I just don’t really know what people expected.
The whole series built up to 2 wars. Those wars had to happen in season 8. Wars don’t make for flowery dialogue or slow paced story lines.
Much ado about nothing to me.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
The whole series built up to 2 wars. Those wars had to happen in season 8. Wars don’t make for flowery dialogue or slow paced story lines.
Much ado about nothing to me.
What's caf without a massive dose of hysteria.
Fair point there.
If you went to a nice restaurant and had a great starter with a fine wine, followed by a good main course, if then for desert the waiter without pants brought you out a bowl of fresh human faeces and custard-pied it in your face, you could hardly blame the customer he if overreacted a little.
Nope.
they were aiming for horror in the first and ww2/bombing of dresden in the second, they even fecked it for people who liked the last seasons
They definitely firebombed Dresden.
I really just don’t see what folks are upset about. It was what the whole series built up to.
Yeah season 8 was definitely trash.
we get that's what the show was building up to, everyone dying until a bitter ending with the few survivors taking over, the problem was 3 seasons of shitty dialogue, characters dying a slow literary death and abrupt changes in pacing that served the writers boner for cashing in on star wars rather than serving the story
every single character got dumber the second they ran out of source material, they all lost any semblance of humanity they had and became one dimensional chess pieces for d&d to teleport into dull battles that had no emotional payoff because even their fan service sucked hairy balls
varys went from the master of wispers that had an ear to everything and sensed every coming change to a conspiracy theorist that based all his decision making on whims rather than information, him thinking denearys is going to be mad because "coin toss" isn't in his character even a little - at least put some fecking effort in and have varys reason his way to the realisation, because that's what his character does, he gathers information and comes to conclusions, he doesn't act on a fecking whim
his conspiring to overthrow the mad queen might as well have been him wearing a t-shit that said "yo feck that blonde bitch lmao", dude was whispering into a god dam megaphone
tyrions transformation from a boozing, whoring, egocentric wit to a competent hand would have made more sense if they had shown him making even one, just one, good decision but instead they had him feck up every battle, make every wrong choice, advise the queen to be a quaint, pretty face that doesn't use her dragons or any tactic that won her multiple cities. you can't try to turn him into the hand of the winner when everything he did in the show meant that any ruler with half a brain would hang him for being a stupid arsehole who loses your men and battles
john snows dialogue only makes sense if they had a scene where they hodor'd his fecking brain, it's like they wrote the script with [placeholder] on all his lines and then just copy and pasted "i don wannn it" because they didn't want to spend any time actually thinking actual things he would say
the battle of winterfell was absolute horseshit, what kind of moronic general is going to send their strongest warriors head first into an enemy that resurrects the dead and why the feck did they have half them survive anyway, at least have the courage of your writing and kill the overwhelming majority
then we see the unsullied get completely brutalised with only a few battalions making back into the castle
nah bruv don't worry about it, half of them are barely scratched
there was shit all reason for so much of the cast to survive that battle, sam should have been killed when jon snow decided to abandon him, again have the courage of your writing, don't force jon snow to make that decision and there be zero consequences to it
the white walkers did nothing at all. you had all these characters who have been built as the greatest warriors in the land in that castle, jamie, briene, jon snow, jorah mormont and what do they do? they fight mindless zombies the entire time the closest anyone got was jon snow getting cockblocked, which, like fine, that's what ya king does but why not have the other warriors fight wws?
then comes the big epic finale of the show where they all somehow survive 4 times the zombies that killed jorah mormont and the big bad ice king gets easily assassinated yaaay how fun
and i'm not even going to get into the galaxy brain you'd need for a prisoner on death row to choose the fecking king, like whaaaat the feck
@Silva
That stuff just didn’t bother me. Partly because I expected Season 8 to be the “action” part of the show, so I didn’t expect great dialogue and complex storylines. It’s the season where shit hits the fan.
Also partly because I watch TV shows for what they are and I guess just don’t take them too seriously, or as seriously as other people. I’m not looking for life changing stuff here... it’s a fantasy story.
To as many of your points as I really formed an opinion on...
Tyrion’s character arc always had him as a misunderstood, angsty genius who finally finds his niche. The death of his lover and father also brings about the death of the foolish part of his nature, which was gradually happening anyway.
Jon is the dark brooding type. His dialogue is dark and broody. No big deal.
Verys lost most of his spy network. It shows that. He never actually believed the “coin toss” bit. He used it to try to convince other people of what he knew/saw in Dany’s character.
Dothraki made a tactical blunder that fits with their brash nature.
The White Walkers hadn’t really battled much at all the entire series. They do the modern thing and let the foot soldiers fight.
