Liverpool 2020-21

TheReligion

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Thought Henderson still had 2 years on his contract? I don't think losing a 33/34 yo Henderson on a free would be that big a blow, personally.
Sorry I think the point I'm making is that aren't really going about their business quietly as the poster said and making all top decisions. Wijnaldum eluded to not being happy with how he was treated hence leaving, Henderson is now in the same boat with them apparently not wanting to extend him due to injury.

Given these players just won them their first ever PL title there doesn't seem to be much loyalty.
 

tomaldinho1

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I think we are a shoe-in for top four if VVD returns to his previous form.


As great as Shaw has been last season and in the Euros, give me Robertson over him.

Pogba in Henderson's position if he somewhat resembles his France national team performances, and Bruno as CAM.
Agreed although I also think whoever finishes 4th will be hugely disappointed/potentially see managerial changes. Last season top four was fine for Ole, Tuchel and Klopp because of revised expectations (i.e. United had not finished consecutive seasons in the top four, Liverpool injuries and Tuchel coming in mid season) but I don't think it will this time around. Tuchel and Klopp have obviously won major honours so maybe Ole would be most at risk but I can see any of them (even Pep) leaving if they can't challenge for trophies. Shaping up to be a, hopefully, very competitive season.
 

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I think we are a shoe-in for top four if VVD returns to his previous form.


As great as Shaw has been last season and in the Euros, give me Robertson over him.

Pogba in Henderson's position if he somewhat resembles his France national team performances, and Bruno as CAM.
You really can't play suicidal fullbacks if you only have one proper defensive minded midfielder. Has to be two out of Hendo, Fab, Fred or McTom. And even Utd fans don't want to see either half of McFred.

Shaw, I'm afraid, has that little more game awareness around the penalty area than Robertson up front. I'm not just talking about crosses because both players are almost identical in that regards. Defensively they are inseparable too. But that little bit of je ne se quoi. Shaw has it.

I love Robertson's football too. Like really love it.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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While we're here, how is the combined team looking at this point in time, assuming strongly linked players are bought?

Alisson
TAA Varane VvD Shaw
Fabinho Hendo
Sancho Pogba Mane
Salah
Manager: Klopp

Personally, I can see Klopp sacrificing one of Pogba or Bruno for defensive solidity in order to push the fullbacks right up. It could easily be Bruno or Pogba in that number 10 role. Salah is a penalty taker. Penalah.
The more I'm looking at it, the more impressed I am on how we finished above you as we only have 2 players in your combined XI. Although, if we exclude VVD & Gomez due to his injury, it's still only 3-4 of our players.
 

Klopper76

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Sorry I think the point I'm making is that aren't really going about their business quietly as the poster said and making all top decisions. Wijnaldum eluded to not being happy with how he was treated hence leaving, Henderson is now in the same boat with them apparently not wanting to extend him due to injury.

Given these players just won them their first ever PL title there doesn't seem to be much loyalty.
FSG have a strict wage structure. Wijnaldum (or his representatives) wanted significantly more than what the club was willing and able to pay so the talks never got anywhere.
I’m assuming it’s a similar situation with Henderson and considering their age, I actually understand FSG’s point of view on this. They don’t want to pay what they see as premium salary for players entering their 30’s. I think Henderson will decline rapidly as well because of how reliant he is on being able to get around the pitch.

I do feel for Klopp a bit. He’s been given money to spend but he’s surrounded by clubs who can outspend him easily enough when it comes to wages.

I’m fully convinced we won’t win the league this season. Fairly certain we’ll end up 3rd or 4th with Chelsea or City winning it. Wouldn’t mind giving the FA Cup a proper go for once just to get another trophy in the cabinet.
 

simonhch

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They’ll lose both Mane and Salah to the AFCOn in January, and their back ups are rubbish. That will be a tough post Christmas period. Losing Gini is a blow but don’t think they’ll replace him as they have Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Jones, Keita, The Ox, and Milner. They likely need to buy a forward to give them more depth up front. As it is in January they’ll be playing Origi.

