Dear god. It’s true!
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
so what was the plan for the Irish border?
Wouldn't that be great.
Cue Arsene Wenger memes
How did you manage that quantum leap of a conclusion? You can't educate stupid adults . You can focus on properly educating their (and everyone else's) children. That's the only solution.
Apparently? Based on what?
What does "out" mean? In your words.
And if it means no-deal Brexit then:
a) Why not call it that?
b) What happens to the border in Ireland and..
c) Why not give the people the option to choose May's deal?
People might want compromise even if you don't.
I'm sure the sterling losing >10% of its value to the dollar, the Japanese carmakers pulling out, the deals EU had with other parties that were so easy to get rolled over yet we haven't... and all of that before we have actually exited..were not exactly part of the Leave promises. Closer in-line with project fear, I would argue. Although that was exaggerated as well.
EU law dictates that the EU cannot negotiate a future relationship with a country while that country is still part of the block. Hence the WA is about the UK leaving, after which we can negotiate the future relationship.
The option FTA or no deal, never existed in the real world.
Many leavers are and were both misinformed (blatantly lied to) and deceived. That many still cling to the bullshit is depressing but hardly unexpected.
And it is already an economic car crash. But the main economic damage will be long term as we become increasingly isolated and irrelevant.
"no u"
I can think of 350 million lies without even googling.
"Turkey will join the EU".
"German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal."
"Breaking point."
"German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal."
"Breaking point."
Was going to reply to him along similar lines, but decided any form of engaging is pointless. You either get it or not. It's extremely basic economics , however I suppose a certain level of aptitude is required to grasp these fundamental concepts.
Take your pick from the hard Brexiteer book of obfuscation:
- "nobody is going to put a border on Ireland, because no one wants one"
- "technological solutions"
- "they'll leave the EU to join us in an FTA"
So, which is it sir?
@vidic blood & sand you said there was a plan in place when you voted the first time. So what was it?
Slow roasted clusterfeck with a sectarian jus.
350 million per day saving so we can have all the gold that we can eat.
Leaving will be easy.
It’s more that people with the literacy skills of eight year olds don’t generally get promoted.
The first guy is the most English looking person I’ve ever seen.
The reality of their vote is that they believed the lies, propaganda and mythical £350m per week being pumped into the NHS, which, no doubt would filter down to them.
The problem with some of the posts in here is they are anachronistic and do not consider those old Brexiters were sold so many lies they bought into as to completely make the here and now reality redundant - at the time, what they were duped with was a promised land that would appeal to them the most of all demographics, if you think about it, almost to the point of it being a no-brainer to leave. How many of those, if they're even still alive, would now either abstain or vote against leaving with the information in front of them and clarity of how their actions would directly, and negatively, impact them?
A corrupted referendum that pilfered so many leave votes it otherwise wouldn't should be revoked and the whole thing either done over again or tossed out entirely.
Great posts @Penna you've echoed my sentiments exactly over the last few pages.
Thats a great video, that disregards the fact that those jobs were being done by british people......before they were done by immigrants.
I worked in a veg packing factory on the weekends in 1997 just after my son was born to get some extra cash in to cover the short fall from the wife being on maternity leave, I was grading onions for 10 hours a day saturday and sunday with 99% british lanour, before going back to my monday to friday job (killing chickens in a chicken processing plant which ironically is now all staffed by predominantly by immigrants) where i worked with 99% british labour.
Of course they were sold a pack of lies. The elderly are easily victimized by con men and scam artists, which is basically the entire Leave campaign, but if they're going to vote, they can't be absolved of blame. Much like American baby boomers, they've voted what for what they believe to be best for them despite all the conspicuous evidence to the contrary, consequences for future generations be damned. It's not a new phenomenon with the elderly or conservatives generally: dreaming of returning to a glorious time that never existed.
It was a historic mistake to put such a simple question to a referendum without proper context. It allowed hucksters like Farage, Rees-Mogg, and Boris to weave an elaborate web of lies, which unfortunately millions of people bought. If David Cameron weren't a colossal moron, the referendum would've been posed once the terms were understood. The corruption of the process by Leave, Banks, Russia, et al is enough to warrant revoking A50 and calling a new referendum on the terms of May's deal. Sadly, Brexiters know they would lose any subsequent vote on the issue.
