Yeah, I'm a pretty dumb guy, so don't even try to elaborate, as I wouldn't get it anyway. I'll just refrain from voicing my opinion in the future, thank you for your subtle hint
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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This fella is out of his depth but only because he has a shite squad and he has no experience and cant do the job.,
I kind of feel bad for him, he seems like he totally lost it. I dont think he will turn this around.
Why a journalist would come out with such a hot, bitter-sounding take that could easily make him look foolish in double-quick time is a mystery. Then again I suppose if you can't get people sharing your stuff because it's actually good you may as well have everyone retweeting you to call you a twat. A click is still a click.
Arteta sort of reminds me of when Moyes was our manager. Every fan of said club can see that he's a disaster, fans of rival clubs love him being in charge because he's a disaster, and yet the media seem to have decided that literally nothing is his fault and make every excuse under the sun for him and defend him. Such a weird thing.
That being said, a lot of United fans really seem to have a serious chip on their shoulder with respect to him. And Bielsa. And Pep. And Nagelsmann. And pretty much any manager outside of United that get any sort of posivity.
That being said, a lot of United fans really seem to have a serious chip on their shoulder with respect to him. And Bielsa. And Pep. And Nagelsmann. And pretty much any manager outside of United that get any sort of posivity.
This guy is a journalist and he can't even fecking write a coherent sentence.
" There's no sign of any change on Arsenal's Arteta position but inherent to that is a dilemma. With that squad, they either dispense or fully double-down and back him. The problem, when there's no previous experience, there are no guarantees they'd be backing the right man."
I have never heard a native English speaker write like this... "inherent to" what? Does he even know what inherent means?
Never mind his complete lack of insight - "they either get rid of him or back him". Well I guess the third option would be to do neither, although what that would entail is unclear. He caps it all with "there are not guarantees they'd be backing the right man" which is the most banal and contrived dilemma I've ever heard.
"But it looks like he's really struggling in current situation, which is the entire problem with appointing a total novice"
Sorry, what exactly is he suggesting is the entire problem with appointing a novice? The fact that he is struggling right now. Doesn't even make logical sense. "Arteta is having a really tough time right now, that's the whole problem with hiring a novice"... what?!
Basically, we have someone with very little insight about football, very little writing ability, and is so insecure needs to wrap his "I made a prediction which is being shown to be very wrong" under layers of pseudo-analysis.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for Utd fans to be annoyed at how Arteta has been treated compared to Ole.
Some of the ludicrous overreaction to Arsenal winning the Cup or beating us last month from sections of the media, evidence you can see in this thread, was mental. Ian Wright claimed if Arteta had our squad he'd win the title for feck sake. Miguel Delaney was talking about how great Arteta was and how nobody in football respects Ole. That's incredibly unprofessional and snide.
We're 12 points ahead of them with a game in hand. So I think it's fair enough for utd fans to remind these idiots of the shit they were saying only a month ago.
Let's be honest, it's the equivalent of making Michael Carrick their manager isn't it?
No disrespect to Carrick, on paper he's actually a better candidate, multiple PL winner, CL winner, 10 years as a key player for an elite side.
Where as Areteta's most significant qualification seems to be a couple of years as Guardiolas assistant.
No disrespect to Carrick, on paper he's actually a better candidate, multiple PL winner, CL winner, 10 years as a key player for an elite side.
Where as Areteta's most significant qualification seems to be a couple of years as Guardiolas assistant.
This seems a little over the top, why do you so aggressively hate Delaney? I don't think he's amazing but this seems way over the top. I think it's good he acknowledges he probably got it wrong, and syntax issues notwithstanding, I didn't see anything else wrong with what he said...
You don't know (the bolded part) to be true. It is just how you feel. Ole has (in Norway) lead a club to the league title who didn't win it before him so it isn't completely unfounded that he wouldn't face relegation with the Arsenal squad.That's just what you get with these amateur managers most of the time. Though I have to admit, when the flurry of ex-players with no considerable pedigree (OGS, Arteta, Lampard) in managerial positions first occurred, my money was on Lampard to be the most ridiculous of the bunch, maybe because of the media love-in around Arteta.
Realistically though, just look at Arsenal's squad, it's just a shambles, really. Give Ole that squad and he faces relegation as well, as does Frank. Give Arteta Man Utd + about 250m and I could see him be in the run for Top 4. True, Arteta's man management did him no favours but i struggle to see the manager who would realistically do better than him with this bunch of midtable players and a misfiring top striker. Klopp maybe. Pep? No way, as he wouldn't even join them with that squad.
