Yep the England Euros run was all just one big conspiracy orchestrated by scheming Southgate, yes sir.
Nobody's saying that, how about you read people's posts instead of living up to your name.Yep the England Euros run was all just one big conspiracy orchestrated by scheming Southgate, yes sir.
Just give them 15-30 minutes off the bench even. The starters were tired. You aren't losing any quality. Putting quality players who have been mismanaged on in the last minute is as if you're saying he doesn't rate the rest of their game above another who's played 100 minutes so all he trusts in them is a penalty. It's horrific.Rashford is pretty experienced at the highest level for a player of his age. However, he (and Sancho) have been on the fringes this tournament. I'd thought you'd want to give the penalty to players you've trusted and hence are full of confidence as a result, not to mention have been a real part of the team. Chucking Rahsford and Sancho on to take penalties when they've barely featured seems a bit strange. And in Saka and Sancho's case they really have no experience with England.
For me the logical thing would be to get a few experienced chaps to have been readied for the penalties. Or at least those who've been playing.
Yep, totally agree.Unnecessary pressure from a pathetic manager.
Because they're boring.how about you read people's posts
Replace the 'they're' with 'mine' and you're spot on.Because they're boring.
That's harsh on Gareth - he's achieved something significant in helping mould this team into one which can get to a final and doesn't have the conceit issues of a few previous England teams. However, it really makes you wonder why he couldn't learn from his own situation as a young un back in the day who failed to convert a penalty in a similar pressure cooker game.Yep, totally agree.
I think this was Southgates thought process for the decision: "Well, everyone wants Sancho and Rashford, I will deliver. If they fail, they can see why I did not bring them. If they succeed, I am a genius for bringing them for the penalty. Either way, I cannot lose"Terrible penalties, make sure Bruno takes ours and keep Rashford and Sancho away from them
Southgate doesn't strike me a someone who reads let alone analyzing studies. Milking the clock for penalties instead of trying to win with Sancho, Grealish, Foden and Rashford on the bench against a weakened Italian team that was there for the taking, against a GK that saved 68% of all the pens he faced and never lost a shootout. It's ridiculous.There was some study that suggested putting your best penalty taker as the third taker is the best move
By relying on penalty England played directly into Italy's hands. Because toe to toe in a full 90 min theres no way Italy could have survived England attacks if it keeps coming at them.Southgate doesn't strike me a someone who reads let alone analyzing studies. Milking the clock for penalties instead of trying to win with Sancho, Grealish, Foden and Rashford on the bench against a weakened Italian team that was there for the taking, against a GK that saved 68% of all the pens he faced and never lost a shootout. It's ridiculous.
To be fair, Italy were the better team for most of the game. I'm not sure what you mean Italy could not have survived. England had no attacking intent. I can't think of a shot on goal for the entire 120 plus minutes outside of Shaw scoring in the first minutes.By relying on penalty England played directly into Italy's hands. Because toe to toe in a full 90 min theres no way Italy could have survived England attacks if it keeps coming at them.
Ronaldo got booed after the altercation with Rooney. It just spurred him on more.Will they get booed across the country this upcoming season?
Shaw, Rice, Trippier, Maguire, Stones, Walker. That's 6 defenders and Saka joined in the 70th minute if i remember correctly. Had a feeling if it comes to penalty, Italy would have the upper hand. I dunno, if it were up to me I'd play more attacking players since the beginning not putting them during penalty shootout. This England team has so many talents up front.To be fair, Italy were the better team for most of the game. I'm not sure what you mean Italy could not have survived. England had no attacking intent. I can't think of a shot on goal for the entire 120 plus minutes outside of Shaw scoring in the first minutes.
You forgot Phillips who's also a defensive-minded player. Saka had a terrible game. I would think the occasion got to him.Shaw, Rice, Trippier, Maguire, Stones, Walker. That's 6 defenders and Saka joined in the 70th minute if i remember correctly. Had a feeling if it comes to penalty, Italy would have the upper hand. I dunno, if it were up to me I'd play more attacking players since the beginning not putting them during penalty shootout. This England team has so many talents up front.
I think you are wrong here. “Pathetic” is probably not the right word. And some of the nonsense here that Southgate was vindictive was obviously wrong.It was horrible for sancho and rashford but in the heat of the moment southgate just wanted to win. To call him a pathetic manager is crazy given he was a few penalties away from winning the euros.
