It's a Woodward tactic isn't it? Come and join us and we'll be challenging for major honours this time next year.
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This Savic lad at Lazio has had a bad season (reportedly had his head turned in the summer) but if we were to sell Pogba and buy him, would we be alright?
Not sure what your definition of alright is, but, as with most names people are suggesting to replace him, we'd be worse off as there's no comparison between the two.
See my edit for that post.
My point is you can talk about your ambition, and show step of the plan. However to go specific about salary, trophies, names to add to the team is simply stupid. If Woodward indeed did the latter, he needs to step down ASAP
Van der Beek looks every bit a better target if Pogba is to move.
Well he'll be available at a knocked down price this summer and has been great largely for Lazio until this season as a club bid €75m in the summer but Lazio wanted €100m. He wanted to go and they refused but this summer they'd be lucky to get €50m for him.
Could he do a job for us if we're rebuilding the midfield in the absence of Pogba? With another couple coming in as well. I haven't seen enough of him to know what his strengths are.
Haven't watched him at all this season, but I did manage to catch some games last season. Wasn't overly impressed from what I saw, to be honest. Just not at the level we should be aspiring for, at least not yet.
Every player we buy is going to be a risk. Why not just play Chong or Gomes and see if they can develop.
We are so far behind city and Liverpool that the cheque book approach will still take years to turn us into the best.
Let's take a longer term view and make the core of the team home grown players who don't get their heads turned easily.
Show our talented youngsters some faith, then loyalty when they have an inevitable dip, and they will be more inclined to show us loyalty when real and Barca come calling
We are so far behind city and Liverpool that the cheque book approach will still take years to turn us into the best.
Let's take a longer term view and make the core of the team home grown players who don't get their heads turned easily.
Show our talented youngsters some faith, then loyalty when they have an inevitable dip, and they will be more inclined to show us loyalty when real and Barca come calling
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It's not the point though is it? Trust me I'm as frustrated as anyone with the way the club has fell from grace and is ran, but if you are the 'star' player you should always at least acknowledge the paying fans who have travelled regardless. Especially when the rest of your team mates did.
I wonder, though, if we should be focusing more on creating a midfield unit rather than just thinking 'who is the best player'
My issue with Pogba, other than his attitude in certain situations, is that having him in the team in his preferred 'free' CM role is I think it puts additional pressure on us defensively - this would be mitigated if you had two top level more defensively minded CMs behind but then your sole creative outlet is Pogba. I don't think I'd be too disheartened to see him go as long as we brought in the right kind of player, Liverpool are showing that it's not about signing the best CMs is just finding solid players who suit a system and I don't like the weird undercurrent around Pogba where a) the player thinks he's better than this level and b) he gives off the impression of wanting to move
It boils down to a disconnect between his performances and his attitude. He's had a real mixed bag this season and continues to go missing in all the big games - some of this must be down to us playing defensive counter attacking football but, if you watch those games, he's generally making a lot of individual errors as well like trying unsuccessfully to take people on in risky situations, poor passes and losing his man at set pieces. This doesn't make him a bad player but he's simply not as good as he thinks he is
Once again, it has nothing to do with him doing miracles. It has to do with him putting the effort in, doing the basics. I am not an idiot to blame Pogba for the 3-0 loss, that is completely on Young and De Gea. But, when things aren't going well he plays with so much immaturity, strolls about and tries to play like it is street football. I don't think he has a good overall game in several weeks, probably Crystal Palace was the last one. He has gone back to being ineffective and popping up with one or two moments.
I have a feeling that he does what he does partly because his team mates have let him down so often, but I don't think that is a reason at all to not try for them either. As an attacking midfielder your duty is to work in tandem with your forwards, even if they lose the ball over and over you still try to get it to them, even if they fail to find your runs over and over you still keep on making them. No need to try extremely low percentage plays out of frustration.
No I absolutely agree with you, I think he believe's he's bigger than the club at this stage, especially after winning a World Cup. I think we should sell in the summer, I don't believe having him around will benefit the team as a whole anymore.
