[luke511]

The anti-English bias is an argument that doesn't hold up well and it never did. English press obviously cares more about English players and in a similar situation they'll get more coverage, but it's not inherently vile. If players play badly, they get criticised — like Martial does, like Sanchez did, like Di Maria did... if players play well, they'll get their praises — and Maguire was showered with praise at the end of last season & in the summer. Maguire is an awful form, certainly the worst of his career and he's probably the most out-of-form player in United at the moment (not counting the likes Mata that we simply haven't seen in years). He's also a player whose specific weaknesses are very apparent — and lead to en enormous amount of forced & unforced mistakes when he's off form or mentally unchecked.

This is the main reason why Maguire's form's gone down the shitter. Opposition are targetting him tactically, putting their quick, low gravity players on him and instructing them to run at him and feint when dribbling/shooting. He falls for it pretty much every time and damage is done. It's too big a weakness to have as a centre back at a top club.

 

[Stadjer]

I remember a game last year when our opponent scored a late equalizer off a corner kick. Matic was closest to the player who won the header yet Maguire took the blame. "The masses" were claiming that as captain he should do anything he can to win that ball even if he has to take out Matic to get to it. Then in this instance, when he does try to win a ball at all costs he is criticized for going through shaw to try and get a ball. So which one is it? You can't have it both ways. I remember this one and it was a silly mistake by him when Shaw was in position to clear. He's not a perfect defender. Nobody is. Bottom line is Maguire needs our support right now. On form he has been our best central defender over the past 3 years. Now his confidence is at an all time low and I don't blame him one bit. How would you do at your job if every one of your co-workers were yelling at you and scapegoating you for everything going wrong with the company you work for? Funny how people are all of a sudden trying to claim Lindelof is doing so much better yet De Gea is having to make more saves than ever. Bottom line is that our defense isn't the problem. It's our midfield. But scapegoaters are gonna scapegoat...

You are just repeating Goldbridge now

 

[Desert Eagle]

Just don't feck up against West ham

 

[romufc]

Just don't feck up against West ham

We all know he will. West Ham are set piece specialists. Maguire cannot deal with it.

 

[Lentwood]

The anti-English bias is an argument that doesn't hold up well and it never did. English press obviously cares more about English players and in a similar situation they'll get more coverage, but it's not inherently vile. If players play badly, they get criticised — like Martial does, like Sanchez did, like Di Maria did... if players play well, they'll get their praises — and Maguire was showered with praise at the end of last season & in the summer. Maguire is an awful form, certainly the worst of his career and he's probably the most out-of-form player in United at the moment (not counting the likes Mata that we simply haven't seen in years). He's also a player whose specific weaknesses are very apparent — and lead to en enormous amount of forced & unforced mistakes when he's off form or mentally unchecked.

It's not that there's an anti-English bias per se, I meant there's added scrutiny because they are English, because they play for United and because they demanded massive transfer fees.

I wouldn't agree that Maguire is the 'most out of form player'. There's one game this season were I think Maguire was genuinely poor as an individual, and that was Leicesster, were he rushed back from an injury to try and help the team. Rashford has been horrible. Sancho has one assist and one goal. Fred...well Fred is Fred. McTominay has been very hit and miss. Shaw, AWB, Lindelof, Varane, Telles and Dalot have all been part of the back four which has struggled all season. Cavani hasn't got going, Ronaldo started well but has been poor for two months now...I could go on. Fernandes has turned in some absolutely downright rank performances.

Basically, every player has struggled because we haven't been collectively good enough as a team.

 

[harms]

There's one game this season were I think Maguire was genuinely poor as an individual

Unless you for some reason distinguish it from other games where Maguire was poor as a collective, I’m not sure what standards do you have for a centre back. Most of our players have been hit and miss, while Maguire had been consistently tragic with maybe one or two borderline decent performances shoved in-between. It’s not just his fault — our whole team is a mess and our defense is struggling without him as well with Wan-Bissaka & Shaw having very bad seasons. But as an individual he is our worst performer by some margin.

 

[Stadjer]

We all know he will. West Ham are set piece specialists. Maguire cannot deal with it.

