Cavani gets 3 match ban from FA for his social media post

[Zlatan 7]

Aye, from what I've read that's right.

The problem (as far as I can tell) is that even though it's a word that is used in that context, it's still derived from a base meaning that references skin colour. And that's enough for it to be a problem as far as the FA are concerned, who don't want players addressing others in terms that reference skin colour in any context. Because as far as they're concerned the key isn't who it was addressed to, it's that it was done so on a public forum that falls under their guidelines.

Though a Uruguayan poster in the other thread said it's a word you'd use with friends rather than people you don't really know, so I'm not sure "pal" or "buddy" are the exact equivalent either.

Plus what the white guys in Uruguay think is acceptable isn't necessarily what everyone in Uruguay thinks is acceptable, even if they're the overwhelming majority. Or maybe it is. Fecked if I know, really. Discerning the nuances of a different language and culture are beyond my little brain.

Ultimately the FA set the rules though so it's what they think is acceptable that counts. Players just have to accept that and adjust the language they use online. Sucks for Cavani (who obviously had no ill intent) but hopefully players will be more aware (and be made more aware by their clubs) of the rules from now on.

Is that word really derived from the base meaning of skin colour or just the actual colour? I don’t know and to be honest I doubt the FA do.
To me it seems that Cavani used a word in his native language with no question of race intended and more a term of indearment to a white friend, that word sounds awfully similar to a banned word here and can, can be used in the same line of thought maybe.

players being made aware of how words in their language may appear in the English language I agree but I don’t think their language needs to be stamped out or I don’t think they should be charged with racism or misconduct or whatever term they want to use for a totally non racist non harmful or intentionally hurtful comment

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Referring to race...

The terms "negro" and "negrito" ("negra" and "negrita" being the female forms) clearly do not refer to "race" in any meaningful sense in contemporary usage, though.

A man may call his girlfriend "negrita" even though both persons share the same skin colour (shade, tone, whatever) - because her hair is dark, say. Or a shade darker than someone else's. Or because she has dark brown eyes - who knows. Perhaps even for no good reason whatsoever - the usage seems almost random at times.

Etymologically, however, these terms seem to be more problematic. The origin of "negrito"/"negrita" seems to have something to do with "race" (whatever that is).

But - really - is it the FA's business to purge the Spanish language of terms with may or may not be problematic with regard to their origins?

 

[Sarni]

The good old days when John Terry could racially offend Anton Ferdinand and it was Anton Ferdinand getting booed for having the cheek to be racially abused by John Terry.

 

[meamth]

Yes. I did. I'm not English and I think it is racist. The fact that they use it in their speech as a term of endearment doesn't change that fact to me. Just shows that some nations are stuck in the past.

But when black mates throwing around N-word for fun it's cool and fun.

It's in their culture, they are mates, where is the racism? Isn't racism meant to discriminate and despise?

 

[Adam-Utd]

FPL made me change my team name because it was "ForFuchsake" said it was inappropriate or some crap.

wow I guess they have no sense of humour after all

 

[Son]

This is just ridiculous. He should have got a slap on the wrist and told “look this is how it can be perceived here... Don’t dare do it again and just delete the post and apologise.” Then done.

Childish behaviour really to drag it out like this. On the whole it’s not a massive issue at all and the guy learnt a lesson. Needed no more action since he knows now.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Player X's wife posts: "You go, hubby!" after he scores an important goal on the road.

Player X responds: "Thanks, negrita - see you on Monday."

Oops. Three game ban. Can't have that.

I mean, come the feck on. This is ridiculous and has very little to do with fighting racism in football.

 

[Renegade]

But when black mates throwing around N-word for fun it's cool and fun.

It's in their culture, they are mates, where is the racism? Isn't racism meant to discriminate and despise?

I’m sure if Rashford referred to Martial with the n word with the “A” rather than the “er” then he would be looking at a similar charge if not worse.

 

[monosierra]

I'm in the Do as Romans do camp but this is clearly an opportunity for understanding between cultures. There is no intent to slur in this case, I'm pretty sure. Does the term have an unintentional effect? Yes, it does, considering the English context. Between the lack of intent and the unintended offence, I think Cavani should not be punished but will do well to explain and apologize for any offences caused - which I believe he did so. Given the semantic similarities ("Black") of the word but the difference in cultural application, misunderstandings are understandable. This is a less egregious case of bullying foreigners than the one involving "nei-ge" as a Chinese filler word and being blasted due to its sounding (Zero semantic connection) to the N-word in the US.

