I haven't read any analysis, but my hope has been that the nature of this recession will lend itself to a much quicker and different kind of recovery.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Fair enough. Being early thirties, I tend to think of there only being one major financial crisis of my lifetime (with this potentially being number 2)
They haven't as they're mostly not the ones who are actually, you know, dying from this.
Everyone is getting screwed, business owners who have put in decades of work, will end up with nothing. Zero hour contract workers with families to feed could have no money to buy food almost immediately. Part time workers, cleaners, plumbers, decorators, restaurant owners and all the support staff etc. all with an immediate halt to their income. Anything where you have to be physically present is in trouble.
The majority of the age range you're referring to, will be lucky enough to be living from a family home and forge a career in a world where this is a known quantity. Some are unable to retrain, unable to change
We'll all have to pay for it though, my 3 year old will probably end up paying towards it until retirement, which is terrifying.
No one is lucky here, but everyone is getting screwed by this virus no matter your age, some with far harsher consequences than others.
A french TV show played clips earlier of both Obama and Bush saying something like this was a huge potential threat and they had to be prepared.
Indeed- that's what I was saying.
Absolutely, the economy has been obliterated and they young will have to live with that longer than the old.
The young are going to be unlucky enough not to have secure job or their own home and we will be paying extortionate rents for the rest of our lives because of the decisions the government have taken.
Apparently most of the 1970s was a recession. We've improved at how we recover from them but they seem to happen with some degree of regularity and the only variances are the duration and intensity.
If I include my very earliest days there have been five major economic/financial crises in my 45 years.
It's heating up in my hospital now. Three of my A&E colleagues started to show symptoms of Covid19 mid-shift over this weekend, two were sent home while one was admitted for observation.
My ward patients, elderly folk, are starting to spike temperatures left right and center. If this was pre-Covid time, I wouldn't bat an eyelid and just investigate a source of a bacterial infection. Covid is on the mind, and suddenly I have to decide whether it's worth I isolate this person in a cubicle on the ward rather than a bay just because they've spiked a temperature. My old Orthopaedic wards have not turned into a HDU ward and an ITU ward.
It's scary what the effects of all this will be down the line. I think it's a matter of when, rather than if, a second peak will occur. I just can't see it being physically possible that this won't go on for many, many more months given how infectious this is.
My ward patients, elderly folk, are starting to spike temperatures left right and center. If this was pre-Covid time, I wouldn't bat an eyelid and just investigate a source of a bacterial infection. Covid is on the mind, and suddenly I have to decide whether it's worth I isolate this person in a cubicle on the ward rather than a bay just because they've spiked a temperature. My old Orthopaedic wards have not turned into a HDU ward and an ITU ward.
It's scary what the effects of all this will be down the line. I think it's a matter of when, rather than if, a second peak will occur. I just can't see it being physically possible that this won't go on for many, many more months given how infectious this is.
Yes, even when things seem to be under control, this virus is going to burn slowly through the ICUs and nursing homes in the western world. The small-ish nations in Northern and Eastern Europe with a population of 10 million and less, are good examples of this; dozens of them closed up a month ago with zero deaths and relatively few confirmed cases, but the death toll just keeps on rising despite not having overburdened hospitals. For the bigger nations (US, UK, Italy, Spain, France, etc), it will take a long, long time to push the daily death toll below 100.
Well, of course the young will have to live with it longer than the old. That's the nature of young and old.
Which age range has a secure job now? Rent was extortionate before this, nothing has changed there.
There have been lots of conversations in here about government delays, Sweden, South Korea, Germany and the like about what could and should have been done, but literally no one knows what the best course of action is, no one knows about reinfection rates, vaccines and immunity.
Everyone is getting a buttfecking here, let's not say it's easy on the oldies as they're not going to be around long enough to pay for it, when there's a bucket load of old people homes (and those at home alone) infected and will likely die because of it.
(I have no skin in the game with the over 70s)
I guess all I'm trying to emphasise here is that the younger of us, will have time to adapt, they'll have higher tax most likely, but tax has always been a bitch (boomers got mightily fecked on interest rates 30 odd years ago)
People in their 30s., 40s and 50s on the whole have more secure jobs than people in the teenage years and 20s. That's the nature of career progression, and just because rent is extortionate now does not mean that it can't get more extortionate in the future. As they almost certainly will.
Again the young being economically obliterated does mean that I think older age groups have it easy. They obviously don't.
Does it skew with your mind?
