Jarrod Bowen under investigation for racist tweet

[big rons sovereign]

It seems like we have a bunch of white guys tripping over each other to feign outrage or virtual signal over a kid using a pop cultural phrase of the time.

And no, I’m not white and I find nothing offensive about what a teenager tweeted 9 years ago.

neighbor please!

It's maddening.

A mate put it last night as the morality version of Dunning Kruger, people being unable to see anything other than black or white. Literally and metaphorically.

It's nothing more than a kid being influenced by pop culture, whether it be rap music, or movies the n word is rife.
I can think of ten scenes from mainstream movies straight off the top of my head.

In my opinion, the real problem are those searching back through 9 years of tweets looking to find a reason to start some shit. They need locking up.
Nobody was bothered until they did that.

 

[Zaphod2319]

It's maddening.

A mate put it last night as the morality version of Dunning Kruger, people being unable to see anything other than black or white. Literally and metaphorically.

It's nothing more than a kid being influenced by pop culture, whether it be rap music, or movies the n word is rife.
I can think of ten scenes from mainstream movies straight off the top of my head.

In my opinion, the real problem are those searching back through 9 years of tweets looking to find a reason to start some shit. They need locking up.
Nobody was bothered until they did that.

Completely agree. The outrage should be directed toward the “journalist” that thought he would benefit from this. It is silly that people latch on to this type of trash when there really is very hurtful racist crap happening everyday full of malice. This use of pop culture by a then teenager just distracts from the real problem.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

We don’t have separate words for negro, n’a and n’er, néger can mean any of these. It’ definitely not the colour black. Younger people don’t ise it anymore in Hungary because it is offensive but we say it when referring to a traditional dessert because when the dessert was created this word was acceptable. And I’m saying we won’t change the name because even the idea is ridiculous. The dessert’s name is not a racial slur, the first part of it can be interpreted as a racial slur, but considering the time it was named, it is perfectly acceptable. And I don’t thing you should suggest foreigners what to do with their language.

That dessert's name most certainly IS a racial slur according to many Hungarians. If you choose to interpret it differently and have no problem openly telling people "we won't change it" because your happy with a tacial slur to be used, that says a lot about you.

"Its perfectly acceptably, considering the time it was named" is one of the dumbest thing I've read on this forum. I would suggest giving your head a wobble and actually thinking about what you're typing. The N word wasn't unacceptable four decades ago but most definitely is today. Does that mean something that references the n word in it is acceptable since that term was acceptable at the time?

I also didn't say anything about telling "foreigners" to change their language. So I suggest not wasting my time implying that I did in any capacity. What you need to do is sort out your thoughts though, and make sure you're able to articulate a single coherent argument.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

This is what I posted.



By going after I am referring to the thread title which says he is under investigation for his tweet. Not sure why your only picking on the fact that I referenced how long ago it was, I also mentioned it was wrong and that he was a kid.

And I agree with you on both those counts. I was just clarifying that I don't think the length of time since an incident like this has happened makes it less offensive. If that wasn't what you meant, then my apologies. I don't disagree with your overall point.

 

[Bastian]

I mean, it’s a silly thing to say as a white man (well, white boy) but it was 9 years ago, he was a kid & racial sensitivities/tensions weren’t anywhere near as high back then. An apology should be sufficient. An actual official punishment would be rather absurd in my opinion. If we were all held accountable as an adult for silly things we said/did as teenagers I think we’d all be in trouble, I know I certainly would.

Why should he apologise for something he said when he was 15? It's ludicrous. This has gotten completely out of hand and is not serving the cause one bit.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Why should he apologise for something he said when he was 15? It's ludicrous. This has gotten completely out of hand and is not serving the cause one bit.

I get what you’re saying. It’s just the society we are living in now. Racial tensions are as high as I can ever remember in my life, and the media & social media in particular seem to escalate it. I think an apology is the maximum that should happen. If he’s fined or banned its an absolute farce.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Another young white kid trying to sound 'gangsta'. West Ham probably doing the right thing by dealing with it internally and warning him about the image now that he is an employee of a huge institution. Now sure what the FA can do about it as I am unsure of their powers in actions involving school boys who weren't under FA guidelines at that time unless of course he was.......

I think you'd be surprised.

 

[Bastian]

I get what you’re saying. It’s just the society we are living in now. Racial tensions are as high as I can ever remember in my life, and the media & social media in particular seem to escalate it. I think an apology is the maximum that should happen. If he’s fined or banned its an absolute farce.