 

[krautrøck]

I dont agree.

A little serf girl would have absolutely no say however the Sheriff of Nottingham treated her.

Oliver twist

I honestly have no idea what moment in history you could possibly be referring to where the masses had more power than they do now.

Celebrities getting called out for Bullying. When would that have happened in the past?

Why are you talking about "power"? The original point was about "voice"?

To end my say here, I'll phrase it like this:

Voice by the offended in power is structural (The example I gave for this are white christians in Europe, dominating the discourse of what is acceptable/normal behaviour for centuries. of course within this group there are also relative power struggles and dynamics at work.)

Voice by the offended out of power is sporadic (The girl in a poor village could be an example of this. Even if she somehow has one of her opinions about a celebrity multiplied, she is still unlikely to fundamentally change the way the "Sheriff of Nottingham" treats her.)

By the way, I always appreciate to read a bit of Dickens

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yes. I did. I'm not English and I think it is racist. The fact that they use it in their speech as a term of endearment doesn't change that fact to me. Just shows that some nations are stuck in the past.

Negrito means little black friend in the context they are using it - how can that be racist?

It's not racist to call a white person white, or a black person black as long as you aren't using it in a harmful or derogatory way.

Clearly Cavani was not using it in that way and meaning it in a positive, thankful reply. If the FA can't understand context then that's their issue.

They should have issued a strong warning and understood that while it could have been seen as racist - it wasn't. That would deter people from using it again.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Yes. I did. I'm not English and I think it is racist. The fact that they use it in their speech as a term of endearment doesn't change that fact to me. Just shows that some nations are stuck in the past.

Yes, and The Empire should send out soldiers to civilize the world, just like good ol' times.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Best person to ask is his mate, and you know what he's going to say. I read some of the posts above, and like them, probably hispanics, my grandmother referred to my grandfather as "negro" (pronounced in spanish as neh grow) and it just refers to his having dark hair.

 

[rcoobc]

By the way, I always appreciate to read a bit of Dickens

I think our disagreement stems from..

I am saying that the offended have never before had a voice

You are saying that those with a voice have always been offended

Dickens is good

 

[GameOn]

Absolutely fecking ridiculous.

At this point saying anything remotely connected to sex or race on social media or in interviews - no matter how innocent it is or what it actually means in your native language - can be considered a "high risk activity". Idiotic organizations like the FA and other "woke groups" will hunt you down.

Insanity.

 

[2 man midfield]

Absolutely fecking ridiculous.

At this point saying anything remotely connected to sex or race on social media or in interviews - no matter how innocent or what it actually means in your native language - can be considered a "high risk activity". Idiotic organizations like the FA and other "woke groups" will hunt you down.

Insanity.

Wouldn’t even say the fa are that woke tbh. To me it seems like they’re doing things like this and implementing taking the knee etc because it seems like to the sort of thing they should be doing, not because they’ve actually put any thought into it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Feck you FA, you are the ones that need cultural education

 

[JPRouve]

Wouldn’t even say the fa are that woke tbh. To me it seems like they’re doing things like this and implementing taking the knee etc because it seems like to the sort of thing they should be doing, not because they’ve actually put any thought into it.

I could be wrong but it's the players that decided to take a knee and they are entitled to take that decision.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Negrito means little black friend in the context they are using it...

No, no, no.

It does not.

That's the point. That's why Spanish speakers find it so ridiculous when people associate the contemporary usage of the terms "negrito"/"negrita" with racism.

It doesn't mean "little black friend" as an idiomatic expression. The meaning - depending on who exactly it refers to - is much more likely to be "honey", "darling", "mate" or "buddy".

It wouldn't occur to a contemporary speaker that using "negrita/o", referring to his or her friend, brother, sister, husband, wife...or whatever could be possibly construed negatively (much less as a racist term).

The origin is problematic - yes. According to scholars, you might say. And so forth. But - again - is it the business of the FA to deconstruct and analyze the contemporary usage of an extremely widespread term, and outlaw it (treat it as a racist term) based on its (possible ) historical origin?

