If he doesn’t perform it’ll be Ole’s fault for playing him out of position. The usual Caf stuff. Or he’ll be the new Messi if he does something good and then panic will explode over his contract situation..,53 pages. What will happen when he actually starts to play?
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If hevis good he should start playing. I said on other thread. If Fati with 16y can play for Barca, if Chelsea can play with kids who play for the first time in PL than i don't know why we wait.
I think that when you are a kid you need full game to show what you can. When you play 10-15 minutes you just play it safe because you are nervous and you don't want to feck up something
Fati is an exceptional young player, akin to Rooney. Gomes is not in the same league, so a poor comparison. The Chelsea ‘kids’ are older than Gomes, so poor comparison.
He’ll get games, once we’re playing a few games a week. Too many panicking possums on here.
Greenwood is getting games for United, it seems to be being ignored as it doesn’t fit the possums agenda ‘on oh look what other clubs are doing’.
A guy like Fati is a rare thing, very few 16 year olds play regularly at the highest level. I can only think of Rooney and Cesc in the Premier League in the past couple of decades.
All the players that have appeared for Chelsea this season have been on loan Abraham had a 130 senior apps before this season, mount around 90 and Tomori 95.
Whilst we want to finish 4 and all that, Ole has a free hit this season to play the youth especially given the lack of transfer activity in certain positions and the players that have left. It's interesting how irrespective of the rhetoric, the pressure to win (or not lose) is what it ultimately comes down to. The Increase pressure of losing by playing youth seems to be greater than the risk to play players that you might not be here to see the benefit from playing now....look at the teams picked so far this season, speaks volumes.....
You got me wrong. I am just saying that we have perfect situation to play them now. We are thin in attack and especially in those positions( rw and no10). I don't think that those 10,15 minutes that they got then and there will change anything. We can play them now and see how they will adapt.
If we have no10 who is playing good then ok, if we have rw who is playing good then again ok but we have problems on those positions so why not try them.
But i am not panicking. I am sure that Greenwood and Gomes will get their minutes this season. My favourite Chong not that much i am afraid
No sure we will. If we are competing, he won't play them. If we are struggling, he won't play them either. If like Chelsea (I know the circumstances was imposed on them), if he started the season playing them, then irrespective of either circumstances, it wouldn't have mattered because it would be down to those players to learn from either scenario and the fans would be patient as they would recognise that.
No, based on his performances in the academy, youth internationals, U23s and friendlies.
He is able to keep the ball much better than the players we had on the pitch. He should have came on. Even Chong was able to change the game when he came on.
So nothing like the Ronneys or Ronaldos who are already full international at 19 then.
What else can you based on?
Youth games? How many look like they are world beaters in those and came out as nothing?
Looks it looks like I'm underestimating his ability. I am not. For United's sake, I hope he becomes a world beater.
It is just that people are not managing their expectations with him properly. It got to the point of being ridiculous now.
Predicted line ups for the Astana game are prove of this. Some people expect/hope to see a line up that's includes Gomes, Chong, Greenwood and Garner. I would happily see 2 of these lads start on Thursday and another two against Rochdale. If they are really ready to start in the PL they should dominate these games. If not it's OK, we just continue to ease them in the team
You can base it on talent. Talent doesn't mean a player has a god given right to become world class or even a decent player in senior football (Ravel is a prime example of this). That's not the point of contention though. It's, does Gomes have the talent to become world class and the answer is yes based on his ability which we saw at youth level.
Gomes is not McTominay, who was if you asked most United youth watchers, pretty average talent amongst United youth players. Gomes is also not Rashford. Rashford was one of the standout talents for his generation of United youth players, along with Gribbin. If you were to compare him to youth footballers across Europe, what he showed at youth level wasn't particularly stand out in nature. And by that I mean that the player is seen as a prodigious talent. He was a good talent, but I feel plenty of those types exist every year. Gomes was the most talented English talent produced by United since Ravel, and prior to that, Scholes? Gomes made his way to the u18 side earlier than Rashford for this reason (also dominated that level at a younger age), and why he also made his United debut at age 16.
It's clear to see why. His technical ability is greater than everyone we've had at United besides Ravel, and possibly Pogba. Others like Januzaj, Gribbin, etc... come close, but I feel like everyone would agree that Gomes was better at least slightly. The vision he showed at a really young age is rare.
I think the fact that Gomes managed to win youth golden balls at tournaments involving the biggest clubs show this. And if you were to ask English youth enthusiasts, they would tell you that Gomes was one of the early standout talents of what is largely seen as a golden generation for England.
Important to note that, after I've said all of this, It's not to hype him up as some guaranteed star. He's clearly not Messi or Rooney. But would I be surprised if he becomes world class if he manages to put his talent to use at the senior level more than I would be for Rashford, Lingard, or McTominay? No.
Thats what people are basing his talent on. It's not through pre season performances. It's through ability. Ability to have the ball stick to his feet. Ability to pick out a final ball. I do feel we're agreeing that Gomes isn't destined to be some world beater. I just feel like you're conflating that with the idea that if it does work out for him, he could be world class. Just like if everything went right for Ravel he could be world class.
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Probably based on years of watching him, same as most others who rate him highly.
Those who've 'watched him for years' who's opinions really matter, like his coaches etc are all advising Ole. Yet again we get fans thinking they know best. Ole has shown he will start a 17 year old as he's believes and has been informed he's ready.
Lets not forget Pogba Morrison and Tunnicliffe were going to have our midfield sort for the next decade not so long ago, as they were a dominant trio in midfield in the youth and under 18's.