Konate will be an interesting one. He’s still very raw and given how often he is injured, not sure he’ll develop enough. We’ll see. How VvD comes back from injury will be key. At his age, a big injury is tough to reach your previous peak, but he was so good pre injury that even if he’s 90% of what he was, he’ll still be brilliant.
 

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The more I'm looking at it, the more impressed I am on how we finished above you as we only have 2 players in your combined XI. Although, if we exclude VVD & Gomez due to his injury, it's still only 3-4 of our players.
Sometimes these things are not indicators, they are outliers. Leicester fans must have been impressed with winning the league above City's billions. Didn't last. They hardly made top four again.

Not saying Utd are following Leicester's path obviously but just an example of thinking the lightbulb is the sun in a darkened room. :)
 

B20

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They have been good in the market under Klopp but I don't see them becoming favourites because their owners are very similar to ours. Top four this season will be cutthroat and I have no doubts one of the big four managers will be sacked/walk.
top 4 seems cut and dried to me. Unless one of the current top four really underperforms, none of the other teams in the league save leicester have the quality to challenge for a top four spot.
 

tomaldinho1

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top 4 seems cut and dried to me. Unless one of the current top four really underperforms, none of the other teams in the league save leicester have the quality to challenge for a top four spot.
Agreed. I guess my point is, for example, say Chelsea finish 4th with 70 points, go out early it the CL and win nothing with a large gap to 1st (i.e. 10+ points) I think Tuchel is immediately under extreme pressure. Same for Ole, Klopp, Pep...last season top four alone was really enough for Tuchel (came in mid season), Klopp (injury crisis) and Ole (aiming for consecutive CL finishes) but it won't be enough this time.

I just want to see a proper title race with United in to be honest, you guys had that with City recently, we haven't had it in yonks.
 

njred

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We didn’t want to pay him. That’s it. I’m surprised he went this route on his interview. Every club has social media idiot supporters.
 

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We didn’t want to pay him. That’s it. I’m surprised he went this route on his interview. Every club has social media idiot supporters.
It wasn't the lack of birthday cake?

It's funny though. Wijnaldum seems like such an easygoing guy. Something must have been off on the social media side for him to make that statement.
 
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Didn't see a thread for Liverpool this season. If there is one please merge this with that.

A lot is being made of Liverpool's drop off and, after all the praise Liverpool have had over the past few years, I'm loving it.

However, I also think this speaks to the poor level of football punditry. Honestly, its shocking some of these people get paid hundreds of thousands to trot out truisms and trash.

There is no major problem with Liverpool IMO. Instead there's a bunch of small things that, on their own don't matter but put together create an issue.

The foremost problem Liverpool have is Klopp's system relies on energy and emotion. A lot of it comes from him. Its draining to play that way for years on the trot without fundamentally refreshing the squad and Liverpool haven't. To compensate for that Klopp always sacked off the domestic cups. However, this season, with the condensed calendar he just hasn't been able to rest his best players. Its showing. The Champions League will make this worse when it resumes cos Liverpool will 100% go for it.

The next problem is related to the condensed calendar: injuries. Yes, everyone has them. However, trying to play Klopp's 'heavy metal football' without being able to refresh the squad with Jota or others. Once Liverpool lost Jota a lot of issues started to arise. Liverpool has to rely on the same players more than ever before and those players are exhausted.