 

[Jordan_mufc]

Yes, and The Empire should send out soldiers to civilize the world, just like good ol' times.

It does stink of this.

I mean can we really tell another culture what is deemed as offensive and what isn't. If he had said it in English then maybe people would have a case. But he's used the word in his native language.

PS: It's not even remotely close to what Suarez said to Evra. Read "The FA vs Suarez for clarification".

 

[GameOn]

Wouldn’t even say the fa are that woke tbh. To me it seems like they’re doing things like this and implementing taking the knee etc because it seems like to the sort of thing they should be doing, not because they’ve actually put any thought into it.

100% agreed, that's what I actually meant. I just worded it in a confusing way.

 

[The Firestarter]

I’m sure if Rashford referred to Martial with the n word with the “A” rather than the “er” then he would be looking at a similar charge if not worse.

You got those two words mixed up. The -er is the historically derogative term.

 

[Sky1981]

Would you call that type of "buddy", "brother" or "bro" to a white person? And why are then locals speaking out that it's high time such terms are being dropped?

He was replying to a white (not black) person

 

[Withnail]

Wouldn’t even say the fa are that woke tbh. To me it seems like they’re doing things like this and implementing taking the knee etc because it seems like to the sort of thing they should be doing, not because they’ve actually put any thought into it.

Taking the knee was a player-driven initiative. Deeney was involved in approaching the authorities about it iirc.

 

[ChaddyP]

"Buddy", "Brother" or "Bro".

Where I come from buddy is crass word for penis. I'm reporting this post.

 

[GMoore23]

It seemed likely; even though it's completely ridiculous.

This now means that the FA is the jurisdiction for how Spanish speaking people use their native language.

3 Match ban just in time for Christmas. Crazy.

Isn't this now racist on the FA's part. Cavani should sue.

 

[90 + 5min]

Yes, and The Empire should send out soldiers to civilize the world, just like good ol' times.

It does stink of this.

I mean can we really tell another culture what is deemed as offensive and what isn't. If he had said it in English then maybe people would have a case. But he's used the word in his native language.

PS: It's not even remotely close to what Suarez said to Evra. Read "The FA vs Suarez for clarification".

We are already doing it by telling world what "real democracy" should be... But only in countries where there is interest in something.

As I said, expected. But this is almost cultural racism.

 

[GazTheLegend]

They've not said it's racist.

They have. He was charged with "aggravated use of language" instead of the smaller potential charge.

 

[Renegade]

You got those two words mixed up. The -er is the historically derogative term.

I know yeah. My point is both I’d both would result in serious charge regardless if the person finds it derogatory or not.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Ban him for life and dock some points from us. It's the only right way to fight against racism. Hopefully justice prevails.

 

[Smores]

They are absolutely judging Cavani's character by claiming that he put the game in disrepute, that's literally what they did. And they should look at the context because the language of the rule is "insulting, abusive or improper" which are all context based notions. I'm not telling you that you can use that term in all circumstances, I'm telling you that he used it in a context that was neither of these things, i will also add that in that context it doesn't refer to a skin color or ethnicity, so the aggravated qualification is also iffy.

No they're not they're judging his actions not character. Cavani has made a comment without any intention that doesn't mean it's not breaking a rule, intent isn't relevant apart from heightening the charge like the Suarez case.

You've said yourself that some find it's usage offensive so I'm not sure exactly what is contextual. Do you think it's fine as long as it's not said to those people because that's not really how that works is it? If i publically use language that's slightly homophobic these days but it's said in jest to a mate that's still offensive to others.

Some of you are acting like it's a criminal case. The FA simply don't want this language used by players in it's league whilst on social media. that's for them to decide. Players can find other terms of endearment or face punishment.

 

[JPRouve]

No they're not they're judging his actions not character. Cavani has made a comment without any intention that doesn't mean it's not breaking a rule, intent isn't relevant apart from heightening the charge like the Suarez case.

You've said yourself that some find it's usage offensive so I'm not sure exactly what is contextual. Do you think it's fine as long as it's not said to those people because that's not really how that works is it? If i publically use language that's slightly homophobic these days but it's said in jest to a mate that's still offensive to others.

Some of you are acting like it's a criminal case. The FA simply don't want this language used by players in it's league whilst on social media. that's for them to decide. Players can find other terms of endearment or face punishment.