Arteta brings pretty much the same problems we are facing with Ole, he tries to emulate Pep (+ maybe Wenger and *shudder* Moyes?) while being nowhere near ability-wise, same as Ole with SAF. And of course they do, as they have little experience on this level themselves, they need someone they worked with for orientation. It just doesn't work like that. From that point of view, maybe Frank has the potential to be the best of the bunch after all, as he had soo many top managers to learn from, with different strenghts and weaknesses.
Make no mistake, the main differential between Arteta, Ole and Lampard are their respective squads, so don't laugh too loud at Arsenal, it could happen to us as well
Also, what tells you that Arteta will use the $250 million wisely and get us to fourth? Arteta has made horrendous choices in his starting line-ups and is more focused on how he wants to play than what he wants to get out of the team. He has ostracized Oil even when the team is in free-fall. They are literally paying for a player who isn't even registered in the PL. I do see him doing the same things with a better squad and underperforming (not to the same degree though).
Also, the second bolded statement isn't true at all. Life isn't a football manager game. Ole had lots to do to set us in the right direction when he came in. Motivation wise, the team was completely shot. He brought back the mojo in the team and the stability that comes with it. The results came immediately. Your point seems to be that talent of the players is the only determinant of results. It simply isn't true. Football isn't played on paper.
That's BS.
United fans give a lot of credit to Klopp, Hassenhuttl for example.
Arteta getting a free pass from the media for months needs to be called out. Most of the media had a hard-on for Spanish Moyes a month back and had multiple articles on how Ole was out of his depth just a month back.
Personally it doesn't bother me, since I really don't care a great deal about what the media writes. The media have never really been positive about anything United related, even when Sir Alex was manager and we were the best team in the world, the stories were always there about the dynasty collapsing, so it doesn't really bother me. That and I don't have any great affinity for Ole as our manager, so it's not like I feel offended on his behalf or anything like that.
That's the difference isn't it?
Ole came in, first thing he talked about is fitness level. We shouldn't be running less than the opposition.
Arteta came in, he wants his philosophy implemented first.
Quite the contrast.
Klopp I agree with. There are tons of people calling Hassenhuttl a hipster manager, just like they call Nagelsmann etc.
To be fair, technically that usage of 'inherent to' is fine. It refers back to 'There's no sign of any change'. AKA "Inherent to/within Arsenal's indecision is a dilemma:"
From there, however, to really justify its use, one would want to follow up with something that most readers would agree is 'inherent' to that dilemma.
That's fine if it doesn't bother you but you've had it explained to you why it matters to others.
I'll always have affection for Ole and seeing him being disrespected by the media whilst at the same time they lavish praise on Arteta is ridiculous.
In fact it's not even really about Ole so much, its about how laughably bold they all were in declaring Arteta an elite level manager and how they're now in the relegation zone in terms of form. Those idiots deserve to be mocked
Now thats funny, regarding Klopp there is no choice right now.
Yeah, that transparent hypocrisy is what annoys me.
Just look at this, apparently, the best quality to look for to be a good manager is his body language and how he talks well.
Simon Jordan is an absolute clown and one of the last people I’d go to for advice when hiring managers.
Fair enough - it reads as if he's trying to be too clever, but I might have that wrong and I admit I am not that well-read so it could be a usage of the phrase that went over my head. Apologies, Miguel (although if you are reading this, then Christ I hope my post is easier to read than your articles are!)
I mean I pointed out exactly the two instances of terrible writing that I objected to, what bit do you want further explaining? He is the head writer of a national newspaper. I don't aggressively hate anyone, get a grip on yourself
I’ll retract what I said about him being insecure since I don’t know him. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. He writes like he is - he doesn’t actually acknowledge that he might have got it wrong, like you suggest.
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Agree a lot with your post.
now, they are in a really poor run which is much worse than our worst period under Ole. They are in the real danger to drift to the relegation zone. In their game against Everton, some players seemed not fighting for the manager really. That’s a big difference as compared with us during our bad period (remember how Fred and McT did in those games).
Personally, I feel new generation managers should be given more patience especially during COVID-19 period, such as pirlo, Ole, arteta, and so on. But I guess arsenal cannot have that patience too long because it is getting closer to the immediate danger with each game.
Ole can get the result every time when the ole-out train is in full speed. We have not yet seen it from arteta. Let’s see how it pans out eventually. Doesn’t look good really for him.
