Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
vidic blood & sand said:
I think we're heading for a second vote. The EU, Labour, Lib Dems, and majority Conservatives want it. May has promised numerous times it won't happen, which means it's guaranteed to happen. Probably next year after an extension. The EU would agree to an extension if there was a re-vote.
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if we do that I hope the brexiters put a plan in place this time so people know what they're actually voting for
 
MadMike said:
Since you asked. Well firstly referenda are non-binding and Cameron along with his cabinet are no longer in govt so his words on this matter little. But still, from my POV, the decision taken by the public to trigger A50 can only be reversed by the public.
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Apparently not.

Hence I'm for giving a confirmatory referendum with the options of: No Deal, May/Corbyn's Deal and Revocation as the options. Rather than government revoking on their own.
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No, it should be "In" or "Out".

I don't see how that would be a failure of democracy then. Especially when you take into account that most claims found in the Leave.EU manifesto have proven to be lies and the campaign were found to have cheated as well.
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I'm not aware of any lies.
 
Tarrou said:
if we do that I hope the brexiters put a plan in place this time so people know what they're actually voting for
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The plan was in place, but a remainer fecked it up. The focus changed to securing a deal, which has become more important than actually leaving.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I think we're heading for a second vote. The EU, Labour, Lib Dems, and majority Conservatives want it. May has promised numerous times it won't happen, which means it's guaranteed to happen. Probably next year after an extension. The EU would agree to an extension if there was a re-vote.
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That doesn't sound like an undemocratic tragedy
 
Carolina Red said:
Reminds me of this from (from 2010)...
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That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiots
 
caid said:
That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiots
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You can't do anything about stupid people . You can do something about their children.
 
caid said:
What? Are we back to talking about 'voluntary' euthanasia again?
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How did you manage that quantum leap of a conclusion? You can't educate stupid adults . You can focus on properly educating their (and everyone else's) children. That's the only solution.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Apparently not.
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Apparently? Based on what?
vidic blood & sand said:
No, it should be "In" or "Out".
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What does "out" mean? In your words.

And if it means no-deal Brexit then:
a) Why not call it that?
b) What happens to the border in Ireland and..
c) Why not give the people the option to choose May's deal?

People might want compromise even if you don't.

vidic blood & sand said:
I'm not aware of any lies.
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I'm sure the sterling losing >10% of its value to the dollar, the Japanese carmakers pulling out, the deals EU had with other parties that were so easy to get rolled over yet we haven't... and all of that before we have actually exited..were not exactly part of the Leave promises. Closer in-line with project fear, I would argue. Although that was exaggerated as well.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.
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EU law dictates that the EU cannot negotiate a future relationship with a country while that country is still part of the block. Hence the WA is about the UK leaving, after which we can negotiate the future relationship.

The option FTA or no deal, never existed in the real world.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
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Many leavers are and were both misinformed (blatantly lied to) and deceived. That many still cling to the bullshit is depressing but hardly unexpected.

And it is already an economic car crash. But the main economic damage will be long term as we become increasingly isolated and irrelevant.
 
"Turkey will join the EU".

"German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal."

"Breaking point."
 
Wibble said:
Many leavers are and were both misinformed (blatantly lied to) and deceived. That many still cling to the bullshit is depressing but hardly unexpected.

And it is already an economic car crash. But the main economic damage will be long term as we become increasingly isolated and irrelevant.
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Was going to reply to him along similar lines, but decided any form of engaging is pointless. You either get it or not. It's extremely basic economics , however I suppose a certain level of aptitude is required to grasp these fundamental concepts.
 
Tarrou said:
so what was the plan for the Irish border?
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Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"

So, which is it sir?
 
MadMike said:
Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"

So, which is it sir?
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@vidic blood & sand you said there was a plan in place when you voted the first time. So what was it?
 
MadMike said:
Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"

So, which is it sir?
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Slow roasted clusterfeck with a sectarian jus.
 
