Cool. How do you do this without violating the GFA in Ireland?1. Leave EU. Stop freedom of movement from the EU.
2. Redesign new, -universal- immigration policy making changes to the current non-EU immigration policy with the initial aim of reducing net migration to government target of c.100k. Bill is currently pending, presumably awaiting the outcome of Brexit, as already linked earlier.
3. If government do not keep promises on immigration, vote for a party that will.
...in fact, maybe vote for another party anyway
Your observations on this situation seem to be: Don’t bother to vote to leave the EU because nothing will likely be done about immigration by the government anyway.
Voting in a General Election is a leap of faith ultimately. If what you vote for doesn’t transpire, if the party you voted for doesn’t honour their manifesto pledges, you have the freedom to change that vote at the next General Election. Simples.
Unlike referendums?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
They are just so incredibly stupid.The current thing with Brexiters is trying to perform some kind of group protest, but they're all coming up with different stuff. There's a group on Facebook sharing it all and I'm seeing so many similaraties with the Flat Earth group, especially in terms of how stupid they come across.
We shouldn't call them idiots though because it ignores their real concerns about the EU that they've always had.
Your country is fecked.
Dunno. Ask Theresa May. Think she’s been having some talks about it.
Ok. I’ve answered enough of this forums questions. How about some of you start answering mine?
1. No UK referendums on any EU treaties passed etc since 1975. Why, when other countries did?
2. Why did Germany & Austria not allow EU8 countries access to their labour markets for the first seven years after EU membership? And how was this deemed acceptable practice within the EU?
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You haven't though - you refuse to explain how we can reduce EU immigration without violating the GFA. If you can propose no solution to this your argument is entirely moot.
I asked my questions further up the thread & didn’t get an answer.
Re: GFA. I’ll get back to you.
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Easiest technical solution to tick all boxes is a hard border, no?
Nobody in Ireland wants that?
So maintain the border as it is then if that suits you?
Anybody & everybody travelling out of NI to the UK Mainland to be checked as an EU case would be. Maybe a case for UK ID cards to be issued, possibly?
Clearly not an expert on the Irish situ, best I could come up with in 10 minutes. Sorry.
Suppose we could try a united Ireland? *puts tongue in cheek*
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DUP would bring down government first unfortunately. May said it was basically unthinkable for a PM to break up the union too (i expect she'd do it regardless if she wasn't relying on the DUP).
Its one of the few more practical solutions but breaking the unionists off from the UK is going to have similar problems to breaking republicans off from Ireland. Moving an inch away from the status quo in Northern Ireland is dangerous, always. Brexit isn't particularly compatible with maintaining a status quo.
You should have had referendums on the EU. Its a failure on the part of the British Government. As for your second question, things change. I dont have a better answerr than that, sorry.
How did you conclude that Brexit UK will lead to stronger environmental protection laws?
Quite sure there is data of other large rocks that have got too close to the sun so crap analogy.
Freedom of movement wouldn’t even touch the sides of the government immigration policy. Net non-EU migration since 2000 has been over 200,000 culminating to one of the highest its ever been 261,000 last year. The government claim to full control if this system and they cannot bring the numbers down. Attacking freedom of movement where net migration has in contrast from EU been on average under 100,000 since 2005 when the first EU enlargement happened and down to 57,000 last year, is just another idiocy that leavers spout.1. Leave EU. Stop freedom of movement from the EU.
2. Redesign new, -universal- immigration policy making changes to the current non-EU immigration policy with the initial aim of reducing net migration to government target of c.100k. Bill is currently pending, presumably awaiting the outcome of Brexit, as already linked earlier.
3. If government do not keep promises on immigration, vote for a party that will.
...in fact, maybe vote for another party anyway
Your observations on this situation seem to be: Don’t bother to vote to leave the EU because nothing will likely be done about immigration by the government anyway.
Voting in a General Election is a leap of faith ultimately. If what you vote for doesn’t transpire, if the party you voted for doesn’t honour their manifesto pledges, you have the freedom to change that vote at the next General Election. Simples.
Unlike referendums?
It does help to know your arse from your elbow when talking about these things.
It may be an unpopular opinion, but I strongly suspect that some leave advocates had African and Asian immigrants in mind when they voted. After all, we've had significant Polish communities in England since the war, and no-one was ever concerned about them.
This is an article about Bradford from August 2016 - Bradford is a very diverse city where a majority voted leave.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...t-behind-post-brexit-tensions-simmer-bradford
This is an article about Bradford from August 2016 - Bradford is a very diverse city where a majority voted leave.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...t-behind-post-brexit-tensions-simmer-bradford
So arrogant. Typical remainer attitude on here unfortunately.