West Ham does have a lot of big guys who are good in the air though, he can usefull against that.

 

[romufc]

West Ham does have a lot of big guys who are good in the air though, he can usefull against that.

Evidence has shown that he doesn't really help.

1. He doesnt get on any of our corners
2. We have one of the worst set piece records

 

[the chameleon]

And on those games where we kept clean sheets, if you go back and look at the player ratings I can guarantee you that Maguire got low scores from the "fans"...

Just a innocent question here. Are you a member of Maguire's rather large family. If so, I admire the way you defend him! He certainly could learn a few tricks from you!

 

[the chameleon]

Just a innocent question here. Are you a member of Maguire's rather large family. If so, I admire the way you defend him! He certainly could learn a few tricks from you!

Though I do think he needs to learn some basics before he moves onto tricks!

 

[talking robot]

Maybe he'll respond to the threat of losing his place. We've seen players turn around form before (e.g. Shaw last year). If he can't put together a good performance he'll be on the bench again when Lindelof is back, and may stay there. It's on him to perform and prove his value.

 

[Stadjer]

Evidence has shown that he doesn't really help.

1. He doesnt get on any of our corners
2. We have one of the worst set piece records

True, however winning headers isnt exactly Lindelof his best atribute either. On the premier league website is does say that Maguire won 41 aerial battle to Lindelof his 29. Maguire played more but i do think we cant really argue that Maguire is better in the air.

I dont like that Maguire needs to play instead of Lindelof either but im looking for something positive in it. Another positive note, Maguire surely has already played his worst matches this season? I mean, his Leicester and Liverpool performances cant really be outdone right?

 

[OrcaFat]

No, there's a huge chasm between "shit" and "brilliant". I've seen Maguire have some good games. I don't think he's shit. I have never seen him do anything I would call brilliant, but I have seen him do quite a few things that fall under the designation shit. Maguire is a premier league CB, probably somewhere in the middle of the pack. I don't think he's top 10 in the league, and I don't think he's in the bottom 10 either.

Yeah, it’s all relative. He’s not as shit as me for example but I’ve seen “not good enough to play in the prem” posted a few times in this forum. Some people do think he is as shit as that.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

The perception of him being hard done by because he's English is interesting because he's clearly been over promoted to captain based in the "big brave English centre half" rhetoric of the past, may not have even been signed otherwise.

 

[BlueHaze]

We are going to make a £40m loss if they decide to sell him. Absolute disaster. I stood by him for a long time but can't stand him anymore. After each game he plays there's 10 meme videos on the internet of his mistakes. I don't think we've ever in the history of the club had a captain that was referred to as Captain Calamity.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The anti-English bias is an argument that doesn't hold up well and it never did.

Not in general, no. And as a go-to excuse for certain players - again, no. You're right about that.

However...that we have some posters on here with what you could call...I wouldn't call it an anti-English - more like an anti-British/Irish - bias is pretty obvious to me.

Where these posters are actually coming from isn't 100% clear - I don't think they're anti-British/Irish based on any inherent dislike for players of said nationalities (which would be extremely odd, given that they're United fans)...it has more to do with a perception that homegrown/local * players are being hyped up unduly and given more slack than foreign imports either by the club itself or by some fans - or both.

Whatever it is - it's a real phenomenon which can be observed in general and also on here in particular.

* Including players who are "local" in the broadest possible sense, i.e. who are not players from outside the UK/Ireland. But the perceived hype/favouritism of "local" players they attribute to the club and/or fellow fans extend to all British/Irish players.

