Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Ekkie Thump]

I do like to credit people here with having at least average intelligence, so I will give you a few minutes to mull things over and read things again to give you the opportunity to prove my faith in the members here is not misplaced.

You can't even accurately identify an exclamation mark mate.

 

[Ducklegs]

You can't even accurately identify an exclamation mark mate.

Thats observation fella, however in my defence, writing something in capital letters in that fashion is an “exclamation” as its used there to highlight a surprising or amazing fact.

Swings and roundabouts eh, you win some you lose some.

Want to address the actual point being discussed or do you want to go again?

 

[Sweet Square]

Want to address the actual point being discussed or do you want to go again?

Genuine questions here, was the Windrush scandal for you

1)Not a scandal ?

2)The British government simply deporting ''non British'' citizens ?

3)Why do you think it was a scandal and caused such national outrage ?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Thats observation fella, however in my defence, writing something in capital letters in that fashion is an “exclamation” as its used there to highlight a surprising or amazing fact.

Swings and roundabouts eh, you win some you lose some.

Want to address the actual point being discussed or do you want to go again?

Sure. I think that the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg is no more or less British than the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. "God save the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg" I exclaim.

In all seriousness the dude's mum was the granddaughter of Queen Victoria or something, he married our present queen, was in our navy from age 18 and has since seamlessly melded himself into the role and opinions of a peculiarly British type of upper class twit. I've even seen him in a bowler hat!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

it's pretty obvious the results weren't "gerr on with it" and the messaging was agreed before the results even came in but it's going to be fun seeing remainers try to explain the Brexit Party wiping the floor with everyone in a few weeks

I have a feeling they blame it on a certain allotment owning socialist.

I thought you two were remainers or has Uncle Jeremy convinced you otherise?

 

[Silva]

remain is better but the only people in any position of power who advocate for it want to continue the same economic policies that led to the leave vote, if they somehow manage to both cancel brexit and continue the same economic policies then the movement following Brexit will be even worse

and I refuse to cheerlead for these charlatans

see also: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-remainer-leave-voters-labour-northern-people

 

[Paul the Wolf]

remain is better but the only people in any position of power who advocate for it want to continue the same economic policies that led to the leave vote, if they somehow manage to both cancel brexit and continue the same economic policies then the movement following Brexit will be even worse

and I refuse to cheerlead for these charlatans

see also: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-remainer-leave-voters-labour-northern-people

I get what you're saying but fail to see how the UK leaving the EU will help. The poor are going to suffer the most. You need a major change in Westminster.

 

[Sweet Square]

I thought you two were remainers or has Uncle Jeremy convinced you otherise?

Agree with everything @Silva said. Remain have got my vote but thats it.

 

[Adisa]

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[Sweet Square]

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I can't see anything happen with these talks. May can't give into any of Labour demands because it will destroy the tory party.

 

[Stanley Road]

People want...

 

[Striker10]

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What deal could that bag possibly make with labour since her deal was never brexit?

 

[Penna]

Do we think people are learning that Politicians of all colours are self serving wankers yet?

And the worst type of politicians are the ones that claim to be of the people for the people, but are really just self serving wankers like all the rest of them?

I think there's a certain type of person who decides that they want to make a career out of politics. I'm not saying that they don't initially have good intentions one way or another, but at some point it seems to get subsumed by the desire for personal power/glory/recognition - at least for a significant proportion of them. Maybe that's inevitable as the top positions become within reach for the ones who make it that far.

The likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg (and many others, some not Tories) are incredibly privileged. I simply don't believe their main motivation is to improve things for working-class Joe, because they've never lived in his world or even anywhere near it. They've never been in middle-class Joe's world either, with a mortgage, a job paying £35,000 a year, two kids, a semi-detached house, a modest car and two weeks a year in the Canaries.

I have more respect for those who spend years toiling away as a local councillor somewhere, for not much reward.

 

[Drifter]

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Pretty desperate on her part.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nship-northern-ireland--good-friday-agreement

This is an interesting article and an aspect of Brexit's interaction with the Good Friday agreement that I hadn't seen discussed before. How on Earth does this work then?

 

[sun_tzu]

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The state of the comments / replies

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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Translation: Jeremy, Just Gerronwivit

 

[Maticmaker]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nship-northern-ireland--good-friday-agreement

This is an interesting article and an aspect of Brexit's interaction with the Good Friday agreement that I hadn't seen discussed before. How on Earth does this work then?

