Anything new on Gomes. Last I read was he wanted out. Don't know if it's true as haven't heard anymore on this.
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Where did you read he wanted out? He’s never ever stated anything like that, it’s usually people making crap up and posting it as some kind of truth. He’s negotiating a contract with United, that’s all anyone has heard thus far.
I read it in early November mate, That's why I asked the Question, if it is true.
Juve and Barca were supposedly interested, is what I read.
Reports from Manchester Evening News stated recently that Gomes was offered a contract to extend his stay at Old Trafford, but the youngster refused that chance. Gomes is seen as one of the most significant prospects in United’s youth setup, and he won the young player of the year award in 2017. The attacking midfielder has also broken through into the senior team, and he has made five appearances for United this season.
Real Madrid probably sees Gomes as an option for the future as he is yet not ready to be a regular at the senior level. He had some mixed games so far for Manchester United when he got his chances in the Europa League this season.
Gomes recently deleted all mentions of Manchester United from his Instagram account which was taken as an indication by many that he is unhappy at the club. His apprehension towards signing a new contract also point towards the same. The Galacticos can sign him on a free transfer in the summer, and that would make Gomes’ signing a low risk one.
What can Gomes offer?
The English ace’s standout asset is his ability to weave out of tight spaces in midfield. He is quick, agile and has an impressive balance which makes it hard for defenders to dislodge him off the ball. He can use his body well to shield the ball, and he has the skills to beat his man. Gomes has decent speed, but he isn’t express as some wingers. Hence, he usually prefers to play as the no. 10.
The United man is still raw, and he needs to work on his decision making in the final third. He also sometimes tries to force the issue instead of keeping things simple when in the possession, and that is one area he might have to improve. As mentioned, Gomes is unlikely to break into the Real Madrid team, given the talent they have.
Maybe the Los Blancos can send him away on loan after signing him so that he can get regular minutes to improve on his game. Gomes has the raw ingredients to thrive at the top level, but the club shouldn’t expect miracles from him if they go on to secure his signature in the summer.
Actually you could see his quality for the first team too, unlike Chong. No idea why you lump Gomes and Chong together. Gomes' problem hasn't been him making awful decisions, and looking technically inept. His performances have merely been quiet. And I think this was exacerbated by him being played on the left wing in 2 starts. There is more of an onus to dribble past players and causing havoc by running at defenses when on the wings. So failing to do that can make you look like you've done nothing. Just think of Greenwood's time on the wings. It's not like he's been terrorizing defenses from the wing. He's just succeeding at translating his finishing onto the first team when given an opportunity. A lot of his performances have been reliant on his goal scoring, so that him being more passive (not forcing the issue) is much more tolerable on the wings.
This is a better critique of Gomes
I agree. I think he does need to get better with his movement off the ball. However, it's hard to learn that when not playing for the first team. He gets more time and space for the youth teams.
To be fair to Lingard, he was decent and I don't think any other 10 in our team would have done better. He was a key player in several of our counter-attacks, which Michael Cox at The Athletic pointed out brilliantly. Lingard has not been great this season or last, but against City and Spurs he definitely did his job.
To some degree, I agree. But I worry because it looks a bit attitude related. I might be wrong. But his style is so arrogant. Chong is not as talented, and his movement is not good, but at least he moves alot!
Honestly I don't need Cox to tell me about what I saw with my own eyes. The bar is set so so low with him that something truly average seems extraordinary
Moving a lot without any real purpose is useless.
I'm just pointing out that he deserves some credit for those games. Obviously, he has been below par otherwise.
Anyone said otherwise?
Gomes abilities are not suited to the way we play. Simple as that. Same as any other technical but not physical player would be next to worthless in a team preferring to play low block and possessionless counter-attacking football.
So he deserves credit for not being shit in those games? Is this the standard we hold a Man United player earning £100k a week to now? “Just don’t be shit” Because he was nothing special in those games and he’s being praised by his fans on here because we won and I honestly don’t think you’d be saying he deserves any praise had we lost those games.
That's the unfortunate truth.
I think he'll move to a possession-based team and develop into a very good player.
We didn't lose and he played well. Just stop being negative when there's no reason. He played well in those games. His general play is another matter though and he is rightly criticized for that.
Negative in what way? Did he score ? Did he directly assist a goal as the number 10? Played well in what way? Pressing? Running around? Enlighten me please because I know what I saw in those games and he was average.
And if being average equates to playing well, no wonder Ole keeps picking him and we’re where we are. How the standards have fallen at this club.
This. Anytime he manages not to be a liability in a game, he’s praised to the heavens.