 

[TSE123]

The posts today about an anti-english bias are absurd. The opposite is true! and you are all part of it right now!
Maguire has cost united (kindly counted) 10 goals this season. He is positionally the worst and slowest defender on the team, maybe only beaten by AWB (the positioning). Any true supporter who wants to win games would also want Maguire to be benched.
I would agree that he is in some bad form right now and he is not at all as bad as he seems this season, BUT he has NEVER been a great defender. He did well for England in euros because he was protected by the (possibly) the best midfield in the world.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

This is probably the best and most logical post on this entire thread. There are way too many muppets who think they know a thing or two about football but they really don't. They just repeat what others say. it's a heard mentality. Maguire has been our best defender since he arrived. He's had dips in form when he's been rushed back from injury, but overall he's been good. What he needs is our supporters standing behind him. His confidence is shot right now. Some will argue that as a professional footballer he should be able to ignore all the abuse. Sorry, but he may be a professional footballer, but he's also human. It's also a hell of a lot easier to ignore the abuse if it's coming from rival fans. But the abuse he's receiving is coming from our own "fans". Bottom line is, if you look for the bad you will find it, and that's what people are doing with Maguire. I've even seen people who have blamed him for the goal Brentford scored. What? He's been a massive scapegoat. Just read through these comments. I agree that he's been out of form and he does need to earn his spot back into the squad. But on form, he's head and shoulders above Lindelof. So what we need is for Maguire to find that form again and it's going to be a hell of a lot easier for him to do if our supporters try lifting him, not kicking him when he's down...

Your post supposes a lot of things that there's no proof for. You say Maguire's confidence is shot because basically his own fans are on him, so does that mean you think Harry is on here somewhere reading comments about himself? It's not fans - rival fans or our own fans - who are giving him abuse that is unsettling him, it's legitimate, reasoned criticism from professional pundits and football writers. Yes, fans on here and elsewhere love to bandwagon, but I'd argue there as many pro-Maguire blinkered fans as there are anti-Maguire blinkered fans. I've read on different forums that Maguire is in the top 3 CBs in the world and that he's equal to VanDyck. Some people actually believe that, but I see no evidence in favor of that argument and hours of evidence against it.

I'd also like to put to bed this notion that somehow when Maguire is in his beast mode he's a titan compared to Lindelof - it just isn't true. Lindelof has always played a certain style as a defender, and it's not the English way of using your head as a battering ram, which is, not coincidentally, one of the things Maguire fans like about Maguire. It works in the England set up because the England team is static. We will likely disagree on England's performance at the Euros and at the Russian World Cup. I saw England being timid and compact and conservative. Shaw's goal against Italy was the only expansive moment in that game. Southgate favors the safety-first method, and it not only isn't that fun to watch, it also loses to a team that decides to play with a little flair and panache. Maguire looks better in the England team because everyone around him is also playing the same way. United does not (and should not) play that way. Lindelof plays more like a continental CB.

People did indeed blame Maguire's mistakes on Lindelof and came up with reasons why Maguire had to cover for Lindelof's deficiencies, nobly sacrificing the purity of his own game to help the team. It's just not true. And we are seeing evidence of this with Lindelof and Varane together. Sometimes people say it's DeGea not patrolling the box that explains why Maguire can't defend, others say it's the weak shield ahead of him in McFred that doesn't give him enough protection, and others say it's poor, scared Lindelof who is afraid to muss his hair by heading the ball. The recurring theme is that it's anyone and everyone but Maguire. Take Maguire out, put Lindelof in, and we are better. I don't agree that Maguire is better than Lindelof - although if you somehow got Lindelof to play in the England team he would look worse than Maguire.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Just a innocent question here. Are you a member of Maguire's rather large family. If so, I admire the way you defend him! He certainly could learn a few tricks from you!

Not even close. I'm just tired of him getting scapegoated all the time. It was the same way with Carrick back in the day. Many thought he was my favourite player. Not even close. Amazing how most of those same people now pretend that they always liked Carrick. I wonder if they will do the same with Harry

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Your post supposes a lot of things that there's no proof for. You say Maguire's confidence is shot because basically his own fans are on him, so does that mean you think Harry is on here somewhere reading comments about himself? It's not fans - rival fans or our own fans - who are giving him abuse that is unsettling him, it's legitimate, reasoned criticism from professional pundits and football writers. Yes, fans on here and elsewhere love to bandwagon, but I'd argue there as many pro-Maguire blinkered fans as there are anti-Maguire blinkered fans. I've read on different forums that Maguire is in the top 3 CBs in the world and that he's equal to VanDyck. Some people actually believe that, but I see no evidence in favor of that argument and hours of evidence against it.

