Yep.Farage won that interview.
He did, I've not seen Marr look that flustered before, it was like he knew his script wasn't working but didn't know how to get out of it.Farage won that interview.
Farage himself is predictable though given thats all he shouts about if someone asks him a question he isn't willing to answer. I've seen him do it several times now.He did, I've not seen Marr look that flustered before, it was like he knew his script wasn't working but didn't know how to get out of it.
You would think so but Marr was way off the mark, he just came across as having a personal attack on past history rather than addressing the key issue of the moment, Brexit. It played into Farage's hands for me. I'm not suggesting Farage is right by the way, just that he would have been satisfied with the way it went.Farage himself is predictable though given thats all he shouts about if someone asks him a question he isn't willing to answer. I've seen him do it several times now.
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He has an answer for that - I don't want an irish hard border, so why are the EU forcing one?I would agree Farage won that. Really pathetic interview from the clips there.
Even the main crux of the interview is not worth exploring. Farage is about leaving the EU with or without a deal and from his view the Tories and Labour have been stuffing up the talks from day1. Also the free trade deal is there and Canada ++. Was he asked about the big problem of a Irish hard border?
Also this, for Westminster voting intention. Pretty incredible numbers.Sitting on the fence starting to fail Labour. Losing on both sides.
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I think so, and more critically it’s their only available play left. If they continue to prevaricate then they are totally fecked, and if Corbyn can’t see that from the polling numbers then Labour are in serious trouble.Also this, for Westminster voting intention. Pretty incredible numbers.
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Both parties looking in big trouble, but I think the Tories have the simpler route out of this mess. Ditch May, get Brexit out the door, they're on the way to recovery. As far Labour, it's a much trickier position to be in. Its pretty clear that they're losing support from both Remain and Leave voters, but even if they were to pivot to all out Remain, would they have enough credit in the bank left to stop the Remain vote from continuing to leave?
Since Brexit will (presumably) happen eventually, the key for Labour will be to try and avoid the permanant blame of Remain voters. If it becomes set in stone that Labour "let us down" on Brexit, that kind of thing is hard to overcome.I think so, and more critically it’s their only available play left. If they continue to prevaricate then they are totally fecked, and if Corbyn can’t see that from the polling numbers then Labour are in serious trouble.
I'm not sure about that. Not all the Con voters are hardcore leave, and those that are are probably the ones who switched to Brexit party in those polls.I think the party is fecked either way. Those numbers still show that roughly 50% still want brexit and don't care how they get it.
Exactly. And they're haemorrhaging support already because of that refusal to take a firm position. Long term (if Brexit happens) the Leave voters ultimately won't care what Labour's position was, because they'll have gotten what they wanted anyway. It's not like people in the north are going to turn into cast iron Tories over that. As you say, it's the Remainers who will hold the grudge for a very long time.Since Brexit will (presumably) happen eventually, the key for Labour will be to try and avoid the permanant blame of Remain voters. If it becomes set in stone that Labour "let us down" on Brexit, that kind of thing is hard to overcome.
Getting Brexit out the door means the uk economy taking a massive hit and a border in the north of Ireland. Anything less and it Tory members and leave voters will feel "betrayed".Both parties looking in big trouble, but I think the Tories have the simpler route out of this mess. Ditch May, get Brexit out the door, they're on the way to recovery.
The elephant in the room is that Labour supporters aren't asking why their party is sitting on the fence. Is it just about having to placate their northern working class brexit support or is the problem more that Corbyn and McDonnell are actually Brexiters, but more problematically Brexiters who aren't prepared to admit it and argue their case with the rest of the party to reach an agreed position?Since Brexit will (presumably) happen eventually, the key for Labour will be to try and avoid the permanant blame of Remain voters. If it becomes set in stone that Labour "let us down" on Brexit, that kind of thing is hard to overcome.
Corbyn and others in the NEC have, in my opinion, underestimated the impact of pissing off remain voters. Probably as much as the tories have, having spent the last three years trying to appease their right wing. The difference is that it is more important for the Tories not to piss off the leavers than it is Labour, whose problem is the opposite. There is a real danger for Labour of permanently losing a sizable chunk of remainers, if they haven't already.Exactly. And they're haemorrhaging support already because of that refusal to take a firm position. Long term (if Brexit happens) the Leave voters ultimately won't care what Labour's position was, because they'll have gotten what they wanted anyway. It's not like people in the north are going to turn into cast iron Tories over that. As you say, it's the Remainers who will hold the grudge for a very long time.
