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It serves no purpose but I like this graphic.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
It serves no purpose but I like this graphic.
US Intelligence report says China mislead the world on the severity of Covid-19 and hoarded supplies.
Not to mention that the mask will serve as a constant reminder to avoid touching your face.
In reality people touch their face more to adjust it.
Best explanation ever
Might be, but you'd have to be a moron to manage to stick your finger in your nose when adjusting a facemask or poke yourself in the eye while doing it.
You're right, and it's all hills here - there's no flat walking. It's been awful not being able to even walk for half a mile.
I was told you can go as far as you like under your own steam. Supposedly police will be leaving you alone if you are obviously exercising, which is how it was before. I'm also interested in whether you can go and sit in the parks for a couple of hours or not. They're reopening but nobody is sure what you can do there.
We don't have any specific rules here but smaller Comunes around us have banned non-residents. They're all isolated mountain villages and don't want people bringing the virus in. Fair enough, but it adds further to the confusion.
If all you're saying is that being a large, dense, international city increases the chances of the virus spreading, then I agree. This post seemed to go a bit further than that by saying that it is the explanatory factor for any differences observed across areas:
Maybe I read into it!
London has a similar population density to Amsterdam but has 2x as many cases proportionately, or 3x as many deaths. Does international travel and public transport explain that away? I'm not so sure. San Francisco has more than 10x fewer proportionate cases than New York, despite being the 5th biggest US city for public transport use, lots of international travel, and a dense area on its own (higher than e.g. London). There's lots of examples. Personally I think any kind of summary analysis is missing a big chunk of the story.
In any case, it does serve as a better summary assessment than the initial UK idea that Spain and Italy were suffering because of the cheek-kissing culture.
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Pompeo says that there is enormous evidence that the virus has originated in Wuhan’s lab. No idea if he is just playing to Trump’s tune, or something has changed since he dismissed the possibility.
I'd say they have nothing
Or at least only something that they think means something. No doubt just stirring up a bit of xenophobia to try to distract from how terrible he has been.
It might be only the initial lies and withholding of evidence and wetmarket origin, but China can blame them selves, not letting WHO conduct research on the origins of the virus, and not allowing any independent international review of Chinas response. My guess is this will become an eternal conspiracy theory, due to Chinas nonwillingness. They owe the world an explanation and they refuse, so any conspiracy theories is due to their own dictatorial behaviour.
Edit: just read that the report says that while China witheld information and toned down how dangerous the cirus was, they hoarded medical equipment and PPE at the same time.
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What are you talking about? Which informations have they withheld? And there is no evidence of a wetmarket origin, it's nearly impossible to prove it under the best circumstances, that's why we still don't now the exact origin of Ebola or things like Hantavirus, we know which regions at macro-level but that's it. US politicians are clearly responding to the conspiracies from the far right who seem to think that these labs were secret.
It's just headlines created for the thick who don't do details.
If history has taught us anything then whatever follows 'US Intelligence says' should be highly doubted. They'll will come up with anything to further their agenda and their population will lap it up.
Though it is known the China did not report the severity of the virus in the early months, the notion that they stockpiled on supplies is pretty weird to suggest given that major countries would've figured that out before as imports from them were dropping.I think this is just diversionary to suggest the US couldn't get supplied earlier, like many people rightfully blame them for, because China wasn't supplying them.
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Which is what ... 60% of the US population?
The bible alludes to enormous evidence of Jesus and God but nobody has ever seen him.
I call bullshit.
If any American GOP person told me it was raining outside I'd look for myself.
I wish social media didnt exist so I dont have to hear about the stupid cnuts day in and day out.
You can go even more detailed than that. It's now thought the Atalanta v Valencia game on 19th February is the spark that created the storm in Italy and Spain. Bergamo (Atalanta's hometown) is a big Milan commuter town and quickly became the worst affected place in Europe after that, and the virus travelled back to Spain with the Valencia team and it's fans.
Same thing is speculated to have happened in Liverpool with the Madrid game.
I wonder if we can eventually trace back to specific events in those other cities.
Is anyone else kinda scared how easily freedoms were taken away from people? Of course it’s the right thing to beat this virus now, but it gives me an uneasy feeling how very fragile our ‘freedoms’ really are.
Yes, it suits the orange one's current narrative about China not wanting him to get a second term.
I hope you and your wife are OK. It seems like a shambolic system, quite honestly.
Not at all, people have largely done whatever they have wanted. Everything has been voluntary for the most part.
In the UK people are still going for picnics and cycling in groups and whatever else they fancy. In America people are going out to protest in large groups about the fact they’re not allowed to congregate in large groups and they’re getting no push back from the law.
People still have their liberties and ultimately it’s people using their liberties, deciding to follow expert advice and stay at home.
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My favourite tweet of the day, who needs alternative positions in science!
Not really. It's actually encouraging people are willing to temporarily sacrifice their freedom and habits to help others. I thought this was more common in Asian countries but it appears that Europeans can do that well too.
What is your problem? Is it hard to read? Did the chinese authorities go after their own doctors for fun when they tred to warn people? 8 doctors was prosecuted in december. There are Chinese studies that showed there is high propability that the virus originated in the wetmarket. The wetmarket in Wuhan was closed 1.January due to 40 cases coming from there. Is it far-right movement to doubt China now? Like they are so holy and fair to the world? You must be kidding me. Wake up. I don't trust the US, I do not trust Russia, and I do not trust CHINA. I am not basing my thoughts here on just the US report, I have not read it all neither, since most of it is old news.