He was playing out wide against a static, dug in defence. For most part of the first half and part of the second, Luke Shaw wasn't able or didn't care to bring Gomes into the game by making runs which would have enabled Gomes to pick him out and make some interchanging play. It got better in the second half when Shaw decided to venture forward a bit more. The chance that Chong missed, a horrible miss for that matter was down to Gomes. Astana picked up the ball and attacked from our right back position instantly, and scored. Gomes wasn't playing as a number 10 or defensive midfielder, the attack that led to the goal didn't come down his lane. The miss by Chong and subsequent attack by Astana - from which they equalised - was the main reason we lost. If Chong had scored, we would be 2:0 up and that would be game over for Astana.
Yes he was partly at fault for their second and winning goal but there is one or even two other players who also failed to do their duty. It's not as if it was entirely his fault. The same Lingard we are talking about has practically cost us 5 points in two recent games, with all his pressing ability. And he hasn't been significantly contributing to attack inspite of the insane amount of game time he has received.
Back to the second goal against Astana that was not to be. The reason Shaw had the possibilty to lay the cross that begged for a simple tap in from Chong was down to Gomes' ability. First they did a one-two exchange, and Shaw saw himself inside the box of Astana, in a rather tight space. Gomes picked him out with a deft touch, the kind Lingard hasn't managed for once in several games with the first team, including that Astana game. I have been trying to find a clip of that play without success but I don't think what I am describing is in doubt. Mind you, Lingard was our playmaker that day, and Gomes a mere winger.
Gomes played better as number 10 against Astana at old Trafford (the first game, for 65 mins or so) than mighty Lingard did against the same team for almost 90 mins. I mean forward looking passes, not being scared to take up position, receive the ball and make good use of it in advanced and tight spaces, helping create goal scoring chances, etc. He won at least 3 free kicks in (somewhat) dangerous positions due to his ability - good first touch and close control. I still recall him taking out their defence with a deft touch and turn, and laying the ball off to our overlapping left back (I think Young) who in turn layed a pass across the goal line. It wasn't Gomes' fault that one of our attackers didn't anticipate that pass and move into position for what should have been a goal. Maybe Young wasn't quite precise in his pass, can't recall now. But my point is that without Gomes's skill, that opportunity to socre wouldn't have arisen in that manner. Lingard hasn't done anything resembling that in almost a year. So what's the point of his energy and pressing? Let him go to the wing and help track back attacking defenders and wingers. In the first Astana game Gomes was migthly let down by the midfield duo of Matic and Fred, plus the struggling Chong, Greenwood (to an extent) and Rashford. He couldn't do it all by himself. Not saying his play was fantastic but he was one of our better players that day. It didn't and still doesn't make sense to stick him to the left wing after that game, including the second against Astana in which we had migthy Lingard as our no 10.
The entire argument that Gomes' lack of game time in a position far more suited to his ability is due to his low energy and pressing is totally negated by the fact that Ole has played Mata in that same position in a number of occasion. Against Leeds in the preseason, Gomes din't look like he couldn't be bothered pressing and running. Before anyone talks down on Leeds, last time I checked they were top of the championship. Does anyone see Lingard being accepted as a no 10 or attacking midfielder by any of the teams that got promoted from the championship last season? I mean Shefield Utd, Aston Villa.
For a starter Ole has given Chong better playing time than Gomes, even after he played very badly in earlier appearances. And comparing his situation to that of Ravel is head scratching, in my opinion. We also had a Paul Pogba crowd, why don't you use it as a reference? There is no way to know what Gomes can offer is he is not given the chance and many rightly believe Ole hasn't done so. There could be other reasons but ability is not one of them.
I understand the bolded a bit but maybe we should cast our mind back to the pre-season when for some inexplicable reason Ole decided to shut him out after playing a good game against Leeds as a midfielder, prefering to give him a token 10 mins or so from the wing against against AC Milan and Spurs. He was lively against those two teams and that is easily understandable. First the entire team was playing, with full backs getting forward as normal. Secondly the opponents were also playing, not with a static defence. Thirdly other team mates were willing to make exchanges with him. I think one of the duties of a manager is to know when and how best to use a player, especially an upcoming one.
My problem with those who have dismissed Gomes in preference to Lingard is that they can't point to anything Lingard brings to the team apart from his pressing and runnng, and occasional hiding. Yes the hiding accusation is true. I thought it was being overblown until I decided to pay good attention to him versus Everton. At a point it appeared he was determined to counteract his team mates, especially Martial. In that match against city we had Martial racing into space and all Lingard needed to do was make what should be an easy over the top pass. Something even the tiring Matic can pull off. But Lingard failed woefully and the chance to set Martial up was lost. It wasn't even a case of getting the ball over the top but having it out of the best attacking spot. He failed to see the leg or body of a city player right in front of him. What manner of attacking midfield player?
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The few times he's played this season he's not really done much to suggest we should have been playing him more, and we've seen if the young players do well Ole will pick them. In the case of Gomes his competition is Pereira and Lingard so I suspect there can only either be fitness issues or he just hasn't done well enough.
He's got a lot of ability so hopefully something changes.