Sure. But what's happening today shouldn't be affecting kids 9 years ago. That's just insane. And he didn't even say anything vile. Unadulterated racism is rife and equal opportunities are not available, but the powers that be focus on stuff like this. It's empty virtue signalling and it undermines true grievances.

 

[FreddieTheReddie]

That dessert's name most certainly IS a racial slur according to many Hungarians. If you choose to interpret it differently and have no problem openly telling people "we won't change it" because your happy with a tacial slur to be used, that says a lot about you.

"Its perfectly acceptably, considering the time it was named" is one of the dumbest thing I've read on this forum. I would suggest giving your head a wobble and actually thinking about what you're typing. The N word wasn't unacceptable four decades ago but most definitely is today. Does that mean something that references the n word in it is acceptable since that term was acceptable at the time?

I also didn't say anything about telling "foreigners" to change their language. So I suggest not wasting my time implying that I did in any capacity. What you need to do is sort out your thoughts though, and make sure you're able to articulate a single coherent argument.

Are you trying to tell me what is acceptable in my native language and what isn’t? Some 20 year olds would say it is a racial slur, older people wouldn’t understand why. About 20 years ago when I was a kid black people were called “néger” and it was acceptable. Now I wouldn’t use the word because I know more about western culture but older people would still use it, maybe not in professional environment but many do. And “néger” doesn’t sound as bad as “n’er” in English beacuse we were not involved in slavery and don’t have any history with black people. But the name of the dessert does not mean black kiss or negro kiss, the word clearly refers to the race not the colour.

 

[OL29]

people want to be outraged. He didn’t say n*gg*r now did he? What he did say was when two guys are being sarcastic. If you cant tell the difference then you probably shouldn’t be posting about the subject.

the phrase he used ends with an a and at the time was popularized by the Dave Chappelle show and rap songs. It was mostly used as a sarcastic response or two friends messing with each other.

You’re right, I as a black man shouldn’t be discussing racism, I obviously have no experience or knowledge of the topic. May as well end this conversation here.

 

[Phil Osophy]

Absolute madness. If the guy gets banned/fined then I don't know how to label it.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Should be sent on a course. As all young players probably should. Try to educate the lad and if hes at it again then the book should be thrown at him.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I get what you’re saying. It’s just the society we are living in now. Racial tensions are as high as I can ever remember in my life, and the media & social media in particular seem to escalate it. I think an apology is the maximum that should happen. If he’s fined or banned its an absolute farce.

See Cavani. There is no way an apology is the maximum that will happen.

 

[Judas]

See Cavani. There is no way an apology is the maximum that will happen.

Very different situation and can't even slightly be compared. This crap happened 9 years ago when he was a dumb kid. Not saying Cavani's punishment was correct, but it so totally unlike this issue.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Should be sent on a course. As all young players probably should. Try to educate the lad and if hes at it again then the book should be thrown at him.

What if he hasnt been 'at it again' at all, and has since learned better, only forgetting to delete 9 year old comments? I mean, I get that it's a lesser punishment if a punishment is absolutely necessary, but could still be harsh.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Are we the only people talking about this?

 

[Paxi]

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

See Cavani. There is no way an apology is the maximum that will happen.

That was ridiculous too.

 

[Zaphod2319]

You’re right, I as a black man shouldn’t be discussing racism, I obviously have no experience or knowledge of the topic. May as well end this conversation here.

Then you should know there was no malice in what he tweeted!!
As I said in a subsequent post, I am not white. I am a citizen of the Choctaw Nation. I have lived my live working with our tribal council to find ways to make sure our youth grow up with a positive self image. This kid using a pop culture reference is not the slight bit racist. The journalist that is trying to profit from it is the problem because it distracts from the real problem when there is malice involved.

 

[red4ever 79]

Absolute madness. If the guy gets banned/fined then I don't know how to label it.

Label it for what it is a load of bollocks

 

[matherto]

I never argued it was socially acceptable. But I would argue that kids didnt really understand the full weight of the word, and would use it in their own little corner of social interaction. Perhaps not as readily as some other words, but used without batting an eye none the less. They saw the word as just another name to call someone. The fact the word is the last thing a lot of people heard before they were hung, beaten, burned, raped and god knows what else never enters into when youre young and dumb.

But they don't in real life when they can be identified.

They do it under the veil of online anonymity with very little repercussions much like the people that abuse black players online when they have a bad game.