It’s very easy to dress up longer term averages to back the argument.
Levels of EU immigration were higher than what you are averaging out in the latter years prior to the referendum weren’t they?
Regarding non-EU, let’s see what the new immigration policy brings after it’s unveiled, before judging yeah?
Like I said. Two routes need two doors, not one. Except it will be only one door, as post-EU, that’s all that is required.
I don't think that's an unpopular opinion with a lot of people at all, Penna. It's similar here in Ireland. Polish and EU migrants in general have been widely accepted and integrated into our societies. It helps that they're all hard workers and a lot of them are skilled in areas we have been lacking numbers. It's always been accepted that they're a good thing for the country and the economy in general.
However the attitude towards non-EU nationals, in particular those of African descent seems to be less positive overall, mainly from browsing the net and such, and especially towards refugees. That's largely due to the failure of the government to integrate them into society correctly and just bundle them all into the same area which has caused big rifts in those towns.
I think a decent number mistakenly believe that the EU sets our immigration policy as a whole. I have to say that the backlash against Eastern Europeans surprised me a little after the referendum. That said, I have heard similar complaints about Romanians to the one in the article from white and Asian people where I am 'building houses for the bloody Romanian's' 'they're scruffy' etc.
The immigration that we have seen in more recent years is much more large scale than the immigration than you talk about. Immigrants were much more likely to assimilate in years gone by, many Eastern European immigrants even adopted British names to fit in.
People feel safer and more secure in homogeneous groups so when immigration happens on a larger scale, immigrant communities form, creating a degree of separation. In the UK we have a working class that has been disenfranchised for centuries and now feel their own homogeneous identity being threatened by these communities forming where they live. Which is, in part, what helped create the conditions for Brexit and why we saw things like Polish shops being vandalised etc after the referendum.
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Except post-EU the UK will likely continue to bring EU migrants in anyway. They generate money for the economy and they fill jobs that British workers can't. They also offset the ~300k British people who emigrate to countries like Australia and Canada, as well as other EU countries. None of this is likely to change. These countries will still let British people in and the UK will still let migrants from all those countries in, guaranteed, because it's good for the economy and no government that wants to be in power will want to tank your economy.
You can see above that net migration is actually generally less than 200k a year already.
You are simply living in an absolute dreamland if you think that leaving the EU will help start off a process to get rid of those pesky immigrants that you so badly want to, because it won't. Regardless of what government you get after the UK leaves, and regardless of whether you think they'll cut migration, they more than likely will not, because they need it for a functioning economy and no government wants to rule over a tanking economy because it's a nightmare for them.
You talk about remainer's being smug yet you (and many other leavers) have trundled into this thread time and time again with your ideologies about a post EU UK and what it will entail, only for it always, always to be proven nonsensical with pure facts, and yet you trundle on and on without presenting any of your own facts to support said ideologies. It's no wonder people get frustrated with that.
It's quite simple really, you voted on the basis of something that will not happen. It probably was reasonable to believe that could happen back in 2016 when you voted to leave, so nothing wrong with that, and I certainly won't begrudge you voting to leave if that's your opnion (even though I massively disagree with the idea that immigration = bad and it needs to be curbed), but almost three years later when it's being shown that what you voted for is not going to happen, you should really accept the facts instead of repeating the same thing over and over.
You sure about 200k? Latterly, I think you are underestimating a tad.Except post-EU the UK will likely continue to bring EU migrants in anyway. They generate money for the economy and they fill jobs that British workers can't. They also offset the ~300k British people who emigrate to countries like Australia and Canada, as well as other EU countries. None of this is likely to change. These countries will still let British people in and the UK will still let migrants from all those countries in, guaranteed, because it's good for the economy and no government that wants to be in power will want to tank your economy.
You can see above that net migration is actually generally less than 200k a year already.
You are simply living in an absolute dreamland if you think that leaving the EU will help start off a process to get rid of those pesky immigrants that you so badly want to, because it won't. Regardless of what government you get after the UK leaves, and regardless of whether you think they'll cut migration, they more than likely will not, because they need it for a functioning economy and no government wants to rule over a tanking economy because it's a nightmare for them.
You talk about remainer's being smug yet you (and many other leavers) have trundled into this thread time and time again with your ideologies about a post EU UK and what it will entail, only for it always, always to be proven nonsensical with pure facts, and yet you trundle on and on without presenting any of your own facts to support said ideologies. It's no wonder people get frustrated with that.