Right. Just like Fergie got lucky with Cantona and who knows where Fergie would be without Eric coming to the club.
Fyi. Ty thinks Fergie cheated his way into winning all the silverware. The Scousers think Fergie was the luckiest manager ever.
His original point was that Arteta's set-up was very good which is why he deserved all the plaudits, while no one with any football knowledge respected Ole. That last bit is staggeringly unprofessional, and he deserves to be pilloried for it.
He hasn't gone back on either of those things. In fact, he appears to be doing everything in his power to avoid going back on them, instead opting to deflect.
Nope. The potential was certainly there for Ole to do an Arteta with the squad he inherited. Lest we forget, Arsenal actually finished above us in the 2018/19 season and then went on to spend £100m+ the very next summer.That's just what you get with these amateur managers most of the time. Though I have to admit, when the flurry of ex-players with no considerable pedigree (OGS, Arteta, Lampard) in managerial positions first occurred, my money was on Lampard to be the most ridiculous of the bunch, maybe because of the media love-in around Arteta.
Realistically though, just look at Arsenal's squad, it's just a shambles, really. Give Ole that squad and he faces relegation as well, as does Frank. Give Arteta Man Utd + about 250m and I could see him be in the run for Top 4. True, Arteta's man management did him no favours but i struggle to see the manager who would realistically do better than him with this bunch of midtable players and a misfiring top striker. Klopp maybe. Pep? No way, as he wouldn't even join them with that squad.
Arteta brings pretty much the same problems we are facing with Ole, he tries to emulate Pep (+ maybe Wenger and *shudder* Moyes?) while being nowhere near ability-wise, same as Ole with SAF. And of course they do, as they have little experience on this level themselves, they need someone they worked with for orientation. It just doesn't work like that. From that point of view, maybe Frank has the potential to be the best of the bunch after all, as he had soo many top managers to learn from, with different strenghts and weaknesses.
Make no mistake, the main differential between Arteta, Ole and Lampard are their respective squads, so don't laugh too loud at Arsenal, it could happen to us as well
What Ole did was rebuild the squad from that low base to what we see now. He also made very good use of the existing resources he had (such as turning constantly doubted players like Martial and Rashford, and lost causes such as Fred and McTominay into proper Prem-level players) and quickly got onside the top players we had who were disillusioned and close to leaving like DDG. He actually had an idea as to how he was going to go about it and set out to do so as soon as he could.
Arteta has done almost nothing of the sort. He has a good bunch of kids there who are being ignored. He continually plays the deadwood despite them constantly letting him down, and his piece de resistance is that contract to Willian, who literally anyone with a functioning pair of eyes could see was a feck up in the making.
Manager makes great signing - “he was lucky!”. No credit at all to Ole for signing off on Bruno or convincing VDB and Cavani amongst others to sign with us.
When people are stuck with a narrative in their mind, they will shape whatever they want to fit into it. But as someone said once, it's better to get a 'lucky' manager than some tactical genius who loses.
100%. Ole had to take a step back to go forward later for the medium and long term success of United.
Rationalising the squad was one ie getting a certain type of player rather than having an ensalada of players from multiple managers and so he had to get rid fo deadwoods plus players who were causing disharmony with the squad. All this was handed to him by the board whilst he was still the interim manager. This will both allowed him to eventually play the football that he envisions but also the financial flexibility to build forward beyond picking up or developing players from the academy.
Ole has since formally structured the integration of the academy into the 1st team is another by having Nicky Butt's new remit as that formal bridge.
I don't see anything Arteta is doing for the medium or long term. Maybe his remit isn't that. I see a bloated management structure above Arteta who want to control their coach by making the deals or transfers with or without the coach's input. (Saliba, Ozil, Mari, Cedric comes to mind.) Never mind some fishy business that's going on.
The transfers of Luiz and now Willian reeks of short-termism. They are getting ageing players and then giving them 3yrs contracts when are on the wrong side of 20s or early 30s when you signed them?
They may be free but the respective financial burden of players who will most likely not contribute after year 2 in their contracts will just weight down Arsenal's ability to manoeuvre in the transfer market in the future.
So I don't just blame Arteta, I blame the layer of management above him. They think are being clever in thinking they are playing Moneyball... but in their case very badly. It explains the bizarre presser Arteta did regarding the percentages.
