vote, they can't be absolved of blame. Much like American baby boomers, they've voted what for what they believe to be best for them despite all the conspicuous evidence to the contrary, consequences for future generations be damned. It's not a new phenomenon with the elderly or conservatives generally: dreaming of returning to a glorious time that never existed.The reality of their vote is that they believed the lies, propaganda and mythical £350m per week being pumped into the NHS, which, no doubt would filter down to them.
The problem with some of the posts in here is they are anachronistic and do not consider those old Brexiters were sold so many lies they bought into as to completely make the here and now reality redundant - at the time, what they were duped with was a promised land that would appeal to them the most of all demographics, if you think about it, almost to the point of it being a no-brainer to leave. How many of those, if they're even still alive, would now either abstain or vote against leaving with the information in front of them and clarity of how their actions would directly, and negatively, impact them?
A corrupted referendum that pilfered so many leave votes it otherwise wouldn't should be revoked and the whole thing either done over again or tossed out entirely.
Great posts @Penna you've echoed my sentiments exactly over the last few pages.
Can I ask what you mean here? As in, there was no project fear in the first place, or said project fear hasn't occurred?Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
Of course lies and deceit are par for the course in securing votes, but beyond a certain extent, boosted by illegally funded propaganda, can you blame them for voting for their utopian ideal?Of course they were sold a pack of lies. The elderly are easily victimized by con men and scam artists, which is basically the entire Leave campaign, but if they're going to vote, they can't be absolved of blame. Much like American baby boomers, they've voted what for what they believe to be best for them despite all the conspicuous evidence to the contrary, consequences for future generations be damned. It's not a new phenomenon with the elderly or conservatives generally: dreaming of returning to a glorious time that never existed.
It was a historic mistake to put such a simple question to a referendum without proper context. It allowed hucksters like Farage, Rees-Mogg, and Boris to weave an elaborate web of lies, which unfortunately millions of people bought. If David Cameron weren't a colossal moron, the referendum would've been posed once the terms were understood. The corruption of the process by Leave, Banks, Russia, et al is enough to warrant revoking A50 and calling a new referendum on the terms of May's deal. Sadly, Brexiters know they would lose any subsequent vote on the issue.
It's absolutely mind-boggling, even now - 'the will of the people' with the asterisk glaringly absent is leading the country into potential chaos and nothing is being raised about how that has come about.@Fortitude, I reckon in years to come the whole Brexit mass deception issue will be the subject of many university theses. Mind-boggling lies and hyperbole from the leave campaign, and they got away with it.
I think you got a bit of push back for saying you would support the reintroduction of the death penalty? It was when the thread got sidetracked on euthanasia and corporal punishment. I'm not sure if folk were abusive to you but I can certainly see why there would be strong opinions against the death penalty being reintroduced in the UK.This is pretty much what ive observed from this thread. I voted remain but I similarly got a fair few patronising comments just from saying (and explaining why) I agreed with @Strachans Cigar on a couple of things.
You can look back through my posts in this thread if you dont believe me that I am a remain voter, and I am as passionate about the subject as anyone. A lot of the regulars in this thread however, are in a complete echo chamber where they can collectively nitpick and desperately poke holes in whatever someone else says, and then collectively congratulate themselves whilst questioning why none of the leavers can be bothered to keep responding.
Admittedly I enjoyed watching it at first, clenching my fists and shouting "take that, leaver!" as they got shouted down one by one, but over time (probably due to emotions continuing to rise as the various deadlines have approached/come/gone) it has degenerated from massively biased to simply hostile.
No
If you listen to what Cameron says at 2:34, he explains that the referendum would be to stay in the EU or come out altogether.
It's very clear what the referendum was about, and the government is now overruling the democratic vote. Doesn't this trouble any of you?
This doesn't make sense. You have to leave before you can negotiate a free trade deal. You don't seem to want to leave.A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.
36:57
Absolute bollocks.Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
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Apparently not.
No, it should be "In" or "Out".
I'm not aware of any lies.
I think that some people still fail to understand how society work. The Withdrawal agreement is simply meant to fix some of the issues that will occur when the UK leaves, some people and companies will inevitably find themselves in trouble from a legal and practical standpoint and the withdrawal agreement is supposed to help fix that. The only reason the UK hasn't left yet is because they are aware of these issues and refuse to accept their consequences which is understandable.This doesn't make sense. You have to leave before you can negotiate a free trade deal. You don't seem to want to leave.
I know the Uk likes to negotiate with itself but this is taking things a bit too far. You are still part of the EU, what are you going to do, sit on one side of the table as the UK and then go around the table and sit on the EU side?
Two other points, the bad deal is no deal and a FTA is not your biggest problem by any stretch of the imagination and solves very little. You'll start negotiating that as soon as you leave if you don't lie.
Witty response as usual from the "I don't have time for elaborate answers but I do have time for 2000 posts in this thread" hypocrite.Such a crap analogy that
I see the WA as a stepping stone to the next stage whereas I have the impression that large parts of the UK see it as the final deal and it's not good enough for them.I think that some people still fail to understand how society work. The Withdrawal agreement is simply meant to fix some of the issues that will occur when the UK leaves, some people and companies will inevitably find themselves in trouble from a legal and practical standpoint and the withdrawal agreement is supposed to help fix that. The only reason the UK hasn't left yet is because they are aware of these issues and refuse to accept their consequences which is understandable.
A subsequent FTA or CU will always be an option and they will be in line with what both sides want from it, no one is going to force anything on the other but until these deals are sealed people and companies will still be living and working, and they will have to know which rules they are supposed to respect and where aka the WA.
I think the most laughable thing is that in true hard Brexiteer fashion, he comes in, drops some (to put it mildly) bollocks statements and when he gets challenged on them he vanishes into thin air.
I mean, you have to laugh. Don't you?