And to be honest, if we don't leave then yes Leavers will be the ones holding the grudge, but they're still the sizable minority in the Labour party. If you absolutely have to have a group pissed at you, logic would suggest the smaller group would be the wiser choice.
People are still as stupid now as then, big surprise. Go no deal, make them happy.depressing that after all the Brexit fiasco over the last few years, people still seem to want it. utterly depressing.
The problem is that an honest debate would make something clear fairly quick, that it's only Corbyn and his office that really want Brexit. A majority of MPs, members, Lords, Unions and voters all want a strong Remain position. If Corbyn were pro-EU, Labour would be a pro-EU party, simple as that. But since criticism of Corbyn results in a tide of criticism from his supporters in the party, no-one is prepared to have that conversation.The elephant in the room is that Labour supporters aren't asking why their party is sitting on the fence. Is it just about having to placate their northern working class brexit support or is the problem more that Corbyn and McDonnell are actually Brexiters, but more problematically Brexiters who aren't prepared to admit it and argue their case with the rest of the party to reach an agreed position?
Labour needs to have an open and honest debate within itself as to what they want, and then hopefully whoever loses that debate, Remain or Leave, will at least accept they are the minority within the party and stay with it. That;s not going to happen with the current leaders, I feel.
I made this point in an earlier post either in here or the Corbyn-thread. Labour Remainers are largely concentrated in cities where Labour MPs have unassailable super-majorities, whereas Labour Leavers are more evenly distributed across a multitude of less secure seats in the North and Midlands. I can't be bothered to dredge it up but I found a list of the top 20 or 30 safe seats from the 2017 election and the vast majority were Labour seats in big cities which voted Remain. The problem for Labour since the referendum is that a majority of their voters are Remainers, but a majority of the seats they hold voted Leave. Sitting on the fence did the trick in 2017 when Brexit day was 2 years off, but it's become increasingly untenable as we've approached and passed the original leaving date.Isn't the problem that even though brexit loving Labour voters are in the minority, they're spread across many constituencies? Most of which are slim margins.
Apart from that, Corbyn and McDonnell are brexiteers so I find it difficult to trust them as well .
But isn't it also the case that even in strong leave constituencies, the majority of Labour voters are remain? This makes equivocation even in those areas probably not all that profitable as you might lose some remainers whilst not really satisfying the leavers either.I made this point in an earlier post either in here or the Corbyn-thread. Labour Remainers are largely concentrated in cities where Labour MPs have unassailable super-majorities, whereas Labour Leavers are more evenly distributed across a multitude of less secure seats in the North and Midlands. I can't be bothered to dredge it up but I found a list of the top 20 or 30 safe seats from the 2017 election and the vast majority were Labour seats in big cities which voted Remain. The problem for Labour since the referendum is that a majority of their voters are Remainers, but a majority of the seats they hold voted Leave. Sitting on the fence did the trick in 2017 when Brexit day was 2 years off, but it's become increasingly untenable as we've approached and passed the original leaving date.
Because the Brexiters think that the economic downturn was scaremongering and hasn't happened that much yet and so think they're safe from all the consequences. This is partly due to Osborne going on about the emergency budget etc which anyone sensible knew wouldn't happen straight away.depressing that after all the Brexit fiasco over the last few years, people still seem to want it. utterly depressing.
Shame it won’t only affect the 55% in Swindon who voted to leave.Tweet
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Yup, I get the feeling their samples tend to pick up more disaffected Labour voters. Then again, EU election wise, they might be the likelier type to vote this round.Yougov are not in line with other pollsters and have been comparatively generating lower Labour numbers for more than a year.
It would be worthwhile to wait and see if others show a similar crash.
I suggested this the other week, at least now you have your source.Tweet
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They don't pay whatever the current rate of tax is, anyhow. They can feck off.I suggested this the other week, at least now you have your source.
They still pay a big chunk of the overall tax take. Like it or not, it would be a big blow to the Exchequer.They don't pay whatever the current rate of tax is, anyhow. They can feck off.
Do they? I would love to see some data on this.They still pay a big chunk of the overall tax take. Like it or not, it would be a big blow to the Exchequer.
Is this a serious question?Do they? I would love to see some data on this.
It is. Care to address it?Is this a serious question?
Over the weekend Opinium has Labour on 28 and Survation has them on 27 in Westminster VI. Better, but only a little.Yougov are not in line with other pollsters and have been comparatively generating lower Labour numbers for more than a year.
It would be worthwhile to wait and see if others show a similar crash.