It's quite simple really, you voted on the basis of something that will not happen. It probably was reasonable to believe that could happen back in 2016 when you voted to leave, so nothing wrong with that, and I certainly won't begrudge you voting to leave if that's your opnion (even though I massively disagree with the idea that immigration = bad and it needs to be curbed), but almost three years later when it's being shown that what you voted for is not going to happen, you should really accept the facts instead of repeating the same thing over and over.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....rnational-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/
My position is consistent.
I care more about the environment than I do about the economy ultimately.
So I’d rather deal with things like utilising the aging population than shovelling a new large town into the UK every year. Sorry if you don’t agree.
And, yet again I have to point this out it seems. BEFORE we have the new, post Brexit immigration policy, we cannot possibly judge what the new net migration figures will be.
Could you elaborate a little bit more on the environmental crisis that you are alluding to?
I see referendums as a serious, considered choice rather than a leap of faith. Looking at the data, I'd say its very unlikely what you hope to happen will happen. As immigration is one of your primary reasons for leaving, I'm surprised you pay so little attention to the essential facts.1. Leave EU. Stop freedom of movement from the EU.
2. Redesign new, -universal- immigration policy making changes to the current non-EU immigration policy with the initial aim of reducing net migration to government target of c.100k. Bill is currently pending, presumably awaiting the outcome of Brexit, as already linked earlier.
3. If government do not keep promises on immigration, vote for a party that will.
...in fact, maybe vote for another party anyway
Your observations on this situation seem to be: Don’t bother to vote to leave the EU because nothing will likely be done about immigration by the government anyway.
Voting in a General Election is a leap of faith ultimately. If what you vote for doesn’t transpire, if the party you voted for doesn’t honour their manifesto pledges, you have the freedom to change that vote at the next General Election. Simples.
Unlike referendums?
Unlike immigration, the GFA is something that leaving the EU will impact. We don't need to make any assumptions about it, we don't need to hope for any future government actions, we know that leaving the EU impacts it instantly. As someone who would be impacted significantly by this, it's quite frustrating to hear that people like you made this leap of faith in total ignorance of this issue, and many others it will cause.
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Ok, circa 250-300k, hardly a massive difference.
Let's say you're talking about the environment, again, you are not really solving anything here. These migrants don't appear from thin air, you know, they'll still cause CO2 emissions in their home countries. At least in a developed country like the UK they might be able to reduce them (if they want).
Also, infrastructure to reduce a country's emissions costs money, A LOT of money. If the UK economy tanks due to Brexit and lower migration, where does this money come from?
I also find it quite hilarious that you're concerned with the environment and therefore want to leave the EU, when it's the EU that are pushing countries like the UK to reduce carbon emissions, and if the UK are out of the EU, they can actually increase emissions if they want because they won't have a lot of the laws the EU have put in place so far.
I never said referendums were a leap of faith. Read again?
Ok me and all the remainers on the forum have a difference of opinion re: immigration.
You lot are confidently predicting immigration will not fall significantly and you are saying that BEFORE the government actually go ahead and change the UK immigration policy.
I’m saying, let’s wait & see before we judge.
Which is the more sensible position?
Sorry I didn’t pay due diligence to the NI situation. If everybody in the UK mainland said that that was at the forefront of their mind when they voted, I’d be very dubious. Doesn’t excuse it though, granted. However, I gave an answer of sorts, which is more than I’ve had to some of my questions, whilst batting off a pack of baying wolves over the last couple of days?
So on that note, I’m off & will leave it all right there. Thanks.
I’m off, so we’ll agree to disagree
Jaysus, you're as shite at leaving as the UK.
It's certainly what sparked some of the feeling against immigration. It's very diverse but very very segregated to the point of white schools and asian schools, it's a good example of failed immigration. Poor white trash with areas next to them where its 95% asain.
You can sort of understand them voting that way, it's the areas with little immigration that are bemusing but then the media almost make out that all communities are going to be flooded with grooming gangs. Whatever the rags report becomes reality
To actually pay attention to the fact they could have taken significant action already and chose not to, despite having the power? But now we’re supposed to expect them to act? Why exactly?
wait, letting this Tory government have complete power with no EU involvement is meant to result in better environmental policy? 
that's a good one.
that's a good one.Yeah I've never heard of environmental reasons used as an excuse for not wanting immigration in the country before. It's definitely a good one.wait, letting this Tory government have complete power with no EU involvement is meant to result in better environmental policy?
Absolute bollocks, but good.