He's got a lot of ability so hopefully something changes.
I would say thanks for the part in bold.
No one has said Gomes is the messiah, but it's not fair to judge him on a diferent standard from others. As you rightly pointed out, Greenwood has had two or three poor games, even when he scored brilliant goals. It was right not to condemn him because he is only one for the future. It was the correct thing to look at his positive contributions and give him time to adjust. And Gomes deserves the same opportunity. His display against Astana at Old trafford showed that the hope (or hype as some would prefer to call it) isn't misplaced. Here are two articles about that game, in case some have forgotten:
https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/angel-gomes-astana-performance-manchester-united/
https://www.footballfancast.com/pre...wed-what-all-the-hype-is-about-against-astana
The first one actually has a tweet from our own Schemeichel - for those who also like to quote our legends
His own words, based on Gome's performance against Astana, the only time he has been given a fair chance since pre-season
" I like how Angel Gomes plays, looks like the one to break the deadlock. Agree?
I don't think it's due to arrogance. He's just a very patient player who only takes what defenses give him. My critique in 2017 was this exact criticism. He was being too passive a bit like Kagawa. This is why I used to cringe whenever newbies would label Gomes as a future Messi, when he's more like Iniesta (ignoring quality, only playstyle- although those newbies were ignorantly serious in their hype). That's also been a reason why I feel like he can work as a deeper midfielder, because that passive criticism goes out the window. Gomes is very much a midfielder. I think Greenwood is similar in that he's not a bundle of energy, but his quality shines through with his decision making and his final third quality.
Chong is more like Williams. Both players are bundles of energy. These traits are all present even when they (Gomes, Greenwood, Chong, Williams) excel for the youth teams. So it's not a case of these youngsters having upped their standard in attitude. All of them are playing like they would for the youth teams, but obviously the men's game gives them less space, less time, and a tougher physical battle.
The only way to make the best use of your players, and especially upcoming youth players, is to identify their strengths and weaknesses and use them in such way as to maximimise their strengths and minimise their limitations. For most, if not all of our youngsters, it's pretty easy to analyse them as you've done. The question is why our coaching staff don't see what's obvious, and continue to play a not established kid as a winger when he hasn't got the attributes to succeed their. Especially against a static defence and with his team being terrible.
Regarding the part in bold, Gomes has played as a deep lying midfielder for the youth team but I am wondering if that would suit him at this stage. Imagine him against Burnley or worst still a physical but skillfull premier league side. Combined with a piss poor United line-up like in the ones he's played in this season. If he gets constantly harrased and bullied, and has no support from his team mates in terms of passing the ball around - short, quick exchanges - I fear he would get in trouble. And since the attacking team gets the benefit of the doubt, chances are that he might not be so effective in that situation and could "lose" the ball in dangerous areas. Then he'll get crucified and written off. I'll take him as deep midfielder over a winger though
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Done well today I thought. Showed some nice bite to win the ball back for the goal.
If he isn't ahead of Lingard for the number 10 spot by now then I don't know what to say.
If he isn't ahead of Lingard for the number 10 spot by now then I don't know what to say.
Tbh he should be ahead all 3 of Mata, Lingard and Pereira simply because of how shite the other 3 are.
Thought he was positive from him today (we desperately need him on this forum
but he needs to be stronger on the ball.Precisely.
Is sleek in his movements but did nothing with the ball. Passing was poor and also didnt dribble well at the end. He needs to be given minutes which Lingard is stealing.
Surprise inclusion. I thought he had gone.
I can see the quality but he looks so casual off the ball. One big reason no one passed to him, he was strolling around and not making any runs. Does he not realize there are two City players next to him? They will rob him of the ball if they try to pass to him.
First time I have been impressed with him in a senior competitive game.
Should have played a lot more till today.
I think that's to do with him being too good for the U23s and not getting enough exposure at PL level.
He'll learn he needs to be on his toes more.
I thought he did well tonight though. At one stage he was back taking the ball off the back 4 and getting things going and showed a few nice touches.
He needs more game time to develop and make the step up but he there's an argument to throw him in from now on because our other options are useless.
Great to see him get a few minutes again. Very difficult of course because City was just toying with us but i thought he did ok. Would love to see him start next game. Even if he is lightweight he still offers more then Periera and Lingard.
Good little cameo from Gomes. Got into the half spaces and was positive. Encouraging signs. Hopefully he gets more game time.
If he doesn't start 80% of Lingard's games for the rest of the season, I think we need a new staff and coach.
Really, why? He didn't do anything spectacular. I'm saying this as a Gomes fan.
This.
Technically, he is one of our best players. I bet he has the best first touch in the squad, but he isnt suited to counterattacking football though.
Pochettino would turn him into a world beater. He needs more trust and minutes, which he wont get with Ole.
Pochettino would turn him into a world beater. He needs more trust and minutes, which he wont get with Ole.
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