Noakes is probably right..domestic legislation holds sway, "Charity begins at home "etc. Its what can complicate so called 'dual nationality', i.e. for travel, employment and other matters 'dual nationality' works; however where there is a danger of 'rights' granted by either nationality becoming conflicted with the other, then one must have primacy over the other! Usually (I guess) the individual can choose, unless of course its a question of whether someone becomes 'stateless' as a result

 

[Sassy Colin]

So, we are definitely having the European elections.

 

[sun_tzu]

So, we are definitely having the European elections.

Seems so... I think may will struggle to survive if the conservative losses are as big as forecast... Will be interesting to see how labour perform with brexit and change in the mix

 

[Devil_forever]

Seems so... I think may will struggle to survive if the conservative losses are as big as forecast... Will be interesting to see how labour perform with brexit and change in the mix

Brexit Party are going to clean up. Both parties are going to regret their refusal to pass a deal.

 

[Adisa]

Has the messianic complex to rival Tony Blair.

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[Sweet Square]

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[saivet]

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I wouldn't be shocked in Labour and the Tories perform worse than this

I voted for Labour in the local elections but will switch to Lib Dem for the EU elections I think to 'show' my thoughts on Brexit.

 

[711]

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I admit to some surprise by this. Only 20% for Remain parties doesn't seem right.

 

[Sweet Square]

I wouldn't be shocked in Labour and the Tories perform worse than this

I voted for Labour in the local elections but will switch to Lib Dem for the EU elections I think to 'show' my thoughts on Brexit.

Yeah I though it was worth posting but mainly because it took me by surprise. I expect the Brexit party to do far better in the end.

I admit to some surprise by this. Only 20% for Remain parties doesn't seem right.

I think it depends on how people see the Labour Party. It wouldn't surprise if people see Labour as a remain party.

There was a poll not too long ago showing that more of the public see Labour as a party of Remain than CHUK.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Wonder if turnout will be above 30%.

 

[711]

I think it depends on how people see the Labour Party. It wouldn't surprise if people see Labour as a remain party.

There was a poll not too long ago showing that more of the public see Labour as a party of Remain than CHUK.

Well considering Labour are negotiating Brexit terms with the Tories even as we speak then they must be a bit bleeding dim then. Although, sadly, you're probably right.

 

[Sweet Square]

Well considering Labour are negotiating Brexit terms with the Tories even as we speak then they must be a bit bleeding dim then. Although, sadly, you're probably right.

CHUK marketing has been shite so there's that. But I think its mostly down to Remain & Leave being far more about culture politics than any actual policy position, Remain is seen as being for open, Anti Racism, social liberal/left politics which fits with the Labour Party, even with Corbyn anti EU views. The fact CHUK has some tories already in their party kills the idea they are liberal/left political party(The reality is CHUK are even further to the right than New Labour was).


And then as you people simply not paying any to politics, whatsoever. I always go back to the example of the ISIS girl who wanted to come back to the UK. While it was course covered by the media and politicians, they soon moved back on to Brexit but the ISIS girl story was still doing huge number of clicks with the British public.

 

[Adebesi]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but what happens to all the MEPs the UK elects if/when we crash out, quite possibly within a few months of the elections? Does the European Parliament then just have less MEPs sitting in it? Or will they be redistributed somehow? Has anyone even worked this out yet, or will they have to make it up as they go along?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but what happens to all the MEPs the UK elects if/when we crash out, quite possibly within a few months of the elections? Does the European Parliament then just have less MEPs sitting in it? Or will they be redistributed somehow? Has anyone even worked this out yet, or will they have to make it up as they go along?

The original plan, before the UK decided to linger, was to share some of the UK's seats among the remaining members but overall there would be fewer MEPs. What happens now I don't know but there is a chance the UK MEP's never take their seats in the new parliament in July if they agree a deal beforehand or they probably crash out in October with no deal before the serious business of the new EU parliament takes place and the new EU commission starts in November.

 

[Adebesi]

The original plan, before the UK decided to linger, was to share some of the UK's seats among the remaining members but overall there would be fewer MEPs. What happens now I don't know but there is a chance the UK MEP's never take their seats in the new parliament in July if they agree a deal beforehand or they probably crash out in October with no deal before the serious business of the new EU parliament takes place and the new EU commission starts in November.

Whether they take their seats or not, just them being elected is hugely disruptive, as it prevents the seats being redistributed among the remaining states. Obv worse if they do take their seats and then leave, or have the opportunity to be obstructionist, in the case of UKIP or Brexit Party MEPs.