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This is so very true
The Willian signing really encapsulates the Arteta 2020-2021 campaign.That’s why the media back him though and it’s laughable. They treat Guardiola like some demigod even though he’s the biggest chequebook manager in history to make his teams work. Arteta doesn’t have those resources at Arsenal.
The media have chosen their narrative with Arteta since day one and many are still keeping to it, with no acceptance they were wrong on his ability. It just goes to show the football journalists are just as bad as football fans.
I find your posts a bit bipolar tbf. Refering to the Ole outs threads where some disappointed fans have been write off their anger after a defeat is not the same to what Arteta going through now.
Arteta basically have the whole fanbase against him and he’s probably not far from losing the whole squad and board. Whereas Ole arguably improved the team massively during his 2 years at the club. Most of the real fans don’t doubt his improvement. And he is still backed by the board.
The main difference between Ole and Arteta is just man management in my opinion. I can see many of Uniteds players have improved under Ole such as Fred, Rashford, Lindelöf and Greenwood. Add to that probably the best signing in the Prem since Mo Salah in Bruno Fernandes.
In the case of Arteta he’s not get a single signing right imo. And most important - his players seems to not play for him anymore. Similar to the Mourinho situation at Chelsea second string.
So, I would say Ole is superior to Arteta. But hey, Arteta is Elite level manager according to ’football people’ so who am I to judge?
I think man management isn't "just" an aspect of being a football manager. I'd argue that it's the most important think that they should master.
Ole has been exemplary in this regard. You could see that players are still playing for him even though the results wasn't good. The best tactics would not bring wins if the players are not on the manager side.
Ole has been exemplary in this regard. You could see that players are still playing for him even though the results wasn't good. The best tactics would not bring wins if the players are not on the manager side.
Exactly. If you're manager of a big club, especially, you're going to be fielding a better side than the opponent 9 games out of 10, and tactics, while important, aren't as important as players giving their all - as I'd expect team with better players to still win the game as long as players are giving their all.
Listen to any of our ex-players, and they talk how great SAF was at getting to them. He knew what motivated whom and how to treat each player. And this is one of the reasons why Mou hasn't managed to become a SAF like figure at any club. He's (or atleast was) tactically as good as anyone, but the motivating players by always critcizing them and downplaying their achievements can only last so long.
Agreed. I’m not a staunch Ole supporter but I remember how upset he was when we lost 4-0 in April (2019) against Everton. Remember him saying in the post-match press conference that he will be successful here and some players will not be part of that success. I think he is a great man manager and he expects players to do the same for him.
Of all the talk about Ole's lack of experience and CV, Arteta has none at all as a head coach/manager.
He could be as tactical astute as you want, but without the man-management aspect as people already has mentioned, you simply need to learn the hard way.
And Arteta for me has never seemed like a high empathy guy, or at least, a very mechanical one at it.
Whether you coach Molde or Cardiff, the man-management is the same. After the new manager bounce they both have had, Ole was better equipped to deal with it.
But you need to get to that bottom point to get up again, and I'm sure Arteta will eventually do that.
He could be as tactical astute as you want, but without the man-management aspect as people already has mentioned, you simply need to learn the hard way.
And Arteta for me has never seemed like a high empathy guy, or at least, a very mechanical one at it.
Whether you coach Molde or Cardiff, the man-management is the same. After the new manager bounce they both have had, Ole was better equipped to deal with it.
But you need to get to that bottom point to get up again, and I'm sure Arteta will eventually do that.
I know it’s a bit sad to enjoy his failure like this. It’s just a reaction to the sycophantic journalism that built this guy up to be the second coming. The Cult of Pep really thought he was the “one”.
Arsenal fans were screaming to remove Wenger and now it is the squads' fault. Arsenal and United's fate has been pretty similar since Sir Alex and Arsene left. Not to forget Gill and the guy who was Arsene's sidekick. The name escapes my memory.
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There are certain things managers shouldn't be able to survive on. Its a ridiculous run Arsenal are on domestically and I'm not sure what their management is waiting for. Even if Arteta is good enough, he is not good enough currently to get the best out of this Arsenal squad. Allowing this to continue is just another way of lowering the standards for the next manager.
Its now a matter of when for Arteta's departure.
Its now a matter of when for Arteta's departure.
What's the plan, please enlighten me.
Its a masterplan. To relegate arsenal.
Robbie becomes a billionaire from aftv views buys arsenal and returns them to glory.
I wish a manager would just come out and say he’s absolute wank. It’s getting boring now that he’s losing every week but he’s then defended by the opposing manager or pundit.