Can I ask what you mean here? As in, there was no project fear in the first place, or said project fear hasn't occurred?
It hasn't occurred yet because you are still in the EU.
Of course lies and deceit are par for the course in securing votes, but beyond a certain extent, boosted by illegally funded propaganda, can you blame them for voting for their utopian ideal?
Isn't this the biggest set of lies the British public have been sold with regard to a public vote? As soon as the illegality of the campaign came to light it should have been voided, and if needs be, re-run. That it has just stood with nary a word said is scandalous.
Older folk who are susceptible have swayed the vote and taken it over the line. Their vote, in and of itself, is not an issue, but how it has been procured should have been front page news.
The bolded simply shouldn't be in their hands. It is not democratic process at all how things have been allowed to run on rotten foundation to this point in time beggars belief.
@Fortitude, I reckon in years to come the whole Brexit mass deception issue will be the subject of many university theses. Mind-boggling lies and hyperbole from the leave campaign, and they got away with it.
It's absolutely mind-boggling, even now - 'the will of the people' with the asterisk glaringly absent is leading the country into potential chaos and nothing is being raised about how that has come about.
It should be a lesson that is etched in the collective consciousness for decades, so I hope it isn't swept under the rug in future as it has been in the here and now. It would be fantastic if the deceit was surgically deconstructed and its full extent revealed via thesis.
I think you got a bit of push back for saying you would support the reintroduction of the death penalty? It was when the thread got sidetracked on euthanasia and corporal punishment. I'm not sure if folk were abusive to you but I can certainly see why there would be strong opinions against the death penalty being reintroduced in the UK.
This doesn't make sense. You have to leave before you can negotiate a free trade deal. You don't seem to want to leave.
I know the Uk likes to negotiate with itself but this is taking things a bit too far. You are still part of the EU, what are you going to do, sit on one side of the table as the UK and then go around the table and sit on the EU side?
Two other points, the bad deal is no deal and a FTA is not your biggest problem by any stretch of the imagination and solves very little. You'll start negotiating that as soon as you leave if you don't lie.
Absolute bollocks.
Anyone with a working cell knew leaving wouldn't be as straightforward or easy as suggested. They also knew what chaos and expense it would cost. The same knew how difficult Europe would make leaving for us.
Over the last 3 years since the vote all that has been accomplished is billions has been spent, the country has become more divided and the Tory government has been allowed to cripple the NHS, the Police force, pensions and benefits systems and give as little as possible to infrastructure. Meanwhile they have got away with this because all they have had to do is argue about Brexit. The country has been decimated while it's been distracted. Where if we had voted remain, then the government may have actually had to govern and the focus would have actually been on them doing their job.
I also suggest you speak to the fishermen who are now incandescent with rage after finding out they were conned over fishing rights. Mind you, most remainers knew they were being lied too, but their cause was jumped upon by leave who must have known full well they couldn't effect the fishing rights if we voted out.
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JRM says "don't trust the UK". Does anybody?
Barnier suggests EU might not grant long article 50 extension unless May proposing new approach
Barnier says an orderly withdrawal has been the EU’s objective, not least because of the need for talks in the second stage.
The UK will remain a friend, partner and ally, he says.
He says, ahead of tomorrow’s summit, they have examined the way forward.
He says the EU needs a timeline or roadmap from the UK.
A new element is the start of cross-party discussions in London.
He says at today’s meeting they all expressed their hopes in respect of these talks. They all want a positive result, he says, that might allow a positive majority to emerge for a deal.
If the UK wants to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, the only way to do so is on the basis of the withdrawal agreement.
He says the withdrawal agreement will not be reopened. That continues to be the case.
The political declaration (PD) can be improved, he says, if the UK wants.
He says the UK and the EU could add to the free trade agreement already proposed in the PD a customs union. This could be added rapidly, “within a few hours or days”, he says.
He says the EU is not willing to compromise on the ecosystem behind the single market.
