SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[11101]

I admit I'm having trouble processing this because I thought the virus could live on any surfaces for at least a few hours. For instance, you get an infected person coughing on his hand who then touches the button for the traffic lights and then someone else comes along later and presses the button and then unthinkingly touches his/her face a bit later. Isn't that a highly transmissible and realistic scenario that could be mitigated by a total lockdown?

Freely admit I have zero scientific understanding of this but i'm seeing quite a lot of conflicting information and different ideas.

It spreads multiple ways, the more chances of having contact with it the more likely you are to get it.

Home isolation is not designed to keep you away from others, it's designed to keep your family away from others, since it's assumed that everybody in a family unit will get it if one person has it. That's why the way the incubation period looks in mathematical models is much longer than the actual incubation period.

US research suggests it can survive 24 hours on cardboard and up to 3 days on plastic and some metals. It can survive in air for up to 3 hours, ordinarily droplets fall to the floor quickly but in very still air (ie a stuffy living room) can stay airborne for hours.

 

[Sarni]

I'm really not sure what's behind the lack of testing. Vallance very much in committee yesterday seemed to want more and suggested the blame was elsewhere and wasn't about advice.

It appears to me not a matter of policy but an inability to organise at the pace required so they're prioritising actions. They'll get round to the type of testing seen elsewhere eventually.

I'd expect it's cost. I don't think those tests are free and there's labor cost to perform them too.

 

[horsechoker]

Teachers shouldn't be getting a few months off with full pay for me. They should be in schools working with the small group of kids who can't stay at home because their families work in NHS etc. They could do their planning for next year too.

Seen loads of tweets from teachers who clearly just want to be off work and get full pay. Absolutely no chance. You can still work like the rest of us.

They can still provide work to the students or even do some online lessons but I know the latter is harder to implement. Obviously they need something to live on even though there are many who won't get anything (but they should)

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Just spent the day in London and nearly everyone I spoke to reckons the city will be on full lockdown by weekend. Most businesses are shutting up shop anyway as they've not got any customers

I work here, Hatton Garden, and the rumours just exploded that the army have been given permission to deploy to enforce a lockdown tonight. I just want to know if that's serious

 

[Sarni]

I wonder at what point this will all sink in and we will begin to understand the scale of it in terms of history.

I don't think (or hope not) that lives lost will be anywhere near the Spanish Flu / World Wars. But I fear that the economical impact and the way that it will change the lives of the majority of the world will be just as great. It really is terrifying to get your head around.

This. Funny seeing people discuss football or basketball returning. We won't see any sports with live audience for a very long time.

 

[Dante]

I admit I'm having trouble processing this because I thought the virus could live on any surfaces for at least a few hours. For instance, you get an infected person coughing on his hand who then touches the button for the traffic lights and then someone else comes along later and presses the button and then unthinkingly touches his/her face a bit later. Isn't that a highly transmissible and realistic scenario that could be mitigated by a total lockdown?

Freely admit I have zero scientific understanding of this but i'm seeing quite a lot of conflicting information and different ideas.

A worldwide, prison-like lockdown for 4 weeks is by far the best way of tackling this outbreak.

Unfortunately, that's not possible in any sort of practical way. Going to prison is considered a punishment which is why everyone tries to avoid it.

Yes, the scenario you posted is possible (though unlikely, so please don't get too paranoid). It's why we all catch colds and flus every year. But even a regular lockdown will require people being allowed to leave their homes to go food shopping .

All we can do is try to come up with solutions that practise the art of the possible, whilst also trying to mitigate the inevitable economic collapse (eg. people losing jobs, homes and having no money) and the subsequent social pushback.

We also have to factor in that even if eradicate C19 in our small corner of the world, it could continue to exist in Asia, Africa or America and boomerang back after we try to lift the lockdown.

Basically, the virus is going to eventually defeat all our best efforts and infect 70-80% of the planet. We just have to try and slow it down at tactical times (informed by behavioural science and economics) so the NHS doesn't breakdown.

 

[Bubz27]

They could do their planning for next year too.

You don't really know how planning works do you.

Someone I know treats a doctor in the army saying that it's complete lockdown from tomorrow evening.

 

[2cents]

Glad to see we’re trying to emulate South Korea:

Coronavirus Ireland: Varadkar told that 15,000 tests a day can be carried out

TAOISEACH Leo Varadkar has been told that Irish health authorities should be able to carry out some 15,000 Coronavirus tests per day as efforts to battle the pandemic intensify.

On a visit to the National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL) in UCD on Wednesday, Mr Varadkar said that testing combined with social isolation were essential to combating the spread of the virus as had been shown in South Korea...

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ind...-tests-a-day-can-be-carried-out-39055060.html

 

[stepic]

I work here, Hatton Garden, and the rumours just exploded that the army have been given permission to deploy to enforce a lockdown tonight. I just want to know if that's serious

There’s a whole lot of bullshit on social media. I’m sure there will be a lockdown soon but it won’t be some sudden thing with no warning.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/index.html

All you need to know above.