Young kids don't call each other n****r or say they'll rape your mum in day to day discourse, that's why it's so prevalent in online gaming because they don't have to worry about it. As such it's nothing to do with age.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Based on experience of myself and others, as well as working in education.

I suppose it could also be how we define “grammar”. I was always taught to speak properly, but we were never taught the names of tenses or a technical way to structure a sentence. 16-year-old me would not be able to identify the adverb and adjective in a sentence, or say what a past participle is. Maybe I was just thick, but I got a “B” in English.

Perhaps the syllabi have changed in schools now, I did leave school a long time ago, but I’m sure I read an article recently that was arguing for schools to start teaching English grammar in order to make language learning easier.

I’ve learnt a couple of languages in my adulthood and I had to learn English grammar first, as the foreign languages were all explained technically.

Well I don’t know what your experience was or I’d but to state that grammar schools were phased out in the 70s was plain inaccurate.
Schools have been teaching grammar robustly since September 2013 like I’ve said. Whatever article you read was obviously badly researched

 

[Spaghetti]

Well I don’t know what your experience was or I’d but to state that grammar schools were phased out in the 70s was plain inaccurate.
Schools have been teaching grammar robustly since September 2013 like I’ve said. Whatever article you read was obviously badly researched

It really isn’t. You have access to Google, use it.

Maybe the article which I read was pre 2013. Time flies. And I’ve not been in England since well before September 2013.

Bowen probably didn’t study grammar at school.

 

[sport2793]

The hashtag is absolutely racist.

It's all about context, if it's an all white friend group then it may be racist but it's more likely just pop culture. Kids that age talk like that all the time. That said, since they punished Cavani they should punish him too.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It really isn’t. You have access to Google, use it.

Nobody - presumably - denies the relevant historical facts here, most importantly the introduction of comprehensive schools. But that reform (introduced by Labour back in the 1960s) didn't outlaw grammar schools - and effectively it didn't succeed in phasing them out either. Unless you consider the "phasing out" process to be still ongoing.

Not sure what you're trying to argue here, to be honest.

Schools (secondary) which admit students based on academic achievement still exist - and have never been in much danger of being outlawed.

 

[calodo2003]

Speaking as a black man, I can tell you categorically, that is not true.

Undeniably wasn’t true. Baffling if thought otherwise.

 

[calodo2003]

It was malicious prior to 2012. Perhaps you meant this sarcastically and the less-than-perfect syntax has given an inaccurate representation of what you were trying to say.

Obviously I’m being sarcastic. That initial line is a direct quote from a post previous to mine.

 

[rhajdu]

It really isn’t. You have access to Google, use it.

Maybe the article which I read was pre 2013. Time flies. And I’ve not been in England since well before September 2013.

Bowen probably didn’t study grammar at school.

Please take your own advice. You can easily find the national curriculum for England and you can see yourself that English is a subject in all local-authority-maintained schools. The programmes of study include many requirements in connection with English grammar.
For example, in years 3 and 4 the pupils should be taught to:
- extending the range of sentences with more than one clause by using a wider range of conjunctions, including when, if, because, although
- using the present perfect form of verbs in contrast to the past tense
- choosing nouns or pronouns appropriately for clarity and cohesion and to avoid repetition
- using conjunctions, adverbs and prepositions to express time and cause
- using fronted adverbials

By the way, in Hungary they also teach Hungarian grammar for years in the primary and secondary schools. Based on another quick search, prescriptive grammar is taught in primary and secondary schools in many countries. For me it is a surprise if there is a country where they don't teach rules of their native language for their students.

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

But they don't in real life when they can be identified.

They do it under the veil of online anonymity with very little repercussions much like the people that abuse black players online when they have a bad game.

Young kids don't call each other n****r or say they'll rape your mum in day to day discourse, that's why it's so prevalent in online gaming because they don't have to worry about it. As such it's nothing to do with age.

yeah, they do. Did you not read my previous post? Kids do all sorts of shit when adults aren’t looking. And even when they are sometimes. It has always been this way. It always will be.

 

[Spaghetti]

Nobody - presumably - denies the relevant historical facts here, most importantly the introduction of comprehensive schools. But that reform (introduced by Labour back in the 1960s) didn't outlaw grammar schools - and effectively it didn't succeed in phasing them out either. Unless you consider the "phasing out" process to be still ongoing.

Not sure what you're trying to argue here, to be honest.

Schools (secondary) which admit students based on academic achievement still exist - and have never been in much danger of being outlawed.