Why is is stressing that the PD could be rewritten? Because that would provide meaning to an extension, he says.
He says he does not want to say more, because this is a matter for EU leaders at the summit tomorrow.
He says the duration of an extension has to be in line with the purpose behind it.
If the UK wants to stop no-deal, it can, by revoking article 50.
Barnier says an orderly withdrawal has been the EU’s objective, not least because of the need for talks in the second stage.
The UK will remain a friend, partner and ally, he says.
He says, ahead of tomorrow’s summit, they have examined the way forward.
He says the EU needs a timeline or roadmap from the UK.
A new element is the start of cross-party discussions in London.
He says at today’s meeting they all expressed their hopes in respect of these talks. They all want a positive result, he says, that might allow a positive majority to emerge for a deal.
If the UK wants to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, the only way to do so is on the basis of the withdrawal agreement.
He says the withdrawal agreement will not be reopened. That continues to be the case.
The political declaration (PD) can be improved, he says, if the UK wants.
He says the UK and the EU could add to the free trade agreement already proposed in the PD a customs union. This could be added rapidly, “within a few hours or days”, he says.
- Barnier says the EU could rewrite the political declaration “within hours or days” if the UK chose a customs union.
He says the EU is not willing to compromise on the ecosystem behind the single market.
Why is is stressing that the PD could be rewritten? Because that would provide meaning to an extension, he says.
He says he does not want to say more, because this is a matter for EU leaders at the summit tomorrow.
He says the duration of an extension has to be in line with the purpose behind it.
- Barnier suggests the EU might not grant a long article 50 extension unless May is proposing a new approach.
If the UK wants to stop no-deal, it can, by revoking article 50.
He's the biggest charlatan in this whole process. That takes some doing.
I think that some people still fail to understand how society work. The Withdrawal agreement is simply meant to fix some of the issues that will occur when the UK leaves, some people and companies will inevitably find themselves in trouble from a legal and practical standpoint and the withdrawal agreement is supposed to help fix that. The only reason the UK hasn't left yet is because they are aware of these issues and refuse to accept their consequences which is understandable.
A subsequent FTA or CU will always be an option and they will be in line with what both sides want from it, no one is going to force anything on the other but until these deals are sealed people and companies will still be living and working, and they will have to know which rules they are supposed to respect and where aka the WA.
Witty response as usual from the "I don't have time for elaborate answers but I do have time for 2000 posts in this thread" hypocrite.
Ah, The agonies of a local Labour MP in a leave constituency. But also a marginal constituency.
MP claims he is “not against” Brexit, but votes against it every single time because his primary concern is jobs.
His local Labour council want to build another 20k houses, 8k on green belt. Also lots more new warehouses on green belt for additional jobs needed due to expansion.
He seems to be against that, which is also my own position.
Talk about wanting it both ways.
MP claims he is “not against” Brexit, but votes against it every single time because his primary concern is jobs.
His local Labour council want to build another 20k houses, 8k on green belt. Also lots more new warehouses on green belt for additional jobs needed due to expansion.
He seems to be against that, which is also my own position.
Talk about wanting it both ways.
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I see the WA as a stepping stone to the next stage whereas I have the impression that large parts of the UK see it as the final deal and it's not good enough for them.
I think the most laughable thing is that in true hard Brexiteer fashion, he comes in, drops some (to put it mildly) bollocks statements and when he gets challenged on them he vanishes into thin air.
I mean, you have to laugh. Don't you?
He’s not telling us why he thinks it is undemocratic that the govt is not pulling off a no deal Brexit, when polls show only half of Brexiteers support that (so a quarter of the electorate, give or take). He’s not got any comeback for the fact that his position (FTA or no deal) contradicts the reality that an FTA cannot be negotiated while we’re in the EU. He still dodges the Irish border question altogether. He’s thinks Leave.EU and Farage didn’t lie but when challenged on the particulars he bails.
Then apparently we’re the bad guys for making this place hostile to different opinions. We should be more accommodating to opinions that contradict reality I guess.
The irony of this whole thing is that today, May is going to Brussels to beg Macron and Merkel not to kick us out .