Which is why the ERG are terrified of a 2nd referendum. At best, they'd get a very watered down Brexit. At worse, A50 would be revoked.Tweet
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Nope. There is no historical data on what would happen if the Earth flew into the sun. So until you provide historical data, Im going to think it’s a great idea.Quite sure there is data of other large rocks that have got too close to the sun so crap analogy.
So basically the Spanish government has done more to help the British people in Spain deal with Brexit than the British government has done to help British people in Britain deal with it.The Spanish have done stuff to protect their tourist industry and to try and manage the British expats living in Spain.
A lot of it's very mundane stuff designed to get them through the holiday season, like not insisting that UK tourists have an international driving permit as well as their current UK/EU version photo licence. They've also promised to maintain the current EHIC - emergency medical cover scheme for tourists. Basically a bunch of things done to get us through a few months of no-deal without killing their tourist industry or turning their hospitals into financial gatekeepers.
For residents it's to give the changeover time longer - easier to convert UK driving licence to Spanish, continuation of current health cover whether that's cover because you're working or paying into the social security or because the UK government has transferred your (pensioner) health cover to Spain. Continuation of current tax arrangements for pensions and other income. Transitional stuff with a time limit set (3 to 12 months on most of it) to give people a chance to regularise their status - or to leave if they realise that they can't.
All with the proviso that the UK must make the same emergency reciprocal agreements to protect Spanish nationals in the UK.
It's not obvious what they'll do if they can't get Spanish strawberries etc into the UK in a timely manner or how they'll handle Gibraltar etc - basically they're just delaying the cliff edge and hoping that we'll do the same.
Yeah people are all certain of the doom and gloom. The recession is coming, and the brexit chaos is gonna sweep us all away.Vidic blood & sand out ownin’ the libs tonight apparently.
I'm glad you find this absolute mess amusing. Go VB&S!Yeah people are all certain of the doom and gloom. The recession is coming, and the brexit chaos is gonna sweep us all away.
We're doomed!
It is only how big a disaster it Is going to be that is debatable as it is already an economic, social and political disaster of fairly epic proportions.Yeah people are all certain of the doom and gloom. The recession is coming, and the brexit chaos is gonna sweep us all away.
We're doomed!
The mess is the government not carrying out the will of the 51.5%.I'm glad you find this absolute mess amusing. Go VB&S!
Political disaster yes, because parliament doesn't want us to leave. They have blocked no deal, and voted against all deals.It is only how big a disaster it Is going to be that is debatable as it is already an economic, social and political disaster of fairly epic proportions.
Economic hits are coming one after the other and debatably a lack of confidence has also resulted in lower spending that has pushed vulnerable businesses like Debenham's to the brink. Other firms are leaving our shores or preparing to do so. And socially is has been a clusterfeck.Political disaster yes, because parliament doesn't want us to leave. They have blocked no deal, and voted against all deals.
It's being blocked by hard leavers ffsPolitical disaster yes, because parliament doesn't want us to leave. They have blocked no deal, and voted against all deals.
Rubbish. The mess was started by ludicrous political bribery from Cameron that backfired. May has doubled down by being so wildly incompetent as to agree to leave without a plan to do so and then without a willingness to build a political consensus untill mins before we lurch out.The mess is the government not carrying out the will of the 51.5%.
Unbelievable.Rubbish. The mess was started by ludicrous political bribery from Cameron that backfired.
May's deal has been rejected by leavers because they don't see it as leaving. However, some are preferring it now to remaining, as an alternative.It's being blocked by hard leavers ffs
It wasn't a backfired policy. It was a backfired political bribe to keep the hard right of the Tory party onside. He wasn't forced to do anything. He made a gamble that looked like a sure thing and he was horribly wrong.Unbelievable.
The country voted to leave, and you see it as a backfired policy. How democratic. Cameron was forced to include the referendum in his manifesto because EU skepticism was gaining so many votes for UKIP, he wanted to win them over.
As a remainer it was obviously a gamble, but in order to win over the UKIP voters and get a majority government, he promised a referendum. He saw the EU as flawed and in need of reform because the British people were showing their dissatisfaction. Internal party differences have been a factor for years.It wasn't a backfired policy. It was a backfired political bribe to keep the hard right of the Tory party onside. He wasn't forced to do anything. He made a gamble that looked like a sure thing and he was horribly wrong.
They're panicking that they've overplayed their hand, yes. But there's still a hardcore who are blocking it. It's not remainers stopping this happening, there are enough votes from those who backed it last time and brexiters to put it through.May's deal has been rejected by leavers because they don't see it as leaving. However, some are preferring it now to remaining, as an alternative.