 

[sun_tzu]

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that brexit vote is very different from other projections - curious as to why (eg is it weighted for voting intention as I expect a low turnout but the more passionate brexit and more passionate remain parties turn out to be proportionally higher)

 

[711]

Andrew McNeil somewhat exasperated with Labour today as he pointed out this is the first time he has ever known a party produce a manifesto and then refuse to provide anyone to discuss it.

If I'm reading it right Labour policy is now to achieve Brexit on their terms, and if they are unable to do so then, and only then, will they consider the 'option' of a referendum on any other terms. They are a Brexit party and their preferred choice is clearly not to have any second vote on the issue.

I've said before that I blame Brexit on the people who voted Conservative or Labour in the last general election and received dog's abuse for saying so, so I'll say again, if you vote Conservative or Labour in the Euro election now you will be voting for Brexit. Two weeks to decide.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Whether they take their seats or not, just them being elected is hugely disruptive, as it prevents the seats being redistributed among the remaining states. Obv worse if they do take their seats and then leave, or have the opportunity to be obstructionist, in the case of UKIP or Brexit Party MEPs.

Believe EU have selected October 31 because by then they will know for sure whether the UK could ever hope to ratify the withdrawal agreement, which seems unlikely, and the serious EU business will not take place until the UK have left.


Regarding seats:

Saw this
UK participation in the EP elections means that the envisaged reallocation of UK MEPs may be deferred. EU legislation reallocates 27 of the UK’s MEPs to 14 other Member States. This reallocation will still take place when the UK leaves the EU, meaning that MEPs for these reallocated seats will be ‘elected’ but will remain in limbo – unable to take up their seats until the UK and its MEPs leave.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Andrew McNeil somewhat exasperated with Labour today as he pointed out this is the first time he has ever known a party produce a manifesto and then refuse to provide anyone to discuss it.

If I'm reading it right Labour policy is now to achieve Brexit on their terms, and if they are unable to do so then, and only then, will they consider the 'option' of a referendum on any other terms. They are a Brexit party and their preferred choice is clearly not to have any second vote on the issue.

I've said before that I blame Brexit on the people who voted Conservative or Labour in the last general election and received dog's abuse for saying so, so I'll say again, if you vote Conservative or Labour in the Euro election now you will be voting for Brexit. Two weeks to decide.

I reluctantly voted labour at the last election as I thought then and still think now it was that or a huge conservative majority. If that had happened we would be out of the EU by now. So I think you are wrong in that analysis. I won't vote Labour in the EU election though unless they make it clear there will be a second referendum.

 

[711]

I reluctantly voted labour at the last election as I thought then and still think now it was that or a huge conservative majority. If that had happened we would be out of the EU by now. So I think you are wrong in that analysis. I won't vote Labour in the EU election though unless they make it clear there will be a second referendum.

That makes sense I admit. I'm not sure how many of those who voted Labour at the time worked that out as well as you, but I am sure they will all say they did now!

Vote Liberal or Green for me.

 

[Ubik]

In terms of who you should vote for depending on your Brexit position -

Brexit Party/UKIP - hard leave
Tory - leave with bad deal at any cost
Labour - leave just for the sake of it
Lib Dems - boring remain
Greens - lefty remain
Change - I don't understand what's going on

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In terms of who you should vote for depending on your Brexit position -

Brexit Party/UKIP - hard leave
Tory - leave with bad deal at any cost
Labour - leave just for the sake of it
Lib Dems - boring remain
Greens - lefty remain
Change - I don't understand what's going on

Vote in what? The EU elections?

 

[Mb194dc]

In terms of who you should vote for depending on your Brexit position -

Brexit Party/UKIP - hard leave
Tory - leave with bad deal at any cost
Labour - leave just for the sake of it
Lib Dems - boring remain
Greens - lefty remain
Change - I don't understand what's going on

Agree with this.

The issue we have with "Brexit" now is mainly about no one wanting to admit the truth.

Country voted in 2016 to leave, essentially sold on getting the economic benefits of the EU without paying contributions or having political interference or costs.

May Tory government never tried to implement that. Instead cooking up what amounts to an inferior version of "remaining".

To actually acheive "Brexit" along the lines of the 2016 vote would be very difficult. Mainly because it would undermine the entire EU. Other countries would leave as well if possible to just have an FTA and little other integration or cost. People running the EU would never agree such a deal because of that. Even if we try leave WTO we're looking at a protracted economic war of attrition.

Best solution now is to revoke article 50, and debate the above at a general.