China got their first cases early december. Local authorities hid symptoms in data system. Doctors warned of disease in december, were arrested. 2. january National TV tells of the 8 doctors punished for rumour spreading. 14.January Chinas health dept. director warns internally that they could be facing a pandemic with human to human transmission. 15.January. Same person now says no human to human transmission. 5-17 January, no new cases! Later there was disclosed there was 3000 cases in this time period. 20. jan Jinping warns chinese, says transfer between humans.
Also of course things are hard to prove, when no one is allowed to investigate. It is like with the downed airplane in Iran and other similar stories. Authoritan governments wants to control the truth so their truth can be told.
But hey, anyone disagreeing with you are propably extremists...
The type of individual freedom a lot of people think they have is an illusion and always has been. Sure, you have a range of things you're allowed to do but if you choose to live within a society then these liberties are tightly constrained so society is functional and others around you do not suffer as a consequence. People may think that they choose willingly to follow these constraints but each one of us has been moulded by the society we live in to follow, and accept these rules. People are not truly independent but rely on millions of people and thousand of systems all around them for their lives and society to continue. When something threatens those systems and therefore our way of life then (very) minor alterations have to be made, which is what is happening now. People are mostly upset because things have changed or an illusion has been shattered, not because they are no longer "free". For autonomy you gotta do a cabin in a woods kind of thing.
You say voluntarily, which it technically is. But the large proportion of public is of course taking the advice not to do your normal ‘freedoms’. Going out once a day only, not seeing friends, but seeing family, not visiting other places. That is unquestionably a loss of freedom and regardless of the good reasons for it is scary to me how easily it has been lost
Not at all. Like with a lot of things, people in the UK think they're being massively controlled, when the reality is that it's nowhere near as strong as the rest of Europe. From what I've heard from friends in Italy and Spain, people have only just been allowed to start going out to have some exercise, and kids have just been allowed to go out with their parents for a walk. Also having to fill out forms and being constantly requested by authorities to show documents and proof you are heading somewhere serious etc.
Whereas in the UK, we can stay out all day if we really want to. Seen plenty of police around when I've been walking to the shop etc. and never been questioned about where I'm heading to.
Then these groups of scumbags hanging around with each other have the cheek to speak back to the police when questioned, and make it out like their freedom is being taken away from them?! They can go and do one...
Unfortunately a few people ruin it for the rest of us. If people here could actually listen to advice and be smart about reducing the risk of infecting others, there wouldn't need to be fines handed out etc. But I reckon as soon as the government announce that lockdown will be easing, people are going to take advantage of the situation and we'll end up at square one again. We can't have nice things.
Belgian numbers of infections and deaths keep dropping massively. Excellent news.
No. You have hundreds of freedoms taken away already. You're not free to keep all your money, you're taxed, you're not free to drive your car as fast as you like or park it wherever you feel like, and you're not free to libel anyone or punch them in the mouth. We manage these restrictions through democracy, it's the best way we've come up with so far.
I agree with the others that it is encouraging to see that it is the people who are prepared to forego their freedoms for the greater good. It has brought us together as a people.
If anything it has made me realise how much I appreciate our freedoms and that our system of government isn't authoritarian like China.
Short answer: no
I do agree it’s encouraging seeing people want to do something for the greater good.
I also will value a lot more what freedoms we do have post this as they aren’t always guaranteed to be there as this pandemic proves
Wow ok. So you don’t look at this whole situation and go ‘ huh- my freedoms weren’t as absolute as I thought’ ok fair enough
Where did you have absolute freedoms, what situations?
Not absolute but to:
Go out more than once a day
See friends
See family
Visit other places and not just your own city
Travel on holiday
Are you seriously telling me you don’t feel a lack of freedoms right now? Did you ever leave the house before this?
I don't view it as an authority stopping me from doing these things. I view it as a potentially lethal and hugely contagious virus temporarily stopping me from doing those things.
I don’t think you get my point. Of course it’s the right thing to do for this situation & everyone knows that.
It’s the question itself of how easy regardless of the very good reasons for it that those freedoms have gone. And it is an authority telling you to do that- the government with police being able to enforce it.
Stockholm Region press conference from this morning.
Positive Patient Numbers in Stockholm
New statistics from Stockholm Hospitals show that we are seeing the start of a decline. Week 15 the total deaths were 181, for week 16 the number dropped to 135 and for week 17 the total was down to 107.
Even when it comes covid-19- patients that require hospital care, the curve is going in the right direction. At the peak, the total patients with Coronavirus was over 1100, but now the number is down to 955.
The same when it comes to ICU, where the curve has been flat under a long period and is now heading downwards. At it’s highest the total was up at 230 patients but now the figure has dropped to 193.
Lots and lots of warnings now at the end of the press conference that this is not over by a long shot, this will be months and months doing what we have been doing since mid-March to keep the curve down and reduce it even more.
Positive Patient Numbers in Stockholm
New statistics from Stockholm Hospitals show that we are seeing the start of a decline. Week 15 the total deaths were 181, for week 16 the number dropped to 135 and for week 17 the total was down to 107.
Even when it comes covid-19- patients that require hospital care, the curve is going in the right direction. At the peak, the total patients with Coronavirus was over 1100, but now the number is down to 955.
The same when it comes to ICU, where the curve has been flat under a long period and is now heading downwards. At it’s highest the total was up at 230 patients but now the figure has dropped to 193.
Lots and lots of warnings now at the end of the press conference that this is not over by a long shot, this will be months and months doing what we have been doing since mid-March to keep the curve down and reduce it even more.