Sir Matt said:
Old people who voted for Brexit having fewer people to take care of them? Should've thought about that before they voted Leave.
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The reality of their vote is that they believed the lies, propaganda and mythical £350m per week being pumped into the NHS, which, no doubt would filter down to them.

The problem with some of the posts in here is they are anachronistic and do not consider those old Brexiters were sold so many lies they bought into as to completely make the here and now reality redundant - at the time, what they were duped with was a promised land that would appeal to them the most of all demographics, if you think about it, almost to the point of it being a no-brainer to leave. How many of those, if they're even still alive, would now either abstain or vote against leaving with the information in front of them and clarity of how their actions would directly, and negatively, impact them?

A corrupted referendum that pilfered so many leave votes it otherwise wouldn't should be revoked and the whole thing either done over again or tossed out entirely.

Great posts @Penna you've echoed my sentiments exactly over the last few pages.
 
caid said:
That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiots
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Thats a great video, that disregards the fact that those jobs were being done by british people......before they were done by immigrants.

I worked in a veg packing factory on the weekends in 1997 just after my son was born to get some extra cash in to cover the short fall from the wife being on maternity leave, I was grading onions for 10 hours a day saturday and sunday with 99% british lanour, before going back to my monday to friday job (killing chickens in a chicken processing plant which ironically is now all staffed by predominantly by immigrants) where i worked with 99% british labour.
 
Fortitude said:
The reality of their vote is that they believed the lies, propaganda and mythical £350m per week being pumped into the NHS, which, no doubt would filter down to them.

The problem with some of the posts in here is they are anachronistic and do not consider those old Brexiters were sold so many lies they bought into as to completely make the here and now reality redundant - at the time, what they were duped with was a promised land that would appeal to them the most of all demographics, if you think about it, almost to the point of it being a no-brainer to leave. How many of those, if they're even still alive, would now either abstain or vote against leaving with the information in front of them and clarity of how their actions would directly, and negatively, impact them?

A corrupted referendum that pilfered so many leave votes it otherwise wouldn't should be revoked and the whole thing either done over again or tossed out entirely.

Great posts @Penna you've echoed my sentiments exactly over the last few pages.
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Of course they were sold a pack of lies. The elderly are easily victimized by con men and scam artists, which is basically the entire Leave campaign, but if they're going to vote, they can't be absolved of blame. Much like American baby boomers, they've voted what for what they believe to be best for them despite all the conspicuous evidence to the contrary, consequences for future generations be damned. It's not a new phenomenon with the elderly or conservatives generally: dreaming of returning to a glorious time that never existed.

It was a historic mistake to put such a simple question to a referendum without proper context. It allowed hucksters like Farage, Rees-Mogg, and Boris to weave an elaborate web of lies, which unfortunately millions of people bought. If David Cameron weren't a colossal moron, the referendum would've been posed once the terms were understood. The corruption of the process by Leave, Banks, Russia, et al is enough to warrant revoking A50 and calling a new referendum on the terms of May's deal. Sadly, Brexiters know they would lose any subsequent vote on the issue.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
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Can I ask what you mean here? As in, there was no project fear in the first place, or said project fear hasn't occurred?

It hasn't occurred yet because you are still in the EU.
 
Sir Matt said:
Of course they were sold a pack of lies. The elderly are easily victimized by con men and scam artists, which is basically the entire Leave campaign, but if they're going to vote, they can't be absolved of blame. Much like American baby boomers, they've voted what for what they believe to be best for them despite all the conspicuous evidence to the contrary, consequences for future generations be damned. It's not a new phenomenon with the elderly or conservatives generally: dreaming of returning to a glorious time that never existed.