Don't think that's the sole answer. Just look at the Juve team he played in. A defensive/B2B player with a creative CM that dictates play to support Pogba would achieve the control we need in midfield and I'd say that current lack of control is the main culprit when it comes to defensive pressure on the team. Currently, with Matic and Herrera, we have a player that can barely move , another that has to do the job of two players defensively and still nobody that can really create or dictate anything other than Pogba, so we're rarely dominating possession in central areas. I'm of the opinion that defensively, Pogba hasn't really been an issue this season. Last season I agree that there were problems, but I think, for the most part, he's been fine in terms of actually getting back.
The issue is, ability-wise he's so far ahead of the rest of the team that the bolded isn't really a surprise. I don't think he believes that he's above working for the team, but I feel that during games, he can get into the mindset that the team (mainly the attack) isn't working for him (making runs, providing support or doing anything really), which leads to frustration and then onto weird decisions. To be honest, I have a lot of time for his poor passes as he's a better passer than anyone else in the team and is at least trying to make something happen most of the time. He's already shown what he can do in full flow, so I'd like to see what he can do when he's around players actually suited to their actual roles and performing at respectable levels. Put someone like Eriksen in his position and I'm not convinced at all that there'd be much difference.
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We just got dicked 4-0 on aggregate home and away by Barca. I am not sure what this statement is meant to herald. Not exactly a glowing endorsement of his abilities, considering the so called weak links gave performances to be proud of and positively aided the platform for a midfielder of his ability to shine.
I think if we do not cash in on him soon, we will basically lose money.
Average, overhyped and overrated footballer. His best performance happened during world cup when he played deeper and actually bother to defend, He can't perform in tight space and very easy to nullify when he played more advance. Jose Mourinho knows about him better than himself.
The most jerkill and Hyde thread on here.
Watching the City game last night just made me so depressed about Pogba.
From the start of the second half, you could see that City were desperate for a goal and De Bruyne responded by going into beast mode. Kicked it up a notch and was basically unplayable. Created the goal for Aguero and ran the Spurs defence ragged. He was running past people like they weren't there and making the best possible use of every situation he found himself in. Feck all to do with what his team mates were doing, or the manager he's under. Just a creative attacking force at the top of his game as an individual. The same stuff we see from Hazard almost every week too.
How often have we seen that from Pogba in his 87 games for United? And who was the opposition on those rare occasions he did bend a game to his will?
The answer to those two questions speaks volumes.
From the start of the second half, you could see that City were desperate for a goal and De Bruyne responded by going into beast mode. Kicked it up a notch and was basically unplayable. Created the goal for Aguero and ran the Spurs defence ragged. He was running past people like they weren't there and making the best possible use of every situation he found himself in. Feck all to do with what his team mates were doing, or the manager he's under. Just a creative attacking force at the top of his game as an individual. The same stuff we see from Hazard almost every week too.
How often have we seen that from Pogba in his 87 games for United? And who was the opposition on those rare occasions he did bend a game to his will?
The answer to those two questions speaks volumes.
I agree with much, the bolded part is just not true though. The off the ball movement from City is fabolous. Pep is mostly responsible for that. For all of KdB's creativity, he wouldn't be able to live it with a team like us, where nobody has a clue what to do without the ball.
No chance. KdB got 30 goals and assists playing for fecking Wolfsburg feeding Das Bost. His delivery with his right foot is unparalleled, he could be feeding a lamp post and still assist.
Wolfsburg back than was a pretty decent team, especially for the Bundesliga. I don't want to take anything away from him though. He's brilliant. But he also needs a functioning team around him and a capable manager, both things that I doubt we have.
Talking specifically about last night, though, what he was doing was unaffected by his team mates. He was winning the ball back, dribbling past Spurs players like they weren't there, playing brilliant passes into the box, creating opportunities out of nothing etc etc Obviously, over the course of a season his stats will look miles better surrounded by City players than by United players but would you seriously argue that United's stats wouldn't look better if we had KdB playing instead of Pogba?
