Lingard was poor before Ole came. In honesty Ole has improved alot of players. Fred, McTominnay, Shaw is just 3.
I dont think Ole is good enough, but you’re wrong here
Lingard to join West Ham on loan
- Thread starter VeevaVee
- Start date
I dont think Ole is good enough, but you’re wrong here
You are wrong he was quality when we got second place under Mourinho and played for England. Before that a decent backup player.
He was only pure shit under Ole.
He goal drought started under Jose
Yeah how many?
Everyone was poor when Mourinho got fired. Although Ole could not get him going again over a long time.
Granted Lingard is not good enough to start for us, but Ole is terrible with squad players.
Not every attacking player didnt score or assist for over 12 months. He was the only one
That was under Ole though and he scored in the cups anyway.
It started under Jose and he scored 1 or 2 in cups after about 13 months
Well I was mainly thinking Haaland, but that is a bit unfair since you can claim Ole helped develop him. Although Ole not buying him shows how he did not rate him for us. Lukaku as well, but we only had him a short time.
Young improved as well and Sanchez and Dalot too,but yeah no world beaters. Smalling was good for Ole so not included.
Fellaini he sold without playing I guess.
I thought it was last year? He had one league goal vs Leicester.
It was over more than a season Ill say it again. Anyway lets move on
I think it’s more the club and how expectations still remain sky high despite the club not being at that level for years. A lot of players who leave this, for want of a better phrase, toxic pressure cooker of an environment - tend to do quite well.
Even though we’ve been poor performance-wise and honours speaking for however many years, the responsibility of playing for Manchester United is still as high as ever from fans, media, and punditry.
Purging yourself from such a spot and going to a completely different environment (or country in other cases) helps massively.
Have to remember - it’s not everyone, though! Lingard is doing well, as are Memphis and Lukaku. But then you have Mkhitaryan who tanked at Arsenal (though I’d say they have a similar issue to what I’ve said above, albeit in a slightly less impactful manner); Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc etc.
What other players have turned world class since Ole sold them?
Alternatively, without the immense pressure of fans who wont accept anything less than a win in every game, a player like Lingard is more free to play his game.
Go to a West Ham forum and read their match thread for yesterdays game and see the difference between that and anything you'd read on here. They were 3-0 up and didnt get a win, and their fans largely are ok with the result, some citing their injury problems, others accepting the fact that on the day the opposition was better than them. Of course they are disappointed with the manner of the result to lose a 3 goal lead, but arent necessarily disappointed with the result itself.
Now compare that to what this place would have been like if we were to throw away a 3-0 lead. Within minutes of the final whistle we'd have multiple new threads saying how our players arent good enough, are complete bottlers, the manager is shit, and bumping of every other negative thread.
Its not hard to see why players might struggle to enjoy playing for our club when we have one of the most toxic, self entitled fanbases in the world.
I'm not sure Ole gets credit for Shaw. I think Shaw improved Shaw
Haaland was good at Molde under Solskjaer, and it seems like he does rate him as he's said publicly.
Lukaku was having a shit season before Solskjaer came but he's a good player so no surprise he's doing well again in a team built around him. Young was always a decent player and playing in a league like Italy suited him at his age he' couldn't hack it in the PL anymore. Sanchez has been average for Inter, as has Dalot from what I've seen.
Selling Fellaini was a good move.
Let Herrera go at the right time as well, instead of giving him massive wages. He was about to decline and subsequently suffered a series of injuries over at Paris. Fred even came good for awhile, during that period when Pogba was out.
Yeah I do not claim to know how good Haaland was for Molde, but I do not think Ole knew how good he would be.
If he knew he should have tried getting him from Salzburg after he sold Lukaku.
I think not going for a striker that summer was an error or a wing forward type.
I agree with the pressure. Lingard looks free to enjoy himself again and dare go for goals.
For us it was just sideway passes the last season.
For some reason he worked better when Mourinho put some faith in him too though and things went alright for us.
He did we tried to sign him in January 2020.
Not singing a winger has cost us but they did try to sign Sancho. The big mistake the club made there though was not moving onto another target when Dortmund tried to fleece them.
I hope this means we get more ££ for him in the summer.
I'm happy he's doing well but coming back to United shouldn't be an option.
I'm happy he's doing well but coming back to United shouldn't be an option.