Arya killing the Night King makes sense. Her destiny was to become a living, breathing weapon. That’s why she went to Braavos.
Battle of Winterfell was reminiscent of the defense of Jerusalem in the 2nd Crusade.
That stuff just didn’t bother me. Partly because I expected Season 8 to be the “action” part of the show, so I didn’t expect great dialogue and complex storylines. It’s the season where shit hits the fan.
Also partly because I watch TV shows for what they are and I guess just don’t take them too seriously, or as seriously as other people. I’m not looking for life changing stuff here... it’s a fantasy story.
To as many of your points as I really formed an opinion on...
Tyrion’s character arc always had him as a misunderstood, angsty genius who finally finds his niche. The death of his lover and father also brings about the death of the foolish part of his nature, which was gradually happening anyway.
Jon is the dark brooding type. His dialogue is dark and broody. No big deal.
Verys lost most of his spy network. It shows that. He never actually believed the “coin toss” bit. He used it to try to convince other people of what he knew/saw in Dany’s character.
Dothraki made a tactical blunder that fits with their brash nature.
The White Walkers hadn’t really battled much at all the entire series. They do the modern thing and let the foot soldiers fight.
Arya killing the Night King makes sense. Her destiny was to become a living, breathing weapon. That’s why she went to Braavos.
Battle of Winterfell was reminiscent of the defense of Jerusalem in the 2nd Crusade.
there were 2 battle episodes, this apologism only makes sense if they hadn't bothered with the other 6 episodes, and they didn't bother with them, they just had all the characters say the same things over and over and over again
he didn't find his fecking niche, he became dumber and dumber and dumber and should have been hanged for costing so many lives in every battle he oversaw for denearys
eh i won wann it
thanks, that's another example of their bad writing
so kill them all because that's the only thing that makes sense
the zombies hadn't fought much either, the wws had as many fights throughout
i don't give a shit who killed him, it was extremely stupid that he was killed so easily
really, did jerusalem have a lazy philosopher king come up with the plan too?
brans seminal work "the rape files" really prepped him to be a wise ruler
Themes are for 6th grade book report.
there would have been zero change in quality of the show if the vast majority of the characters were killed in season 5, because all they did was stand around waiting for the fan favourites to kill someone
What makes a great tv show is how everything makes sense and fits together properly. Season 8 goes in completely the wrong direction and the characters in season 8 seem to be completely different people than they are in the previous 7. if you're going to ignore that because the action was somehow satisfying to you then fair enough.
Donny, you're out of your element!
Apologism is a bit of a stretch.
Ep 1 & 2 = get the armies north, show Cercei’s betrayal, set up the Great War
Ep 4 = show aftermath of Great War and show Dany’s continued break with reality
Ep 6 = show aftermath and wrap it up.
Makes sense to me.
He was a great bureaucrat. That’s his niche.
Okay.
Respectfully disagree. It’s quite obvious how Verys is using that legend to try to get people on his side of the argument.
Having 0 survivors makes less sense.
If you’re a Walker, you know if you fall, every wight you command falls. Makes 0 sense for them to go into a pitched battle. That became obvious when one of them died earlier in the show.
Or awesome on Arya’s part.
Actually, at the beginning the king was a leper who had started his rule as a teenager.
I just honestly don’t see what the big deal is.
Maybe folks should sit down and watch the whole series again in a short time period like I did. I dunno. I liked it.
and those episodes were all shit,
the armies going up north was the worst kind of fan service imaginable and half the interactions made zero sense
the aftermath of the great was mostly undermining the harrowing loss of life we witnessed in the previous episode
the aftermath of the show WAS A PRISONER ON DEATH ROW CHOOSING THE KING WHAT THE feck HOW DO PROFESSIONAL WRITERS NOT QUIT THE SECOND THEY THINK SOMETHING THIS STUPID AGHHHHH
what the feck are you talking about, he wasn't a bureaucrat, there was no fecking bureaucracy, jesus christ this is easily your dumbest analysis yet
that isn't what his character does, this is just another example of shitty writing, he might use legends to sway superstitious people, not fecking tyrion who is meant to be a logical advisor, that they're having these conversation is just stupid, all the things you're writing to defend their interactions are more examples of how shit the writing was
they did go into battle though, they just went to the action and stood there while their sick leader got wrecked every easily, barely an inconvenience
don't show everyone dying if you don't want to fecking kill them, they're random warriors not jesus fecking christ
uh actually all my posts are bureaucracy
Well, obviously you think those episodes were poor. You’re just saying the same stuff now. I just don’t agree.
The armies had to come north. It’s led to it the whole show. “Winter is coming” etc.