 

[11101]

It's inevitable. Happened in Italy, and protocols changing in UK.

There's a reason why people view health workers as heroes, and that's partly because they will ultimately knowingly put themselves at risk for the greater good of helping others.

Lombardy is using 1 million masks per day and accounts for about half the total cases in Italy.

 

[Sarni]

A worldwide, prison-like lockdown for 4 weeks is by far the best way of tackling this outbreak.

Unfortunately, that's not possible in any sort of practical way. Going to prison is considered a punishment which is why everyone tries to avoid it.

Yes, the scenario you posted is possible (though unlikely, so please don't get too paranoid). It's why we all catch colds and flus every year. But even a lockdown will require people being allowed to leave their homes to go food shopping .

All we can do is try to come up with solutions that practise the art of the possible, whilst also trying to mitigate the inevitable economic collapse (eg. people losing jobs, homes and having no money) and the subsequent social pushback.

We also have to factor in that even if eradicate C19 in our small corner of the world, it could continue to exist in Asia, Africa or America and boomerang back after we try to lift the lockdown.

Basically, the virus is going to eventually defeat all our best efforts and infect 70-80% of the world. We just have to try and slow it down at tactical times (informed by behavioural science and economics) so the NHS doesn't breakdown.

4 weeks would do nothing. Outbreak came from one person in China. After 4 months we are at 200,000 infected worldwide. You keep people locked for 4 weeks, chances are there will still be families where after those 4 weeks there's someone infected left, and we are back to square one. That's unless you lock everyone down individually, without any contact with anybody... then 4 weeks would be fine, provided you don't allow anyone to even go to hospital meaning everyone who is in bad condition dies. Any anyone who has any other condition in the meantime is dead as well.

There's no way out of this that doesn't involve millions dying.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

There’s a whole lot of bullshit on social media. I’m sure there will be a lockdown soon but it won’t be some sudden thing with no warning.

I think a French style lockdown will be announced by the end of the week.

 

[Dante]

4 weeks would do nothing. Outbreak came from one person in China. After 4 months we are at 200,000 infected worldwide. You keep people locked for 4 weeks, chances are there will still be families where after those 4 weeks there's someone infected left, and we are back to square one. That's unless you lock everyone down individually, without any contact with anybody... then 4 weeks would be fine, provided you don't allow anyone to even go to hospital meaning everyone who is in bad condition dies. Any anyone who has any other condition in the meantime is dead as well.

That's what I said in my second sentence.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The exact same army lockdown rumours were circulating in Ireland on whatsapp as soon as we started to implement social distancing measures. All complete nonsense, obviously. FFS don't share them.

 

[Sarni]

We are having less than 50 cases per day and our health system is already struggling. At 100 it will be close to collapse.

 

[Carolina Red]

Lombardy is using 1 million masks per day and accounts for about half the total cases in Italy.

Good lord

That said, if my wife went through 30+ yesterday by herself, I can totally see it.

 

[Fiskey]

For those in here defending China:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-scientists-destroyed-proof-of-virus-in-december-rz055qjnj

 

[fergieisold]

The exact same army lockdown rumours were circulating in Ireland on whatsapp as soon as we started to implement social distancing measures. All complete nonsense, obviously. FFS don't share them.

I don't see why we won't be going into lockdown soon though. Seems likely!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Glad to see we’re trying to emulate South Korea:

Coronavirus Ireland: Varadkar told that 15,000 tests a day can be carried out

TAOISEACH Leo Varadkar has been told that Irish health authorities should be able to carry out some 15,000 Coronavirus tests per day as efforts to battle the pandemic intensify.

On a visit to the National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL) in UCD on Wednesday, Mr Varadkar said that testing combined with social isolation were essential to combating the spread of the virus as had been shown in South Korea...

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ind...-tests-a-day-can-be-carried-out-39055060.html

I've been really impressed with our response so far. I know that frontline physicians are also full of praise for the HSE. Brand new CT scanners ordered and paid for within 24 hours of the request (which would usually take years to sort out) I didn't think we had it in us but it really does look as though we'll be one of the countries following best possible practice in trying to delay the spread of this fecking thing as much as possible.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't see why we won't be going into lockdown soon though. Seems likely!

It's definitely possible. Which is why no life, mouth breathing arseholes think it's hilarious to create these rumours on whatsapp/FB. The more plausible they are, the more they spread.

 

[TMDaines]

The BBC is essentially treating this as if we are at war.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

They can still provide work to the students or even do some online lessons but I know the latter is harder to implement. Obviously they need something to live on even though there are many who won't get anything (but they should)

Yeah i'm saying they should still get paid but should have to do something to earn it. No chance should they be getting one big holiday from this. They can be in marking, planning and looking after a tiny number of kids who have nowhere to go due to parents who are grafting in the hospitals etc.

 

[fergieisold]

For those in here defending China:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-scientists-destroyed-proof-of-virus-in-december-rz055qjnj

How can anyone defend china? They are a bunch of idiots!