Anyway, my point really isn't about the relative quality of the two players. It's about the way he reacted in a huge game, under immense pressure, against top opposition, by taking his personal performance up a notch. When did you last see that from Poba?
I don't think there's any point thinking of his time at Juve though because it's a league where you have much more time on the ball & he was playing in a dominant team alongside a bunch of genuinely top level players. You can analyse their midfield and why it worked but it's really the entire team that creates the balance. When we've played 'lesser' teams and Pogba has had time and space he's been incredible since Ole came in but against the better teams, who aren't afraid to press him and who generally dominate possession against us, his role almost becomes redundant and he ends up just covering a load of ground and getting frustrated as we set up camp around our box and then play long balls out of trouble.
I agree on the assessment of Matic & Herrera though, we must have most immobile CMs of any PL team and maybe if you had a bit more energy around Pogba in terms of runners, wide players who stay wide and other CMs who can be more integral to building attacks you'd see him start to perform against top teams.
I would Love Pogba to stay, get his act together, get focused and start performing again. But if he keeps flirting with Real Madrid (while clearly not dismissing it), all while playing pretty shit, Id just let him go. Im not sure he's a player you can really trust to build a team around anymore. Just goes missing too often.
If he does end up going to Real, he's in for a big shock when he see's how Madrid fans treat him when he goes awol for 5/6 games in a row. They're ruthless out there
If he does end up going to Real, he's in for a big shock when he see's how Madrid fans treat him when he goes awol for 5/6 games in a row. They're ruthless out there
That's ridiculous. Fans would be much less frustrated if they realize that's not how players work.
While Pogba has his mistakes, hed be "twice" the player in that city squad. De Bruyne is driving a Ferrari while Pogba is driving some Jaguar .
Old Trafford booed him after Mourinho called him a virus and he's the scapegoat everytime we lose. He doesn't have a song too, while a lot of average players had one... it's pretty clear that he isn't liked or protected here. In fact, I doubt Pogba will find another club/country that treated him as badly as us.
The guy is an idol in France, in Italy despite C.Ronaldo, since 3 years they talk every day about him in the papers and the fans want him back badly...but here he's a dabbing cnut, an average player and the reason of our downfall.
But yeah let's talk about the way Madrid treat their players...Pogba should think twice about it huh, he's so liked and respected here...
if anything, with his time here, mentally he's ready for Madrid.
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1) you can only win balls back if you are allowed to press or go deeper/higher and have positional freedom. That comes with 10 other players around you playing well
2) You dribble when you're not afraid to lose possession as is a risk with dribbling. When you have 30 percent possession like United you dont dribble as much
3) you cant play passes with our movement. Besides who do you play it to? They're gonna squander it at the first touch
I find this ridiculous to be honest, as if top players need the stars to align to play at a high level. Wolfsburg had plenty of holes in their team and their manager was Dieter Hecking (not sure but that is what I remember) but he still got Bundesliga player of the year. And to call Mourinho an uncapable manager in this context is laughable, he is less capable that Dieter Hecking??? He's a shadow of himself, but he's not an excuse for a player to not play well.
KDB is a real super star that rises to the occasion and drives his team forward. Pogba is just a luxury lazy player who plays well only when the other players are having the game of their life then sinks lower with them when they are not performing.
Our fans dont have a tap on Real fans when it comes to being fickle!Old Trafford booed him after Mourinho called him a virus and he's the scapegoat everytime we lose.
With his time here, mentally he's ready for Madrid
In fact, I doubt Pogba will find another club/country that treated him as badly as us.
The guy is a idol in France, in Italy despite C.Ronaldo, since 3 years they talk every day about him in the papers and the fans want him badly...but here he's a dabbing cnut, an average player and the reason of our downfall. But yeah let's talk about Madrid and the way they treat their players...
Are you for real?!? what a pile of nonsense. Hes been quite poor now for about 8/9 games and his name still gets one of the loudest cheers being read out before each game. He does the same at Real, and after 1/2 games they will be on his back massively.. no matter how many big goals or assists he gives them. Our fans get frustrated with him at times when hes doing the likes of step overs in the centre circle when were are chasing a goal or generally looking disinterested, but to say he gets treated like dirt here is a stupid statement.Old Trafford booed him after Mourinho called him a virus and he's the scapegoat everytime we lose.