It's always funny when brexiters come in confidently, say their opinion, get their argument completely shut down with clear facts and figures, then play victim of the bully intellectual remainers, then leave. It's as if they are completely incapable of changing their opinion even with the information put on a plate in front of them.
What they need to understand is we are not talking of a matter of opinion this is pure fact.
What they need to understand is we are not talking of a matter of opinion this is pure fact.
You admittied the Uk had full control of non-EU immigrants before
Since the referendum non-EU immigration has skyrocketed as already pointed out to you.
We remember the original immigration argument. Brexiters weren't against immigration as such, they just wanted a fairer system so that more people from elsewhere in the world could have the same opportunities as Europeans.
Looks like you have succeeded but now the argument has changed, oddly enough.
You've had over three years to think about it , not ten minutes, maybe you should have thought about it before you voted.
So, as you want to decide everybody's future, why not stop all British people emigrating , stop all EU citizens immigrating and you would be almost exactly where you are now and immigration will still be in excess of 200,000.
I keep hearing 'we are prepared for a no deal brexit' from eu leaders.
What preparation have eu countries done?
What preparation have eu countries done?
We have open borders to 26 other countries.
Because you have no facts, no historical data to draw upon. Thats a fact for you.
@Strachans Cigar
Can I just ask who you voted for at the last GE? I'm assuming it'll be the Green party given your concern for the environment but I thought I'd just check.
Can I just ask who you voted for at the last GE? I'm assuming it'll be the Green party given your concern for the environment but I thought I'd just check.
And thats a new thing?
I forgot to mention the deals the EU has.
No its not a new thing for the EU, but it is a new thing for the UK not having free movement of goods from anywhere.
Well there you go. Instead of facing the information that has been put to you in this very thread. Clear facts and historical data you still say there are no facts or historical data. Look I get it you would rather ignore all reason and facts but the truth is its not a matter of waiting and seeing or having an opinion we already know what is going to happen due to recent and historical data and facts.
Predictably, the plethora of replies.
Could answer each and everyone of them actually, but because there are so many of you remainers on here, not exactly fair 1 v 20 odd is it?
Very time consuming indeed and to be blunt, I simply ain’t got that time.
Nothing I’ve heard on here will be making me change my vote, I’ll put it that way. And ultimately, that’s what you remainers with some of your attitudes, need to think about.
Or, just carry on sucking each other off in a like-minded circle whilst nodding in agreement with each other all day. No matter to me. You were still the minority last time I checked. And that’s ultimately what counts.
Sorry if that’s a little arrogant, it comes with being on the receiving end
Could answer each and everyone of them actually, but because there are so many of you remainers on here, not exactly fair 1 v 20 odd is it?
Very time consuming indeed and to be blunt, I simply ain’t got that time.
Nothing I’ve heard on here will be making me change my vote, I’ll put it that way. And ultimately, that’s what you remainers with some of your attitudes, need to think about.
Or, just carry on sucking each other off in a like-minded circle whilst nodding in agreement with each other all day. No matter to me. You were still the minority last time I checked. And that’s ultimately what counts.
Sorry if that’s a little arrogant, it comes with being on the receiving end
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Why would it be our job to make you change your mind? If you want to feck the country you live in, you'll have to live with it too. The difference is that you'll also have to live with the knowledge that it was your own stupidity that caused the damage, whereas we can just point at other people to blame.
I think those worried about immigration would probably admit it props up our economy in many areas when they are presented with the facts. Sadly, that isn't the problem they have with immigration.
No, quite a few of the people asking you questions did not vote remain or anything else, they were trying to get a coherent argument from a Brexiter. Unfortunately as per all the other Brexiters they always tie themselves in knots with inconsistent answers.Predictably, the plethora of replies.
Could answer each and everyone of them actually, but because there are so many of you remainers on here, not exactly fair 1 v 20 odd is it?
Very time consuming indeed and to be blunt, I simply ain’t got that time.
Nothing I’ve heard on here will be making me change my vote, I’ll put it that way. And ultimately, that’s what you remainers with some of your attitudes, need to think about.
Or, just carry on sucking each other off in a like-minded circle whilst nodding in agreement with each other all day. No matter to me. You were still the minority last time I checked. And that’s ultimately what counts.
Sorry if that’s a little arrogant, it comes with being on the receiving end
One day, maybe one of the 17.4 million will be able to achieve the goal.
I feel sad that anyone still believes the Tory line of reducing immigration. May is one of the strongest voices on this and she's not touched it.
You can call it optimistic but it's just being gullible
You can call it optimistic but it's just being gullible
Wow. You habe historical data on the last country to leave the eu. Please share details.