How about everyone?
https://www.who.int/influenza/preparedness/en/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...id-chiefs-warning-global-flu-pandemic-threat/
or more specific to the UK:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pandemic-influenza-response-plan
I don't understand this desire to let the people who could potentially have been responsible for hundreds to thousands of deaths off the hook without any kind of scrutiny.
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To add to this point @Josep Dowling
Also on your last point @do.ob some people just want to defend their team as best as they can.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article
So, according to a new research, Wuhan's R0 was not 3, but rather 5.7
So, according to a new research, Wuhan's R0 was not 3, but rather 5.7
Won't surprise me if New York City and Madrid, and to a lesser extent, London, have had R0 above 3 at some point, being probably the three major cities caught unaware, apart from Wuhan.
Which would put the HIT at 80-90% (assuming I got the relationship between Ro and HIT right). Which isn't good news.
Ah I see what you did there
Sucks for them, but the millennials as a generation will suffer the aftereffects of this the most.
Bush Jnr and Obama both made speeches about being prepared for a global pandemic.
Likewise ‘exercise Cygnus’ and ‘event 201’ were also very recent simulations for an unprecedented pandemic.
No conspiracy theorists in any of that.
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Sucks for them
I think perhaps looking after everyone as best we can might be the best idea.
And the best way to get everyone's lives back on track is suppressing the spread of this virus until we have treatments and a vaccine. That might allow for a gradual lessening of restrictions but exactly what that will look like is hard to know at this stage.
And Trump did disband the pandemic response team even if a few employees were retained in other divisions of the department. But the only false news is Republicans claiming that is wasn't disbanded, just streamlined. Or bullshit as those of us on planet earth call it.
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Today’s Trump press conference was next level batshit crazy delusion!!
Indeed, sucks for everyone.
Point still stands as to which demographic will, disproportionately, suffer the aftereffects of this, socially and economically.
Not sure that this means anything in terms of the medical response. You can't open up because mainly old people die of it. And many countries economic support measures support the younger demographics proportionally more.
Time for UBI?
Well, boomers might die easily. I think dying trumps socially and economically as suffering the effects of this pandemic
I wouldn't say he is a complete fraud, he wouldn't this reputed and this consulted if he was one. He's unconventional, basically a influencer.
Not that I intended for my original post to spawn some sort of trauma dick waving contest, but you can't be serious in equating the deaths of tens of thousands of people (some of which are old folks) with the socio-economic aftereffects of this virus and the response on an upcoming generation.
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I would agree with you and I am not trying to dick contest. But I expect millions of deaths in 1 year time. And without the confinement I would expect tens of millions Maybe for that reason, as you expect "only" tens of thousands, our judgments differ
So my quote was because I saw it like that:
tens of millions, maybe +100 million with no confinement and an economic recession anyway vs a few millions and a deeper recession
And you probably see it like
A few tens of thousands death vs a deep recession
If I would see it like you probably I would agree. But as I see it my way I think is the right thing to do right now
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This
Why does it? Why does it matter who will suffer the most? It’s impossible to figure that out because suffering will come in different forms. There’s elderly people, people my age and younger all suffering from health implications and financial.
All age groups will be hit hard. I’m starting to read more that this virus will become endemic and also carries the possibility of reinfection. Looks like we are all going to be living with this thing for a long time.
@Wibble ‘s bolded bit.
Will be interesting to see what happens in Spain and Italy now lockdown restrictions are being lifted.
Fingers crossed for them.
Fingers crossed for them.
I’d say the people who have died and their families are more greatly shafted. Be grateful that you have your health and pick up the pieces once the restrictions start to get lifted. The history of humanity has been punctuated by responses to setbacks. Shit happens, don’t wallow.
The vast majority of tube traffic in London is people commuting to work, not tourists and day trippers. It will be a major challenge to lifting restrictions in the city, along with widespread bus usage. Companies who have survived and even thrived during this work from home period should continue enabling their staff to do so for an indefinite period.
Bang on the money. There’s a few very entitled posts in this thread, as though only a very specific (young-ish) intersection of society is impacted by Covid-19 but everyone else is getting on swimmingly. Can’t be doing with that pity party bollocks.
We see it with everything now. Pisses me right off. Maybe I’m turning into a grumpy old git but even so ...
I'm worried about the future for my 21 year old son but I'm also worried about my ability to retire before I die and support him in the future as well. My job and my wife's seem secure at the moment so I know I'm very well off in comparison to most but still worrying times for all.
Indeed.
Maybe if the woe-is-us millennials bothered to vote in elections rather than just whinge about how unfair everything is, they’d be able to actually bring their influence to bear.
Preach!