Yeah I know, but I think we should have gone for a striker earlier than that or a winger.
I think it may be better for both parts if he goes.
He is in theory a great squad player, but I do think he like being the big star for West Ham.
I have no words, good grief.
I didn't say it would be a quality trio, just that they would probably impressive in terms of being relentless in pressing the opposition defenders, besides I thought that is what a lot of united fans wanted from players, a load of passion and relentless running around on the pitch. Ole seems to like it as well seeing as he favours james a lot even during his awful spell, as well as a midfield duo of mctominay and fred and use to favour lingard despite 0 assists and goals for almost a whole season.
he’s got a point though.
Not really Jesse’s fault that he wasn’t moved on sooner, but he does still have a point.
He’s got a point that Jesse is a cnut? Wow!
I think Telles improved Shaw.
Really? And who are all these others who turned into world class footballers once they left?
But of course, it FEELS like that so it's not like you have to prove it. You're clearly a very emotional man.
Another alternative. Here we go:
Fans were toxic and turned or broked him down.
If supported by United fans they decline
Players have to take responsibility for their own situation, and I’m glad Lingard finally did.
Everyone. Check out the Jesse Lingard thread in the Players section. See how many posters thought he ought to have been a regular starter before he was loaned out, or that the club was unfairly holding him back. Check out his player ratings in the games where he played. Then have a good think about that before going on this thread and posting BS about how OGS destroyed him.
Wait are people saying Ole ruined Lingard? For anyone to claim that with a straight face they have to show posts of them saying that BEFORE Lingard went on loan, otherwise it’s just captain hindsight rubbish.
Sometimes you have to let people go or freeze them out for their own good so they can actually sort themselves out personally. He's not good enough to start and will get in a rut if just a squad player again, he squandered chance after chance.
We also had Mason doing very well scoring 17 goals.
We also had Mason doing very well scoring 17 goals.
Another alternative. Here we go:
Fans were toxic and turned or broked him down.
If supported by United fans they decline
Players have to take responsibility for their own situation, and I’m glad Lingard finally did.
I think you may be on to something there. Hopefully noone did read the CAF.
Could be a huge factor for Martials form this season and I guess he could be a world star in another club.
It's not that complicated, some players are meant for some teams, some managers and some systems. If they're playing well elsewhere after having poor at United, it doesn't mean getting them back will turn around their fortunes.
I did not see him use that word?
He made the point that Jesse stunk the place out for two years and is all of a sudden better now he’s left. This is factual, if somewhat harsh in its terminology.
Jesse was poor for us for a long time in a number of systems, for a number of managers.
I wish him every success at West Ham, but I really really do not want to see him in a United shirt again. However good his purple patch for the hammers may be.
Surely that’s fair?
The revisionism on this forum is astounding at times. Can you guys not think further than 3 games back?
It's certainly looking a bit odd to have a player in his late twenties out on loan performing nicely when we have issues in a few of the positions he can play.
There are a lot of explanations of course - different teams, maybe he needed a change, he was poor for us for a while, he can't really play centrally for us. But it certainly would be nice if he was here performing well rather than at West Ham and with a few performances we've seen from our striker and right sided players, even more so.
There are a lot of explanations of course - different teams, maybe he needed a change, he was poor for us for a while, he can't really play centrally for us. But it certainly would be nice if he was here performing well rather than at West Ham and with a few performances we've seen from our striker and right sided players, even more so.
The thing with that is our expectations are far greater even though we haven't challenged for the title in 8 years, due to being the best team for 20 years. People still haven't adapted, me included, and still think we should be winning if we go 2-3 goals in front.
I think we'd all be disappointed if we'd had the same result from the position West Ham were in sunday, but thats the point. West Ham fans are talking about how well they did, so the likes of Lingard get a free pass from their fans even though he was part of a team that dropped points from such a strong position. Our fanbase wouldnt accept that (rightly so) and so if a player doesnt have the pressure from fans that its not acceptable to lose from that position, they feel more relaxed.
The solution isnt to lower our expectations, but to improve the mentality of our squad. If that means getting rid of the likes of Lingard, and replacing them with Bruno type players, who want to drag the whole team by the scruff of the neck, then thats what we do. The poster i initially replied to seemed to suggest that Lingard was doing well because of coaching, however the coach involved is Moyes and we all know how that went when he came here as well.