F1 2021 Season

[NotworkSte]

I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.

At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.

 

[NotworkSte]

Vettel won his first WDC at RB around 23 I think. I actually can't remember too much as I stopped watching F1 for a year or so as I was relocating to the US, but I remember not liking him too much at the time at first for some reason. Does anyone remember how he was? Young and aggressive? And how did Horner manage him?

 

[Zlatan 7]

Silverstone tickets for 2022 out today

 

[ArjenIsM3]

It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.

Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred

 

[UweBein]

Could there still be a penalty for Verstappen?

 

[F-Red]

Could there still be a penalty for Verstappen?

He's got a penalty, do you mean the engine penalty that he'll probably take as well in Sochi?

 

[rimaldo]

He's got a penalty, do you mean the engine penalty that he'll probably take as well in Sochi?

i think he means more along the lines of a criminal charge for attempted murder. though verstappen might claim it was a crime of passion as it happened in italy.

 

[F-Red]

i think he means more along the lines of a criminal charge for attempted murder. though verstappen might claim it was a crime of passion as it happened in italy.

Like father, like son.

 

[Jaxa]

Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred

"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.

Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.

 

[F-Red]

I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.

Never said you were English (though you do have Old Trafford as your location), I said that the majority on here is so inevitably Hamilton will get a lot of support. And the rest of your post is extremely one sided and lacks any nuance or common sense. Just like you're now disregarding what I said just because I'm Dutch. I always try to be reasonable on here, contrary to you it seems.

Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.

Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.

 

[dinostar77]

I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.

brilliant

 

[Cheimoon]

Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.

Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.

 

[Dan]

I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.

Well I'll admit that when he first joined F1 he was young and a bit reckless but he's definitely matured since then. I think it's more his personality that people on here don't like. He wears his heart on his sleeve and always says what he thinks, the polar opposite of Hamilton who seems to have had extensive media training. That's fine, each to their own, but it doesn't mean that one is a saint and the other is the devil

 

[11101]

It was a stupid move. Like one of those on a video game where you go for a gap you know isn't there. It shows he is missing something mentally though because with Hamilton on cold tyres, if he had stayed behind he would have had a better run out of the chicane and got a great run up to a perfect overtaking spot at the next chicane. A Championship winning driver would know that.

 

[Gringo]

Watch youtube channel driver61 breakdown on it, describes it really well. Because Lewis hit the apex on T1 there was enough room for Max to believe he had space and attempt to hang on around the outside. If Lewis was more aggressive and missed the apex Max would have had no doubt in having to cut the chicane.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.

Based on other drivers taking that corner in the same race. Based on Max knowing a Monza is a Mercedes track and just having had an 11 second pit stop.

Based on Max having "win it or bin it" approach throughout his F1 career.

It's not so much that Max wanted to crash himself. He would've either pushed Hamilton onto the gravel, gone ahead, or crashed them both out. He raced like he has nothing to lose.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.

Do you even watch F1? Here is a little clip showing just a little of Max's previous "form".

 

[hobbers]

The stewards decision is what it is but the punishment is laughable. Not when you compare with Lewis at Silverstone, but when you compare with Bottas at Hungary. If what Max did yesterday is worth a 3 place grid penalty, what Bottas did is easily worth 20, served in consecutive races if need be. His balls up was orders of magnitude worse and hit several teams in the points and in their budgets.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Watch youtube channel driver61 breakdown on it, describes it really well. Because Lewis hit the apex on T1 there was enough room for Max to believe he had space and attempt to hang on around the outside. If Lewis was more aggressive and missed the apex Max would have had no doubt in having to cut the chicane.

So, some people say Lewis has decided to be too aggressive with Max, to match Maxs style, and is causing incidents. Now you are saying he is not aggressive enough...

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The stewards decision is what it is but the punishment is laughable. Not when you compare with Lewis at Silverstone, but when you compare with Bottas at Hungary. If what Max did yesterday is worth a 3 place grid penalty, what Bottas did is easily worth 20, served in consecutive races if need be. His balls up was orders of magnitude worse and hit several teams in the points and in their budgets.

I don't know how many times it needs to be explained that the first lap and start of a race is always treated differently to the rest of the race.

It's obvious, but I'll explain anyway, cars are tightly packed together at the start and there is much higher likelihood of collisions.

 

[Balljy]

Well I'll admit that when he first joined F1 he was young and a bit reckless but he's definitely matured since then. I think it's more his personality that people on here don't like. He wears his heart on his sleeve and always says what he thinks, the polar opposite of Hamilton who seems to have had extensive media training. That's fine, each to their own, but it doesn't mean that one is a saint and the other is the devil

I agree with that (although young Hamilton was a lot more like Max and he has matured since in front of the media) and the idea that Max went for the move with the intention of taking out Hamilton is ludicrous.

One thing I would say is that Max seems to have got used to other drivers backing out and that's not the way it's going to work when you're in a title battle. Hamilton has backed out quite a few times against Max and didn't at Silverstone which resulted in a crash. I don't think Max has at all really and he has to learn that driving in a car not going for a championship is a very different proposition to the situation now.

When Hamilton is leading into a corner he won't give way, which he would have done 12 months ago. That's lack of experience for Max, but he does come across as somebody who expects the others to move for him most of the time. If he doesn't change this season, I would bet on him losing the title personally if the Mercedes can keep in range of the Red Bull.

 

[RoadTrip]

At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.