The next problem is related to the previous two points: change of style. People keep asking 'Why Thiago?' Actually, I understand Klopp's thinking: If you have a huge amount of games piled up and you can't refresh the squad, you can't just rely on outrunning everyone. Eventually you'll get muscle injuries. Thiago's there for a more deliberate style, a different way of opening up defences that doesn't just rely on energy. However, the squad Liverpool have isn't really tooled for that. Other players are suffering as a result. Having Thiago in midfield means the Liverpool full backs have to be more cautious, because Thiago can't cover them the way Fabinho or Henderson or Milner do. Liverpool's midfield, before Thiago, was mostly runners. The likes of Keita and Wiljnaldum offer strength and work rate not silky skills. We've seen ourselves with how we've had to rely on McFred, if you've only got two workers rather than three, it can be risky. We do it because the benefit of Bruno at #10 outweighs the disadvantage of doing something different. However, Liverpool having fewer runners in midfield means there's often a lack of cover behind Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. United exploited that, Burnley exploited that, everyone is exploiting it. You can tell Alexander-Arnold and Robertson are conscious of it too and they're not playing with freedom. Its affecting Liverpool going forward and backwards.

All of these things together are why Liverpool are having a tough moment. However, there's a way to remedy all of it and I wouldn't be surprised if Liverpool turn things around.
Interesting view point.

Personally I'm convinced all their problems started and ended in center defence. They never recovered from losing Van Dijk and then Gomez. If Konate can stay fit. He will help them overcome that issue permanently .

I think their only issue going forward is replacing what Gigi added to their midfield
 

njred

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It wasn't the lack of birthday cake?
A nice half hearted effort. Seriously does he think Paris supports are going to be all lovey dovey the first time he makes a mistake or is out of form? He might be in for a little eye opening letdown when the supporters lay into him. I hope not as I think he was a really good player and person for us.
 

njred

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Interesting view point.

Personally I'm convinced all their problems started and ended in center defence. They never recovered from losing Van Dijk and then Gomez. If Konate can stay fit. He will help them overcome that issue permanently .

I think their only issue going forward is replacing what Gigi added to their midfield
That is true. I don’t want to go into this season having to hope that Keita and Thiago will carry us. At least Henderson and Fabinho are in their proper spots but a proper midfielder is needed to make me feel comfortable this season.
 

TheReligion

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We didn’t want to pay him. That’s it. I’m surprised he went this route on his interview. Every club has social media idiot supporters.
Odd he's come out and said that then. Doesn't benefit him to do so or to even make comment surely?
 

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A nice half hearted effort. Seriously does he think Paris supports are going to be all lovey dovey the first time he makes a mistake or is out of form? He might be in for a little eye opening letdown when the supporters lay into him. I hope not as I think he was a really good player and person for us.
Yeah, it does sound a little odd that social media would throw him off like that. It's a plague everywhere, it must be the same regarding his performances for the Dutch national team. But maybe there's more to it than we know.

(Sorry, added a bit to my post above also.)
 

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There isn't a player in the world who hasn't been slated on social media by their own fans. Bit of a weak argument.
 

njred

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Odd he's come out and said that then. Doesn't benefit him to do so or to even make comment surely?
Not all people say normal things like me so yes it’s odd. Personally I think he’s miffed at not getting a big contract and came out with this.
 

TheReligion

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There isn't a player in the world who hasn't been slated on social media by their own fans. Bit of a weak argument.
The whole thing is nonsense I agree.

If you perform poorly at work you'll get criticism. If you're in the public eye some people will have an agenda.

Part of taking hundreds of thousands of pounds per week in wages should compensate for this aspect of the job.
 
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That is true. I don’t want to go into this season having to hope that Keita and Thiago will carry us. At least Henderson and Fabinho are in their proper spots but a proper midfielder is needed to make me feel comfortable this season.
Thiago can. Last season he was badly affected by Fabinho and Henderson moving to center defence.
Liverpool's issue now is there is no real back up for Henderson and Fabinho as steady battlers. Jones is still learning the trade. Milner is old. Keita and OX are unreliable fitness and form wise. Yet the battle role is essential for Klopps system to work and get the best out of the fullbacks. Who they protect defensively and when they break forward.
 

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Any transfer news? Surely you guys need some reinforcements? What's the transfer budget?
 

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Much as I hate the cnuts, it seems fairly inevitable that they're going to be much stronger this year just because half their team aren't likely to be out injured.
 