I'd also like to put to bed this notion that somehow when Maguire is in his beast mode he's a titan compared to Lindelof - it just isn't true. Lindelof has always played a certain style as a defender, and it's not the English way of using your head as a battering ram, which is, not coincidentally, one of the things Maguire fans like about Maguire. It works in the England set up because the England team is static. We will likely disagree on England's performance at the Euros and at the Russian World Cup. I saw England being timid and compact and conservative. Shaw's goal against Italy was the only expansive moment in that game. Southgate favors the safety-first method, and it not only isn't that fun to watch, it also loses to a team that decides to play with a little flair and panache. Maguire looks better in the England team because everyone around him is also playing the same way. United does not (and should not) play that way. Lindelof plays more like a continental CB.

People did indeed blame Maguire's mistakes on Lindelof and came up with reasons why Maguire had to cover for Lindelof's deficiencies, nobly sacrificing the purity of his own game to help the team. It's just not true. And we are seeing evidence of this with Lindelof and Varane together. Sometimes people say it's DeGea not patrolling the box that explains why Maguire can't defend, others say it's the weak shield ahead of him in McFred that doesn't give him enough protection, and others say it's poor, scared Lindelof who is afraid to muss his hair by heading the ball. The recurring theme is that it's anyone and everyone but Maguire. Take Maguire out, put Lindelof in, and we are better. I don't agree that Maguire is better than Lindelof - although if you somehow got Lindelof to play in the England team he would look worse than Maguire.

I could hear our fans yelling at him during the game the other day from my TV. If that's coming through for me, it's certainly coming through to him. ALso, just look at his socials. Harry makes a post on Instagram and the replies are full of people swearing at him.

As for him vs Lindelof, on form, it isn't even close. I've done the stats before and I'll do it again. Harry's defensive stats over the course of a season (not just when on poor form) are closer to that of elite defenders. Lindelof isn't even close. But let me guess...you don't like stats when they don't work in your favour right? Doesn't matter. I'm not talking about cherry picked stats to suit an argument. I'm talkning about all stats. In fact, the last time I did the comparison I listed Harry, Victor and VVD and guess who had the best stats out of the 3? Never mind, don't bother. It won't fit your agenda...

As for Lindelof and Verane together, De Gea has been MOTM in most of the matches they've played together. Harry hasn't been in the line up and we are giving up just as many, if not more chances. But again, that doesn't suit your agenda. Carry on...

 

[Gazza]

Some of our fans would rather be right than see us improve. I was also critical of De Gea and have seen several instances where basic keeper skills would prevent a goal or goal scoring opportunity. But I wasn't booing him and calling for his head. If he's on the field I support him. And this year he has been playing really well and actually getting better at the basics I've been so critical of (positioning being the main thing). I've still seen instances where his bravery should be in question, but for the most part, he's been good this year. Maguire on the other hand hasn't even been given a chance. Our supporters act as if he is the one who set his price. Get over it. Be upset with Leicester and blame Maguire for things he's in control of. And stop scapegoating him. My god, the things he gets blamed for are unbelievable. And without him in the line up we've still been conceding just as many chances if not more. Yet the defenders are getting praised. The agenda on the majority of fans is pathetic. they need to start thinking for themselves and stop repeating whatever they are told on The United Stand...

the obsession never ends.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I could hear our fans yelling at him during the game the other day from my TV. If that's coming through for me, it's certainly coming through to him. ALso, just look at his socials. Harry makes a post on Instagram and the replies are full of people swearing at him.

As for him vs Lindelof, on form, it isn't even close. I've done the stats before and I'll do it again. Harry's defensive stats over the course of a season (not just when on poor form) are closer to that of elite defenders. Lindelof isn't even close. But let me guess...you don't like stats when they don't work in your favour right? Doesn't matter. I'm not talking about cherry picked stats to suit an argument. I'm talkning about all stats. In fact, the last time I did the comparison I listed Harry, Victor and VVD and guess who had the best stats out of the 3? Never mind, don't bother. It won't fit your agenda...