I don’t know when you stop calling him young. I also think he’s had enough races and time now to develop. But enabled by RB, he hasn’t got over that inexperience. I hope he comes to realisation over it. I think he is still sufficiently young to learn. But it’s also true he might never.

 

[RoadTrip]

Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred

I don’t see you call out the blatant bullshit by a handful of Max fans or Hamilton haters, though. Perhaps you should just do what all of us try to which is ignore the wildly blinkered posts and focus on discussing with the majority of people in here who can form balanced opinions, even if you disagree.

 

[elmo]

Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.

Only reason he hasn't had more collisions is because everyone usually always bailed and let Max get his way rather than getting hit and ruin their race.

 

[elmo]

Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.

Horner and Max has set the standard at Silverstone, Toto and Lewis are just going to shit bag the whole season and give it to Red Bull just how they dished it out.

It's entertaining really.

 

[TheBest]

Its just great to see so many people talking about F1 again. Best season since the 2012 season? I hope this goes till the last race

 

[Cheimoon]

Do you even watch F1? Here is a little clip showing just a little of Max's previous "form".

That's just over one per year and most are actually from his first two years. Not the strongest evidence that this is a constant and current pattern with him...

 

[ArjenIsM3]

I don’t see you call out the blatant bullshit by a handful of Max fans or Hamilton haters, though. Perhaps you should just do what all of us try to which is ignore the wildly blinkered posts and focus on discussing with the majority of people in here who can form balanced opinions, even if you disagree.

Honestly with the amount of shite Max is getting on here I don't think I have to call out some bullshit of Max fans or Hamilton haters like you call it. There's plenty doing that, and more, already. Though I have said several times Max isn't faultless. You're right maybe it would be best to ignore the extreme posts, but I'll admit sometimes I struggle to do just that.

Horner and Max has set the standard at Silverstone, Toto and Lewis are just going to shit bag the whole season and give it to Red Bull just how they dished it out.

It's entertaining really.

It is entertaining in a way yeah. But I do fear this short term entertainment might harm the sport in the long run. It's unbelievable how childish they all are. Constantly voicing extreme opinions. Constantly piling shite on one another and blaming each other. Trying to assassinate each others characters. Adding fuel to the fire. It's not just F1 though. Seems wherever in society I look things are getting more extreme. It's proving harder and harder to have a normal discussion about anything.

 

[F-Red]

An interesting video from 2017, I think Max thought he would have the same outcome into turn one yesterday as he got in 2017. However whilst he's aged, I don't see much has changed in his wheel to wheel race craft.

 

[RoadTrip]

An interesting video from 2017, I think Max thought he would have the same outcome into turn one yesterday as he got in 2017. However whilst he's aged, I don't see much has changed in his wheel to wheel race craft.

That is interesting. For me, in this and the Lewis incident, it’s not that he doesn’t have a right to be there. He does, he has every right to try that move. The issue for me is twofold:

1. That if he does that, he cannot expect the opponent to simply back out the move just because it’s him and he’s there. As he has a right to be there, Massa has a right to fight too and squeeze him. Like Lewis did. He can try and do what he did as many times as he likes but he needs to understand that people shouldn’t and won’t just move out his way. My issue with him is he acts like everyone should move out his way in those situations and he hasn’t done anything wrong (like I said he can be there, but doesn’t mean he isn’t being reckless).
2. Linked to the last point above, for whatever reason, be it immaturity or something else, he is either ignorant or he knows that there is a relatively high probability he crashes there and goes for it anyway. He still doesn’t recognise it’s better sometimes to pull out of that and live to right another day. It’s fine when he is an underdog car and has to win to have a chance. But whilst he has a solid car and a lead in the championship, he must learn it isn’t about the battle but about the long war. Maybe he did know that yesterday and the cynic would say he wins more than Hamilton by taking them both out. I’d love to give him the benefit of the doubt for now though.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

That's just over one per year and most are actually from his first two years. Not the strongest evidence that this is a constant and current pattern with him...

Oh there is alot more. Look into it, that video was just a snippet.

This for example from 2019.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/formula-1...o-lewis-hamilton-mexican-grand-prix-reactions

 

[Fluctuation0161]

An interesting video from 2017, I think Max thought he would have the same outcome into turn one yesterday as he got in 2017. However whilst he's aged, I don't see much has changed in his wheel to wheel race craft.

Yet more evidence of Max's driving style.

"Win it or bin it".
Yet some will still claim there is not enough evidence.

 

[Balljy]

An interesting video from 2017, I think Max thought he would have the same outcome into turn one yesterday as he got in 2017. However whilst he's aged, I don't see much has changed in his wheel to wheel race craft.

Compare the race craft there to Hamilton vs Alonso this year. There's absolutely no way you could attack Verstappen for multiple laps and corners and stay on the track. There's a huge difference between aggressive driving and forceful but fair driving. Note, the number of times Hamilton backed out when he knew there was no space before forcing a mistake and the number of times Alonso just gives the space.

 

[F-Red]

Alonso just gives the space.

 

[Cheimoon]

Oh there is alot more. Look into it, that video was just a snippet.

This for example from 2019.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/formula-1...o-lewis-hamilton-mexican-grand-prix-reactions

Guess I'm focusing too much on cases where it actually went wrong then. That still means the 'Crashstappen' label is wrong though. (Those nicknames are anyway boringly childish - whoever it was that used it in this case.)

 

[F-Red]

Just some more fuel for the fire...

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR9MFtBL/