 

[fergieisold]

It's definitely possible. Which is why no life, mouth breathing arseholes think it's hilarious to create these rumours on whatsapp/FB. The more plausible they are, the more they spread.

Yeh, there's only one paper reporting so far that I can see. and it's 'a source close to...' type report.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...wn-government-prepares-emergency-coronavirus/

 

[Carolina Red]

WaPo reported yesterday that there are already dozens of cases of Covid-19 among healthcare workers. The last thing we need is an already shortage stricken healthcare system hit hard by this.

SC is considering letting nursing students, retired nurses, and nurses from other states coming to the state and being granted temporary licenses. I've seen several other states do the same.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

So, my fiancée's ex-husband lives between Israel and the US. At present he is in Israel due to the virus. He wants my stepson to get in a plane to Israel at the weekend and stay until things blow over. We've pulled him out of college because he has asthma and we think the college's handling of some things has been quite stupid.

 

[2cents]

I've been really impressed with our response so far. I know that frontline physicians are also full of praise for the HSE. Brand new CT scanners ordered and paid for within 24 hours of the request (which would usually take years to sort out) I didn't think we had it in us but it really does look as though we'll be one of the countries following best possible practice in trying to delay the spread of this fecking thing as much as possible.

I hope so. We have a similar population to Singapore spread out over a much greater landmass. Weather aside, we should be able to cope in a similar way.

Last night my mother and sister both started showing symptoms, they’re now both booked in for tests at Croker tomorrow after talking to their GP today. They both got called within 30 minutes.

 

[Based Adnan]

Another U turn from our beloved PM I see. Reeks of cluelessness.

 

[One Night Only]

It's mental up north, our company is saying keep 2 meters apart from the guy you literally have to hand something to every minute, also share your break with him on a small table

Nothing seems to have changed round here so far, parents taking kids out of schools but then taking them to the local pub for their dinners.

Shops are a bit mad and bare.

Doesn't seem like anyone is staying home though, cars and people everywhere.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

WaPo reported yesterday that there are already dozens of cases of Covid-19 among healthcare workers. The last thing we need is an already shortage stricken healthcare system hit hard by this.

SC is considering letting nursing students, retired nurses, and nurses from other states coming to the state and being granted temporary licenses. I've seen several other states do the same.

I think like us here in the UK, your government are refusing to test frontline health staff.

I can only guess that if they know for certain that they have it, the reduction in manpower will be so great government is scared of the system collapsing already, and the panic leading to far worse than hoarding.

 

[One Night Only]

People using this to bash Boris and his cabinet or whatever it's called... Just feck off, half you can't decide which shampoo to buy, let alone make serious decisions. It's not the time to play "political smartarses".

 

[TMDaines]

No idea of the politics of Scott Morrison, but his speech to Australia last night was one of the best I've heard in levelling with the public on the severity of the situation and going through all the behaviour changes they need to make. I think the UK could do with a bit more firm direction in hindsight.

 

[Carolina Red]

I think like us here in the UK, your government are refusing to test frontline health staff.

I can only guess that if they know for certain that they have it, the reduction in manpower will be so great government is scared of the system collapsing already, and the panic leading to far worse than hoarding.

Yet they'll test NBA folks real quick apparently

 

[Utdstar01]

How far away do you think we are from enforcing closure of shops, pubs and clubs?

 

[Dante]

People using this to bash Boris and his cabinet or whatever it's called... Just feck off, half you can't decide which shampoo to buy, let alone make serious decisions. It's not the time to play "political smartarses".

Agreed. Whitty and Vallance would have been our CMO and CSA regardless of the political party leading the government.

Corbyn would have been following the same roadmap.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Yet they'll test NBA folks real quick apparently

There's a Harley Street doctor offering tests for £400 or so here, I assume thats where United and everyone is going, probably the same for you.

Always a way if you have the money.

 

[sullydnl]

Glad to see we’re trying to emulate South Korea:

Coronavirus Ireland: Varadkar told that 15,000 tests a day can be carried out

TAOISEACH Leo Varadkar has been told that Irish health authorities should be able to carry out some 15,000 Coronavirus tests per day as efforts to battle the pandemic intensify.

On a visit to the National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL) in UCD on Wednesday, Mr Varadkar said that testing combined with social isolation were essential to combating the spread of the virus as had been shown in South Korea...

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ind...-tests-a-day-can-be-carried-out-39055060.html

15,000 a day seem like an awful lot given the relatively small size of our population.

How much were South Korea testing per day?

 

[bond19821982]

It's mental up north, our company is saying keep 2 meters apart from the guy you literally have to hand something to every minute, also share your break with him on a small table

Nothing seems to have changed round here so far, parents taking kids out of schools but then taking them to the local pub for their dinners.

Shops are a bit mad and bare.

Doesn't seem like anyone is staying home though, cars and people everywhere.

Where up in North ?

 

[stepic]

Another U turn from our beloved PM I see. Reeks of cluelessness.

you seriously think this is just Boris calling all the shots? delusional.