Everyone misses penalties. It happens. Rashford, sancho and saka will get over it.
I just wouldn't think Rashford and Sancho would be in that confidence zone in the England set up being such big players at club level and sitting mostly on the bench. I'd want players that take huge penalties to be A) more experienced for England than Saka and Sancho and B) those that have a spring in their stride during the tournament due to manager's faith (not Rashford and Sancho).Just give them 15-30 minutes off the bench even. The starters were tired. You aren't losing any quality. Putting quality players who have been mismanaged on in the last minute is as if you're saying he doesn't rate the rest of their game above another who's played 100 minutes so all he trusts in them is a penalty. It's horrific.
You could read it this way. And it’s not a unreasonable take at all. But I do think you’re missing the point. For me, it’s not that they took them that fundamentally is the issue. It’s HOW we set them up for it. It’s the fact we brought Sancho and Rashford on so late, especially when they have hardly played all tournament. It’s the fact that that Saka went at 5. I personally don’t agree with who took them, but if we were going to pick these young guys, then surely set them up better to succeed.There’s so much hindsight on this thread it’s ridiculous. If Maguire had missed and Rashford scored you’d all be saying why is a centre back taking a penalty.
Also, odd that LVG is treated like a genius for subbing a new keeper on in the WC, and OGS was criticised for not subbing on Henderson in the Europa League final. If either of those had been unsuccessful then the managers would have been criticised for that. Can’t win (unless you win obviously).
I'm sorry but that is nonsense.I think you are wrong here. “Pathetic” is probably not the right word. And some of the nonsense here that Southgate was vindictive was obviously wrong.
But to say “it’s penalties, it happens” is equally nonsense too. Scoring a penalty in a high stakes shootout is all about handling pressure. To handle it you need resilience and confidence. They might ordinarily have this but in these finals, where they have barely played in the last month, where they were not brought on until right in the end (which is like saying hey, I like your penalties but at the same time I don’t trust you enough to play you for even 15 minutes before penalties), where you know you’ve only been brought on for penalties, creates a serious amount of pressure above what you would already face as a player taking the penalty. Yes, anyone can miss. And yes they all might have missed anyway. But it’s ignorant to ignore that we could have given them a better chance at scoring.
They both barely played all tournament. Being 4/5th choice behind the likes of feckin Mount and Saka - neither of whom have a goal in them.It added a ridiculous amount of unnecessary pressure in an already huge pressure moment, the likes of which we regular people can never imagine.
He completely threw them under the bus. No faith whatsoever in them to even play 10 minutes and get a feel for the ball before pens, just the ridiculous pressure of saying to two young lads, I don’t trust you to play, but go score a pen, that’s the only reason you’re here.
Did I say I know the ultimate method? No. Did I say I know the players better? No. Did I even say that Southgate forced them to take them? No.I'm sorry but that is nonsense.
I reckon southgate knows these lads more than all of us put together can we agree on that?
He picked the takers. If they really didn't want to take it they would've refused. They shot, they missed. That's what happens in penalty shootouts.
Life goes on.
Or do you know the ultimate method of winning a penalty shootout?
I’ve been in that situation in a tinpot semi pro cup and I don’t think enough people realise how uncomfortable it is to be asked to take a shot from 12 yards, (the most important in their lives for these guys), without even touching the fecking ball before hand.Asking a player to take a penalty without having touched the ball is bonkers. Silly decision.
Apologies in relation to your first paragraph but I am genuinely interested to hear what you would've done instead? I am not taking the piss here. If you went back in time and were gareth himself, what would you have done differently? I personally think there's only so much a manager can do when being in a shootout.Did I say I know the ultimate method? No. Did I say I know the players better? No. Did I even say that Southgate forced them to take them? No.
“They shot, they missed, that’s what happens” is such a bullshit take. Why bother with tactics and formations - they played, they lost, that’s what happens.
Like I said, anyone can miss a penalty. The issue though is Southgate made certain decisions which did not give them the best chance to score.
Totally agree. Such poor management.It threw them under the bus to take the biggest shot of their young lives cold.
fecking scumbag management and I called it the instant he got them changed on the sideline.
Those issues are linked.Bringing on regular penalty takers in the last minute happens all the time. They just took poor ones. Bigger issue is England ceding all momentum and letting a fairly limited Italy team without a striker dominate so much of the game and waiting far too long to make game changing subs.
Italy deserved to win, and given the start and the players England had that is a failure.