They were outlawed in 1998 and “controversially” reintroduced in 2016.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...plainer-controversy-theresa-may-a7233531.html

As for grammar schools “not being phased out”... The graph shows them to be pretty phased out:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-34538222

 

[duffer]

They were outlawed in 1998 and “controversially” reintroduced in 2016.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...plainer-controversy-theresa-may-a7233531.html

As for grammar schools “not being phased out”... The graph shows them to be pretty phased out:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-34538222

They were not "outlawed" in 1996 or "reintroduced" in 2016,

The graph in the second link shows no change to the number of grammar schools over the last 40 years.

 

[Red00012]

Should be sent on a course. As all young players probably should. Try to educate the lad and if hes at it again then the book should be thrown at him.

He was 15

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

He was 15

Being sent on a course to educate him isn't punishment. Would set a better example than ignoring it and a much better example than fines/bans.

 

[lsd]

It is racist and ignorant. The fact he was 15yrs old at the time is not an excuse to be either of those things.

I knew better at that age if you didn't then maybe you should take a look at yourself.

A ban is fair enough

 

[JakeC]

It is racist and ignorant. The fact he was 15yrs old at the time is not an excuse to be either of those things.

I knew better at that age if you didn't then maybe you should take a look at yourself.

A ban is fair enough

Its a dangerous precedent. Banning someone for a tweet they made 10 years ago, when they were a child.

Its a stupid thing that he said, but any punishment further than an education course, or being asked to donate 10k to an anto racism charity, is ridiculous.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Obviously I’m being sarcastic. That initial line is a direct quote from a post previous to mine.

You didn't quote anything. You just typed that the n word and it's varients weren't offensive prior to 2012. That's the reason several people in this thread immediately told you you're wrong and tried to educate you.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and suggested you might have been sarcastic, which you just confirmed was the case. If it were obvious, you wouldn't have had the other members respond to you the way they did.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

It is racist and ignorant. The fact he was 15yrs old at the time is not an excuse to be either of those things.

I knew better at that age if you didn't then maybe you should take a look at yourself.

A ban is fair enough

I think most people agree with you that it's not an excuse. And that the incident was ignorant and shouldn't be excused. Where people disagree is whether a punishment like a ban is exorbitant, given that he was only a teenager when he did it, and that it doesn't appear that he engaged in the same behaviour in the time since (which means he might have learned since that time).

Some people are advocating sending the player to a course. That isn't necessarily a punishment, and can't be interpreted as extreme.

Agree with your overall point. Even at that age, we knew that certain words are inappropriate, and I would think that most people should know better than to use offensive terms like that in their adolescent years.

 

[Achilles McCool]

Quick question...what happens if Bowen is punished and given a 3 match ban and he apologizes?
Then, sometime next year, a journalist finds another offensive tweet that he made when he was 16 but nobody knew about until the journalist in 2022 publishes the new tweet.
Will Bowen but subjected to another ban? Or was his apology in 2021 for all past tweets, and not just the tweet he made when he was 15?

This is an honest question with no white text.
What if a journalist had proof of many tweets throughout Bowen’s childhood, and decided to release them as a trickle, once a year? Would Bowen be subjected to fines/bans/punishment for each time the journalist released another offensive tweet? Could journalists hold professionals “hostage” with further tweets?

 

[calodo2003]

You didn't quote anything. You just typed that the n word and it's varients weren't offensive prior to 2012. That's the reason several people in this thread immediately told you you're wrong and tried to educate you.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and suggested you might have been sarcastic, which you just confirmed was the case. If it were obvious, you wouldn't have had the other members respond to you the way they did.

No, it was sarcasm met with sarcasm. I didn’t want to specifically bold quote the person due to the absurdity of the, but, I guess I should have done so for the more pedant among us. Even the one of the two who perhaps wasn’t replying as sarcastic realized what I did & posted as such.

Wasn’t aware that you were arbiter of facetiousness / sarcasm. Just reading my first line alone should scream sarcasm to most rational people, my second line should have further illuminates that. I can see how it wasn’t the case with you.

Calm down, little one, no need to try to ‘educate’ people on here. You fall desperately short at it. Love the grammar gems in your first paragraph as well.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Being sent on a course to educate him isn't punishment. Would set a better example than ignoring it and a much better example than fines/bans.

Why should he be sent on a course for something he did 9 years ago? The general feel I'm getting from the pro-discipline crowd is to send a message by making an example out of him.