And I'm questioning the rule and their own interpretation of it.

 

[shaky]

More cultural imperialism from the English speaking part of the world. We'll teach them foreigners how to behave and speak, and stick an anti-racism tag on it to give it some false legitimacy.

 

[MackRobinson]

yes lets not worry about the humans in slave camps, when Cavani possibly hurt some people feelings

The two are connected mate, if football as a whole had any spine they would go after the real racism of exploiting slaves to produce their profits but as of now clubs and players are ones profiting since nike / qatar / UAE can send over a nice pay packet so they dont address REAL racism and we can continue to go after meaningless perpetrators so they can be seen as doing something.

Say no to racism as long as it doesnt negatively affect our profits.

Worker's rights have little to do with policing racially offensive speech. Pretty blatant false moral equivalence tbh. I mean it's not even the FA or one of its employees you're comparing. It's a sponsor.

 

[2mufc0]

More cultural imperialism from the English speaking part of the world. We'll teach them foreigners how to behave and speak, and stick an anti-racism tag on it to give it some false legitimacy.

Like the Spanish speaking world are not imperialist.

Get a grip, it's not that deep.

 

[lex talionis]

An asinine decision by the FA...so be it.

Let’s rewind the clock a bit. Whatever the FA’s written policy on the use of language that calls attention to one’s race, does the FA provide any kind of training or education to players who join clubs who are members of the FA?

If not, there’s a problem right there. If so, did the FA provide these educational materials to Cavani? If it did, as asinine as the application of this rule is, it is what it is and footballers have to adhere to it.

Still, this is a case of applying the rule in a way that’s clearly contrary to the spirit of the rule. The FA gets a yellow card from me on this occasion.

 

[christinaa]

Ridiculous by the FA !

 

[MackRobinson]

I said among african americans, I'm not talking about the term being used outside of it and I'm highlighting the fact that people being against a term doesn't mean that every context is negative. And it's important to keep in mind that it's the insulting, abusive or improper part that creates the infraction the race and skin color part is what creates the aggravated qualification which is why the FA is totally wrong. Mentioning the race or skin color isn't why he is punished, he is punished because it was deemed insulting, abusive or improper and put the game in disrepute.

The way they applied the rule here is very strange because now they have to sanction anyone that uses any term that can regardless of context be interpreted as an insult, abusive or improper. Good luck to the FA.

Policing these words would be simpler if the offended always felt this way, but its usually not the case. If white person says "nigga" while singing a song, it is still seen as offensive to AAs in the states despite the intent. Personally, I don't find "negrito" or "negro" offensive, but many others do regardless of the context. This is why the FA had to sanction Cavani.

 

[2 man midfield]

I could be wrong but it's the players that decided to take a knee and they are entitled to take that decision.

Taking the knee was a player-driven initiative. Deeney was involved in approaching the authorities about it iirc.

I think that’s right, which reinforces my point. It wasn’t the FA’s idea, they’re not a ‘woke’ organisation doing things to actually tackle racism in any constructive way. They just agreed to go along with it. I’m not saying they should be criticised for that though, it’s a good thing. But it does make you wonder whether or not they actually know what they’re doing, or whether they want to give the impression that they do. The Cavani charge seems to suggest the latter to me.

 

[MackRobinson]

The terms "negro" and "negrito" ("negra" and "negrita" being the female forms) clearly do not refer to "race" in any meaningful sense in contemporary usage, though.

A man may call his girlfriend "negrita" even though both persons share the same skin colour (shade, tone, whatever) - because her hair is dark, say. Or a shade darker than someone else's. Or because she has dark brown eyes - who knows. Perhaps even for no good reason whatsoever - the usage seems almost random at times.

Etymologically, however, these terms seem to be more problematic. The origin of "negrito"/"negrita" seems to have something to do with "race" (whatever that is).

But - really - is it the FA's business to purge the Spanish language of terms with may or may not be problematic with regard to their origins?

Negrito usually refers to race when directed towards a person with darker skin. I've never felt the intent was malicious, but it's crazy to think my skin wasn't the reason. I dated a woman from Argentina, so I get it. Hell, in her city they would sometimes jokingly refer to black people as "grone" (syllables switched)

The FA is a British entity whos laws are written in English. You might have an argument if this were the Uruguayan FA.