With his time here, mentally he's ready for Madrid
In fact, I doubt Pogba will find another club/country that treated him as badly as us.
The guy is an idol in France, in Italy despite C.Ronaldo, since 3 years they talk every day about him in the papers and the fans want him badly...but here he's a dabbing cnut, an average player and the reason of our downfall. But yeah let's talk about Madrid and the way they treat their players...
Still better than our other players but he doesn't have a song...3 years and no song, it speaks volume.
Honestly we should stop to talk about the way the Madrid's fans would treat him.
It would be a rude awakening for players loved and overrated by the fans base like Herrera, De Gea or Rashford but not for Pogba.
Madrid fans booed fecking Cristiano Ronaldo when he was winning them CLs because he had a 1 or 2 poor games. What are you talking about?
Pogba doesn't get as much stick as he deserves from our crowd. They booed him, what, once and you keep talking about it? He will realize this with Madrid fans. Just wait and see.
Madrid fans attacked Bale's car because they weren't happy with his performances. You've got to be clueless to put blame on the fans. United fans are some of the most loyal of all the big clubs. Not a surprise that his groupies are coming out with nonsense like that.It's weird to see our fans talking about the way Madrid's fans will treat him..even if they boo him, what's the matter ? Like you said, Ronaldo was booed...even Zidane ! So if Pogba is booed, it wouldn't be a surprise.
The surprise was Old Trafford booing Pogba and the fact that the fans never made a song for him. I rarely saw another player treated like that here.
So again, we shouldn't talk about the way Madrid will treat Pogba as if he was liked andprotected here. He isn't De Gea, Herrera, Rashford etc. He was never a fan favorite. If anything, his time here will help him to cope with the spanish fans.
Nice save by @Jib, realise that you're talking nonsense and then change the angle. At first he was ok to leave United because of fans booing and not making a song, now thats actually a good thing because it will prepare him for Madrid.
so loyal not with everyone...they booed him because Mourinho called him a virus
the english isn't my first langage, i can make some mistakes but you are lying here.
You seem quite annoyed he doesn't have a song.. I dont remember fan favs like Beckham, Yorke, Rio or schmeichel having songs either. Pogba is mentioned in the 'Oles at the wheel' one we sing at the minute.
John OShea isnt a club legend (He was liability alot of the time) but we have a novelty one for him. Songs just work for some players and dont work for others.
There's no comparison between us and Madrid fans. Ours booed one player who was underperforming and severely downing the tools for his team, and did nothing to the club so far, and did it once even though he deserved it even more actually. Madrid fans boo their fecking legends who brought them loads of major trophies and just because of 1 or 2 poor performance.
Stop shitting on our fans mate.
Ah yes, it was big bad Mourinho. I wonder why Fellaini got booed as well even though he is a cherished player by Mourinhoso loyal not with everyone...they booed him because Mourinho called him a virus
Pogba got booed because he was taking the piss, performances like Spurs, West Brom, Southampton. Mourinho called him a virus THIS season, he was already booed before that.
Please don't overrate his performance last night,I watched the match live and I was perticularly focussed on de bruyne.
He played fantastic through balls and created chances but I also noticed that he's not so different from Pogba in style of play. two of the assist he made he received the ball at the oppositions half,he doesn't really dictate play,he plays at the right hand side of the attack like pogba plays at the left hand side of the attack and you also said he was winning balls well he wasn't,
I can't remember one ball he won and tottenham midfiielder sissiko and wayanma were dominating the midfiield.however he was fantastic at attacking,created really good chances which were well taking by aguero and sterling who has fantastic movement.
De bruyne was fantastic but to come and say he will do anything better than what pogba did with the likes of rashford and lingard is false,i mean,it's not like he dribbled past a bunch of tottenham players and placed the ball at the top corner.
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