Januzaj was nailed on to be world class etc etc. There's a lot more people in the know behind the scene's. Gomes may or may not make the grade, we just don't know. He'll have to take his chances and prove the point when his game come over the next few weeks. As he will get game time.
Looking good in the reserves and pre-season friendlies means nothing, as Pereira has shown in recent years.
I do rate Gomes as a player, he's the heart beat of the United sides he's played in, just links everything good in those teams. But it in no way means he's going to transfer that to the first team.
You don't know what the coaches are thinking. For all we know Butt deems Gomes as ready, but McKenna deems Chong as more ready. I do wonder if McKenna is influencing Ole on that matter because it is true that when he was coaching the u18s, Chong was performing better in 2017/18. Gomes has performed better in 2016/17, and 2018/19, as well as the tiny cameos for the first team.
None of us know though. Like JB said, the plan is likely to start them out in cup games first.
I don't need to know what they're thinking nor do I claim to do so.
If Greenwood at 17 gets to start a game, someone within the club has held the opinion he's ready. Someone who knows the lad far far better than anyone who posts on the Caf.
If Gomes is still waiting for his first start then obviously someone thinks he's not ready. Actions always speak louder than words, or fans opinions. As for Chong getting ahead of him, I'd say its more he's an actual winger and we're lacking them.
Ole will gave them all games, then it's up to them to perform. If he's not been given a go by November then I can understand frustrations building with the fans, but we've played 5 games so far, you'd honestly think we were over half way through the season by the amount of moaning going on in this thread.
Coaches aren't always right either. Just look at Pogba/Sancho situations.
Sometimes players just need that extra movivation and challenge to grow to the next level. Playing your best in the reserves every week just doesn't motivate some people.
Sometimes players just need that extra movivation and challenge to grow to the next level. Playing your best in the reserves every week just doesn't motivate some people.
As I said, physically no, talent wise yes.
Rooney and Ronaldo were playing first team and international football in their teens because they were physically developed enough and talented enough to play first team football at a very young age. IMO Gomes has that level of talent but is not just small but weak also, hence hasn't broken through yet. There's nothing he can do about his height but he has been working on his strength.
We'll see anyway, he'll get game time in the cups, hopefully this Thursday.
Surrounded by the right players he'll be a joy to watch knitting the play together.
If a young player wishes to leave and is offered a new deal which they turn down to force a move, it's not the coach who's at fault.
Pogba could have waited his turn at United, Sancho has players ahead of him who were leagues ahead of him at the time. Had Pogba hung around a few more months he'd have gotten his chances, unfortunately he got those chances at Juve. If Pogba had looked at who was ahead of him, he could have seen an easy path into the team. Sancho was 17 and had Sterling, Sane and Silva well ahead of him at the time. I can see why he thought he'd not get changes as the guys ahead of him were hardly much older.
If we refer Gomes to the same situation he needs to be looking at Mata for his direct rival for game time.
And coaches are right more often than not.
Like I said already, the fans need to be a bit patience as well. It has only been 5 games.
They are acting like we have 19 years old Messi who can't get a game.
Like I said already, the fans need to be a bit patience as well. It has only been 5 games.
They are acting like we have 19 years old Messi who can't get a game.
Francis Jeffers
On a serious note though - Michael Owen is the only other decent one i can think of.
Aaron Lennon. Owen was 17.Francis Jeffers
On a serious note though - Michael Owen is the only other decent one i can think of.
Really good (old) piece on him in the MEN
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...otball-news/man-utd-news-angel-gomes-16803027
The problem is really pogba should play there.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...otball-news/man-utd-news-angel-gomes-16803027
The problem is really pogba should play there.
Very true, he needs games in the EL and cups to break him in. We are impatient in the main part because Mata is done and the desire for a replacement is so strong. Not fair to expect a 17 year old to come straight in though.
I’d agree.... if he was 17
Probably the same person that calls Lingard a youth prospect!
I saw someone on here call him 16 the other day
James Milner
And if he was 19?
Players who made their first team debut at 16 in England.Francis Jeffers
On a serious note though - Michael Owen is the only other decent one i can think of.
Ki Jana Hoever - Liverpool
Jose Baxter - Everton
Wayne Rooney - Everton
Francis Jeffers - Everton
James Vaughan - Everton
Jack Wilshere - Arsenal
James Milner - Leeds
Matthew Briggs - Fulham
If he doesn't get game time against Astana or Rochdale, then we might as well send him on loan. We won't get weaker opposition this season.
Can't see him starting. Hope he gets considerable minutes.
Rochdale should be a given but if he doesn't start tomorrow then that game becomes rather irrelevant when addressing his position at the club
We're taking the EL seriously, as we should, but even so, we're playing the kids when possible - Greenwood and Axel are pretty much guaranteed to start at this point, for example.
If Gomes gets the start, then great. If not, he'll get at least 30 mins to show what he can do and then start the Rochdale game the week after. After Chong got his sub appearance last week, I think he'll be the one to start on Thursday and Gomes will come off the bench IMO.
We were saying that about Pereira just a few years ago. Then he played like 5 games for us and we threw him under the bus when he couldn't cope with the demands of the league. Ole is doing what he thinks is best for him and United.
Is anybody on here worried that he might not sign a new contract if he doesn't get any game time soon?
But that's what you want to find out, no?
And if he can't get gametime against Astana at home, tell me why he should sign a new contract with us?
Everyone is
I’m hoping he starts tomorrow !
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