Of course it was undermining it. Dany was nuts.
Tyrion is a tragic hero. It follows that trope.
The Hand is a bureaucrat. It’s essentially the equivalent of the Mandarin Grand Secretary.
Can you talk without hysterics or pointless name calling? I’m starting to think you’re just a person who is impossible to have a normal conversation with.
It was all he had left to use.
And he’d always had conversations like that. Look at all the times he had shady conversations with Littlefinger.
They obviously expected the Night King to easily kill the little girl. It’s the ones you don’t expect that get you.
They didn’t show everyone dying. You incorrectly implied that.
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they showed everyone outside the castle dying and only a handful of unsullied and a few hordes of northmen getting into the castle, then they show the unsullied and northmen die in the castle with only the main cast standing at the end
"why would you assume everyone died?"
holy shit dude
"why would you assume everyone died?"
holy shit dude
You really can’t have a normal conversation, can you?
You don’t have to respond. It’s pointless to try to talk to you on a normal level.
i still can't get over the bureaucracy thing, here we have a dragon queen with two armies, one led by grey worm and one led by beefcake, what exactly was tyrion doing if he was a bureaucrat because all they showed on the screen was him being wrong about everything
maybe i don't understand bureaucracy, is it when you talk to you mate about overthrowing the queen who's job you're making harder?
maybe i don't understand bureaucracy, is it when you talk to you mate about overthrowing the queen who's job you're making harder?
name one thing in season 5-8 that Tyrion did that showed he's a good bureaucrat, because this is genuinely bewildering me, what did he actually do that showed this transformation to competent high level bureaucrat, or more generally, just competent at anything at all
who can forget all those kafkaeqsue novels where the bureaucratic grind of talking in large empty rooms really mirrors the modern death of self
Bureaucrat...
Now, consider what the job of the Hand was, and consider what the job of the Small Council was.
Now consider that these roles are modeled on historical bureaucratic entities like the Mandarin bureaucrats of China and the Privy Council bureaucrats of Great Britain.
As to the post you made as I typed this. Don’t backtrack. Your original post that started this tangent was...
That is quite simply incorrect.
which part of deanerys armies had even a semblance of beurocrasy, what did tyrion do that showed he was in any way involved in this? throughout the show the hand tells the other members of the council what to do and they do it, that's how ned did it, how tywin did, tyrion even as joffreys hand had other people do these things for him and during his first stint he had to get bailed out by daddy, during his second stint he fecked it up completely
so, what bureaucrat things did he do during seasons 5-8 that showed competence? he wasn't involved in the running of the unsullied, he wasn't involved in the running of the dothraki, he advised the queen to do shit battle tactics and get lose
even when he was in myreen he almost lost the city because he was shit and had to get bailed out by dragons
just awful
i'm only going on what i saw on the show, and what i saw was the hands of the kings and queens acting as advisors and tyrion was by a significant distance the one who most deserved the noose
It’s not my fault you don’t know what a bureaucracy is or that there are clear historical examples of them that apply to what the author wrote into the story... which is something that the author is famous for in the story.
It’s sad that you apparently don’t have the ability to casually discuss something as trivial as a television show.
It’s sad that you apparently don’t have the ability to casually discuss something as trivial as a television show.
what's sad is that you've put more thought into the show in a few days of watching it than the writers did in years of writing it
also i don't care about what the role of the hand is in the books or in history, in the show they're shown to be an advisor not a bureaucrat, this is the writers fault, if they want to show tyrion as a bureaucrat do that, don't show him to be a shit advisor, and the reason they didn't show him as a bureaucrat is because he's the top advisor.
this is a show that had zombies, dragons, resurrection and shadow babies - that the story was based on medieval england doesn't mean shit, or that the romans had a bureaucracy doesn't meant shit, the text is the TV show, not your history books
this is a show that had zombies, dragons, resurrection and shadow babies - that the story was based on medieval england doesn't mean shit, or that the romans had a bureaucracy doesn't meant shit, the text is the TV show, not your history books
Educate yourself on what the author based the position of the Hand on before calling me an idiot next time.
but this doesn't matter, the text is the TV show not the books, if you want to talk about tyrion in the books go the books threadthe books said:
but fine lets assume even the TV show doesn't matter and all the bureaucracy happened off screen
what good bureaucratic thing did tyrion do just list one please what did he actually do that showed the change from whoring alcoholic to competent bureaucrat
Season 8 still makes me angry. Ruined the entire show for me. No desire to rewatch it or read the books
Was it because it was poor on its own right in your mind or because you had built an expectation in your mind of what it should be that it didn’t meet?