It was a historic mistake to put such a simple question to a referendum without proper context. It allowed hucksters like Farage, Rees-Mogg, and Boris to weave an elaborate web of lies, which unfortunately millions of people bought. If David Cameron weren't a colossal moron, the referendum would've been posed once the terms were understood. The corruption of the process by Leave, Banks, Russia, et al is enough to warrant revoking A50 and calling a new referendum on the terms of May's deal. Sadly, Brexiters know they would lose any subsequent vote on the issue.
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Of course lies and deceit are par for the course in securing votes, but beyond a certain extent, boosted by illegally funded propaganda, can you blame them for voting for their utopian ideal?

Isn't this the biggest set of lies the British public have been sold with regard to a public vote? As soon as the illegality of the campaign came to light it should have been voided, and if needs be, re-run. That it has just stood with nary a word said is scandalous.

Older folk who are susceptible have swayed the vote and taken it over the line. Their vote, in and of itself, is not an issue, but how it has been procured should have been front page news.

The bolded simply shouldn't be in their hands. It is not democratic process at all how things have been allowed to run on rotten foundation to this point in time beggars belief.
 
@Fortitude, I reckon in years to come the whole Brexit mass deception issue will be the subject of many university theses. Mind-boggling lies and hyperbole from the leave campaign, and they got away with it.
 
Penna said:
@Fortitude, I reckon in years to come the whole Brexit mass deception issue will be the subject of many university theses. Mind-boggling lies and hyperbole from the leave campaign, and they got away with it.
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It's absolutely mind-boggling, even now - 'the will of the people' with the asterisk glaringly absent is leading the country into potential chaos and nothing is being raised about how that has come about.

It should be a lesson that is etched in the collective consciousness for decades, so I hope it isn't swept under the rug in future as it has been in the here and now. It would be fantastic if the deceit was surgically deconstructed and its full extent revealed via thesis.
 
Walrus said:
This is pretty much what ive observed from this thread. I voted remain but I similarly got a fair few patronising comments just from saying (and explaining why) I agreed with @Strachans Cigar on a couple of things.

You can look back through my posts in this thread if you dont believe me that I am a remain voter, and I am as passionate about the subject as anyone. A lot of the regulars in this thread however, are in a complete echo chamber where they can collectively nitpick and desperately poke holes in whatever someone else says, and then collectively congratulate themselves whilst questioning why none of the leavers can be bothered to keep responding.

Admittedly I enjoyed watching it at first, clenching my fists and shouting "take that, leaver!" as they got shouted down one by one, but over time (probably due to emotions continuing to rise as the various deadlines have approached/come/gone) it has degenerated from massively biased to simply hostile.
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I think you got a bit of push back for saying you would support the reintroduction of the death penalty? It was when the thread got sidetracked on euthanasia and corporal punishment. I'm not sure if folk were abusive to you but I can certainly see why there would be strong opinions against the death penalty being reintroduced in the UK.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.



36:57
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This doesn't make sense. You have to leave before you can negotiate a free trade deal. You don't seem to want to leave.

I know the Uk likes to negotiate with itself but this is taking things a bit too far. You are still part of the EU, what are you going to do, sit on one side of the table as the UK and then go around the table and sit on the EU side?

Two other points, the bad deal is no deal and a FTA is not your biggest problem by any stretch of the imagination and solves very little. You'll start negotiating that as soon as you leave if you don't lie.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.
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Absolute bollocks.

Anyone with a working cell knew leaving wouldn't be as straightforward or easy as suggested. They also knew what chaos and expense it would cost. The same knew how difficult Europe would make leaving for us.

Over the last 3 years since the vote all that has been accomplished is billions has been spent, the country has become more divided and the Tory government has been allowed to cripple the NHS, the Police force, pensions and benefits systems and give as little as possible to infrastructure. Meanwhile they have got away with this because all they have had to do is argue about Brexit. The country has been decimated while it's been distracted. Where if we had voted remain, then the government may have actually had to govern and the focus would have actually been on them doing their job.

I also suggest you speak to the fishermen who are now incandescent with rage after finding out they were conned over fishing rights. Mind you, most remainers knew they were being lied too, but their cause was jumped upon by leave who must have known full well they couldn't effect the fishing rights if we voted out.
 
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