Apart from the fact that those hard brexiteers have failed to articulate in these 3 years a solution to the Irish border problem that works with their vision of Brexit, the no-deal Brexit they are now championing comes up in all polls as the least desirable option among the electorate. Therefore their "plan" is not only unworkable, but undemocratic too.May's deal has been rejected by leavers because they don't see it as leaving. However, some are preferring it now to remaining, as an alternative.
I think we're heading for a second vote. The EU, Labour, Lib Dems, and majority Conservatives want it. May has promised numerous times it won't happen, which means it's guaranteed to happen. Probably next year after an extension. The EU would agree to an extension if there was a re-vote.@vidic blood & sand do you think we're going to revoke article 50 then?
It troubles me that the leave campaigns used blatant lies as propaganda and made promises that could never be fulfilled to earn a narrow victory bloated by a demographic that won’t have to live very long with the consequences of their poorly informed / outright misinformed decision.
If you listen to what Cameron says at 2:34, he explains that the referendum would be to stay in the EU or come out altogether.
It's very clear what the referendum was about, and the government is now overruling the democratic vote. Doesn't this trouble any of you?
Since you asked. Well firstly referenda are non-binding and Cameron along with his cabinet are no longer in govt so his words on this matter little. But still, from my POV, the decision taken by the public to trigger A50 can only be reversed by the public. Hence I'm for giving a confirmatory referendum with the options of: No Deal, May/Corbyn's Deal and Revocation as the options. Rather than government revoking on their own.
If you listen to what Cameron says at 2:34, he explains that the referendum would be to stay in the EU or come out altogether.
It's very clear what the referendum was about, and the government is now overruling the democratic vote. Doesn't this trouble any of you?
Leavers were not deceived and misinformed. The remainers were misinformed with project fear, which didn't happen.It troubles me that the leave campaigns used blatant lies as propaganda and made promises that could never be fulfilled to earn a narrow victory bloated by a demographic that won’t have to live very long with the consequences of their poorly informed / outright misinformed decision.
We’ve learnt the damage it would cause so literally the only non self harming decision left is to pull the plug on it. The blowjob from a Piranha analogy is most befitting. The saddest thing is that there’s actual pig headed nob heads out there would would be on TV shouting “ THATS WHAT WE VOTED FOR, YOU LOST WE WON NOW GERRONWIVIT IT AND GIVE ME MY PIRANAH BLOWJOB” if the scenario was real.
No. Trying to get a hopelessly divided Parliament, led by a woefully inept PM, to honour the impossible promises of a fraudulent Brexit campaign, was always going to result in this kind of acrimony and chaos.Politicians sometimes seem stupid, but they are not really stupid.
Is it possible that all political parties have agreed (long time ago!) that leaving the EU is not a good idea and it will not happen, and all the drama of the past two years is just theatrics?
if we do that I hope the brexiters put a plan in place this time so people know what they're actually voting forI think we're heading for a second vote. The EU, Labour, Lib Dems, and majority Conservatives want it. May has promised numerous times it won't happen, which means it's guaranteed to happen. Probably next year after an extension. The EU would agree to an extension if there was a re-vote.
Apparently not.Since you asked. Well firstly referenda are non-binding and Cameron along with his cabinet are no longer in govt so his words on this matter little. But still, from my POV, the decision taken by the public to trigger A50 can only be reversed by the public.
No, it should be "In" or "Out".Hence I'm for giving a confirmatory referendum with the options of: No Deal, May/Corbyn's Deal and Revocation as the options. Rather than government revoking on their own.
I'm not aware of any lies.I don't see how that would be a failure of democracy then. Especially when you take into account that most claims found in the Leave.EU manifesto have proven to be lies and the campaign were found to have cheated as well.
The plan was in place, but a remainer fecked it up. The focus changed to securing a deal, which has become more important than actually leaving.if we do that I hope the brexiters put a plan in place this time so people know what they're actually voting for
That doesn't sound like an undemocratic tragedyI think we're heading for a second vote. The EU, Labour, Lib Dems, and majority Conservatives want it. May has promised numerous times it won't happen, which means it's guaranteed to happen. Probably next year after an extension. The EU would agree to an extension if there was a re-vote.
what was the plan in your eyes? Leave without a deal?The plan was in place, but a remainer fecked it up. The focus changed to securing a deal, which has become more important than actually leaving.
That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiotsReminds me of this from (from 2010)...
You can't do anything about stupid people . You can do something about their children.That was quite good. Unsurprising but good. Doesn't paint a rosy picture for the unemployed British people. What exactly is the plan for the low skilled, under educated, possibly stupid people who vote for snake oil? Or to knowingly sabotage a club they've been pushed to the periphery of? Other than calling them idiots
A free trade deal was up to the EU. If they rejected it, then no deal.what was the plan in your eyes? Leave without a deal?
What? Are we back to talking about 'voluntary' euthanasia again? (I just dont know what to expect from this thread anymore)You can't do anything about stupid people . You can do something about their children.