Rob

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Any transfer news? Surely you guys need some reinforcements? What's the transfer budget?
I’ve tried to search on twitter but haven’t really seen us being linked to anyone. I would hope that we’re looking at a replacement for Wijnaldum and someone to take some of the workload off Salah and Mane without a massive drop in quality.

We’ve sold Awoniyi, Grujic and Wilson, so the money should be there.
 

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Much as I hate the cnuts, it seems fairly inevitable that they're going to be much stronger this year just because half their team aren't likely to be out injured.
They'll definitely be better but im not sure by how much. Not convinced their defence magically becomes great again with Van Dijk back, think they'll need better from everyone else and either luck with injuries or better from their bench to manage more than comfortable top 4 (which looks inevitable).
I rated Wijnaldum quite highly too. He was always one of the more relevant players in our matches. Terrible goalscorer and i learned not too worry too much when he was expected to finish a move. But he was very, very good at everything else. Was always present, always annoying, good passer, good movement, very quick to any loose balls. And he seemed to have a good attitude - thought himself and Robertson were two of their best players last season when everyone else's form was in the toilet. Which is a bit weird for a guy running down his contract and expected to leave at the end of the season. Or notable. I suppose Thiago is no slouch and he'll unfortunately be better this year, but the lack of cover beyond the first 3 could be a problem for them. Especially if its Fabinho they lose to injury.
 

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Klopper76

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Any transfer news? Surely you guys need some reinforcements? What's the transfer budget?
I think we’ll make a couple of moves once a couple more players sell, but we’re relatively limited in terms of money.

We need a midfielder and an attacking player imo.
 

ariveded

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Gonna struggle. VVD already shown signs of struggles after the 1st Covid break back in 19/20 season. Too much false hopes on him again to shine and dominate the space.
 

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I think we’ll make a couple of moves once a couple more players sell, but we’re relatively limited in terms of money.

We need a midfielder and an attacking player IMO.
A replacement for VVD must be on the cards given it's unlikely he'll return the same player he was before the injury, no?
 

groovyalbert

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A replacement for VVD must be on the cards given it's unlikely he'll return the same player he was before the injury, no?
They've already brought in Konate at the back. Although he's not exactly the most reliable injury cover going.
 

njred

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A replacement for VVD must be on the cards given it's unlikely he'll return the same player he was before the injury, no?
He’ll be better imo. We’re stacked in defense as has been well documented. Midfield is the issue
 

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A replacement for VVD must be on the cards given it's unlikely he'll return the same player he was before the injury, no?
It’s difficult to say as it can go either way. Vidic had the same injury iirc and when he came back, he was nowhere near the same sort of player he was before suffering that injury. Or it could end up being like Ibra who had the same injury and is still playing at a high level and scoring goals.
 

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It’s difficult to say as it can go either way. Vidic had the same injury iirc and when he came back, he was nowhere near the same sort of player he was before suffering that injury. Or it could end up being like Ibra who had the same injury and is still playing at a high level and scoring goals.
The thing is, neither Vidic nor Ibra relied on pace to be effective, whereas VVD very much does. I'd be amazed - impressed even - if VVD is still as pacey as he was before the injury.
 

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I don't rate their squad but I rate Klopp very, very much. Surely they will struggle in attack if they don't buy anything? Their midfield is weaker and their forward line is aging. Can't see Salah sustain his high level.
 

Adisa

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Their owners are even more tight fisted than Kreonke. They don't spend any money.
Their last 15 results were fantastic and I have a feeling they will pick up from where they left off.
 

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Their owners are even more tight fisted than Kreonke. They don't spend any money.
Their last 15 results were fantastic and I have a feeling they will pick up from where they left off.
Absolutely agree with this. Even with 10 games to go, no one gave us a chance of top 4, but Klopp managed to find a way to get us in there. It helped that Williams and Phillips suddenly turned into top class centre backs, but having Fabinho back in his preferred DM role was the biggest reason our results improved IMO.
That, and Alissons last minute winner of course