As for Lindelof and Verane together, De Gea has been MOTM in most of the matches they've played together. Harry hasn't been in the line up and we are giving up just as many, if not more chances. But again, that doesn't suit your agenda. Carry on...

Yeah, I honestly don’t care about your stats. Maguire isn’t very good. I prefer Lindelof and Varane.

 

[OrcaFat]

Yeah, I honestly don’t care about your stats. Maguire isn’t very good. I prefer Lindelof and Varane.

It’s a bit early to make a call on Varane, maybe, but I’m encouraged. Lindelof’s a good option as back up.

It’s pretty likely Maguire will be a regular. By the objective measures, he’s a good player (albeit in poor form). Some people just don’t rate him of course; and as for Stats and Evidence, who needs ‘em?

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Happy to persist but not as captain. Absolutely doesn’t have the personality to he a United captain. He’s just another player.

 

[OrcaFat]

Happy to persist but not as captain. Absolutely doesn’t have the personality to he a United captain. He’s just another player.

Yeah we could do with a captain worthy of the role. Not sure we have such a player on the books.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It’s zonal.
”Anybody who enters my zone will be thrown to the ground. Anybody!”

This. Shaw entered the Magilla Gorilla Zone and got twatted, as he had been warned.

 

[Jaap]

agree with this, but probably the one value he brought was being an extra body in the box to make it difficult for Brentford, that's about it.

Well, hopefully Rangnick saw that, despite having an extra body at the back, we didn’t look more assured at all.

 

[NoPace]

A move to Newcastle and us recouping 40M or so and getting off his wages makes sense for everyone. He's 28 and seems unlikely to age well but you'd fancy them to stay up with him in a back 5 along with Trippier.

 

[OrcaFat]

A move to Newcastle and us recouping 40M or so and getting off his wages makes sense for everyone. He's 28 and seems unlikely to age well but you'd fancy them to stay up with him in a back 5 along with Trippier.

Why not give him for free? That makes sense for everyone. Maybe not everyone, who knows.

 

[Foxbatt]

Today is the day. Let's see what happens. I think Soucek is still out?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

the obsession never ends.

You're right...your obsession with me never ends

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Yeah, I honestly don’t care about your stats. Maguire isn’t very good. I prefer Lindelof and Varane.

Gee....never saw that coming.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Gee....never saw that coming.

It must really hurt your feelings, or hurt your sense of self-worth, when someone disagrees with you. You can stroke yourself off over Maguire if you like, I won't try and stop you, but why are you so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with you? Life is too short. I've put you on "ignore", by the way, so don't bother responding.

 

[Isotope]

^ The famous "i want to have the last say" tactic.

Anyway, hoping the Slaphead is going back to his good form. I don't care even if he's not my cup of tea player. He's performing well is good for United.

 

[Vaibhav Raj]

He is true captain material! Burglarized Victor's house to make sure he doesn't lose his spot in the squad. If that doesn't scream desire and will to you lot, I don't know what else will.

 

[Red_toad]

We all know he will. West Ham are set piece specialists. Maguire cannot deal with it.

So the player who’s best at defensive headers in our squad cant deal with them? Go figure….

 

[OrcaFat]

Well we might as well get behind the lad for today at least.

 

[Marwood]

Are some of you still going on about his defending in that Spurs game? Mental.

Don't think I've ever seen a United player more unjustifiably disliked.

Di Maria, Sanchez, maybe even Tevez, yeah I got it. Didn't like them either.

But with Maguire it's gone beyond irrational now.

 

[Lentwood]

Unless you for some reason distinguish it from other games where Maguire was poor as a collective, I’m not sure what standards do you have for a centre back. Most of our players have been hit and miss, while Maguire had been consistently tragic with maybe one or two borderline decent performances shoved in-between. It’s not just his fault — our whole team is a mess and our defense is struggling without him as well with Wan-Bissaka & Shaw having very bad seasons. But as an individual he is our worst performer by some margin.

Which games have been 'tragic'?

 

[acnumber9]

Which games have been 'tragic'?

The games he’s played in. If you want particular highlights try re-watching any of the Leicester, Liverpool or Watford games.