Are you for real??
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Maguire is a decent defender who is horrendously out of form. Unfortunately this period has exposed his Achilles's Heel and that can never be rebottled - he will be targeted by quicker more mobile forwards from now on.
He should continue to have a decent Premier League career but he's no VVD or Dias and if we have plans on becoming competitive again he needs replacing asap (as does AWB).
He should go back to an aspiring mid table team, without the immense pressure of United, and hopefully he could regain some form and credibility - both of which he's currently lost.
He should continue to have a decent Premier League career but he's no VVD or Dias and if we have plans on becoming competitive again he needs replacing asap (as does AWB).
He should go back to an aspiring mid table team, without the immense pressure of United, and hopefully he could regain some form and credibility - both of which he's currently lost.
Who's better right now?
Varane? No doubting he's the better player but he cannot be relied upon to play more than three games in a row, and when he has played he too has made mistakes.
Lindelgod? I'm a massive fan of his, but he's not a better defender than Maguire.
Jones? Bailly? Both capable of mistakes and cannot stay fit.
The number of poor touches, slow movement last night was unbelievable. He's not a left sided CD, and never will be.
Are you for real? Anyone with sane mind knows Maguire is not a good CB.
Give you one more stat.
Premier league this season
Games with Maguire: 24, goals conceded: 32, 1.33 per game
Games without Maguire, 5, goals conceded: 6, 1.2 per game.
Is it enough to filter the effect of "different tactics, managers and teammates"?
At the moment I would rather see any of the above starting than Maguire. I think we all know he's capable of much better than he's showing at the moment, but right now he needs to be benched for his good as much as ours.
That's the important bit we can all agree on.
This thread has descended into madness.
Not really, in my view. The sample size without him is quite small, it doesn't take into account who the opponents were, and the difference isn't that big anyway.
I don't think he's good enough though. He's been exposed with poor positioning and agility time and time again and will continue to be targeted.
Virgil van Dijk (21/22): 0.4 tackles per game, 0.9 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
Matip (21/22): 1.3 tackles per game, 1.5 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
you are actually supporting my case - getting higher tackles per game and interceptions per game does not mean a CB a better CB.
Another stat:
Rio Ferdinand career average: 1.2 tackles per game, 1.8 interceptions per game, 0.6 blocks per game
Evans career average: 1.4 tackles per game, 2.0 interceptions per game, 0.6 blocks per game
Evans is not a better defender than Rio Ferdinand either
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His constant rushing out of defence is mind blowing. What is he thinking with that? That is something what slow defender should not do ever. For that you must be mobile and have recovery pace to get back in your position in back line. He just tries to be something which he is not.
He is not leader. He is not defender who can play in high line. He is not ball playing defender (there is a myth how every defender with good technique is a ball playing defender).
He is not bad defender. But he is a defender for deep line where your team defend with 7 players and play on counter attacks. For attacking team he is useless.
He is not leader. He is not defender who can play in high line. He is not ball playing defender (there is a myth how every defender with good technique is a ball playing defender).
He is not bad defender. But he is a defender for deep line where your team defend with 7 players and play on counter attacks. For attacking team he is useless.
Yep that's a player who the pressure has got to.
Whatever Maguire's faults that wasn't in his game when he first came here. He was ultra confident and sensible on the ball.
Just have to hope a completw reset in the summer gets him and others back on track.
I think I'll stop watching live games in two seasons if I have to see his face in like 90% of the games. I don't know he just annoys me to no end, with how he behaves and actual performances.
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Keep on defending your "captain", it's funny how he spent 6 seconds carrying the ball gormlessly and the only thing you're focusing on is "passing the ball to GK". Why not passing it to Varane instead of dribbling around like an idiot while inviting pressure?
This is a shallow analysis. There's a better way to judge a defence now through xGA.
In Maguire's seasons with Leicester their xGA was
1st season 49.9xGA
2nd season 45.2 xGA
Since he left
1st season 44.5 xGA
2nd season 47.7 xGA
So since he left there's been very marginal improvement to to a reduction from the best season he was in their defence to a reduction in xGA from his best season.
The outlier from his time at Leicester in terms of goals against was his first season where they conceded 60 goals against an xGA of 49.9. Using the goalkeeping stats for that season we can see the Kasper Schmeichel was the worst shot stopper in the league that season conceding 7 more goals than expected.
We also know that Maguire won the Players Player of the Season and the Fans Player of the Season awards for Leicester that year so pinning the blame on him for that poor defensive year seems to have shaky foundations, to say the least.
Source is here
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/1631/keepersadv/2017-2018-Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_keeper_adv
FBref don't go back beyond Maguire first season at Leicester but Understat do, although theirs is a more basic model.
In the year the Leicester won the league the most telling part of the xG data is that they conceded only 36 goals against their xGA of 45.02. In contrast to Maguire's first season at Leicester Schmeichel appears to have had a fantastic season in terms of shot stopping conceding 9 less than expected which was the key factor in their impressive goals against numbers.
In the year before Maguire joined, according to Understat their xGA was 51.3. It appears that Schmeichel had another terrible season conceding almost 12 more than expected!
https://understat.com/league/EPL/2016
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It's the keeper though, the players are terrified to pass the ball to him there for reasons self evident in the video. Do you think with Allisson or Ederson in goal Maguire would be doing the same?
It is the keeper and also Maguire. He had an open space to pass to Dalot or Varane but instead turned around, invited pressure, scrambled and had to pass it to De Gea which than shat himself. Varane even pointed out to him where should he pass to. With this level of brainfart, even Phil Jones would have done better. Pretty sure the sole reason we signed him was because Smalling and Jones had too much mistakes between them (and Jones was injury prone). So it's fair to say that he has failed to fulfil the expectation so far without even having to look at captaincy and transfer fee.
Point is if you have a keeper that will participate in playing out from the back then you have the extra man. City and Liverpool's players end up in situations like that and more often than not the have a keeper making the extra man.
Kane and Cancelo on the same team? Manchester Hotspur?
The trouble with those stats both in support and against Maguire, is the amount of games that the players have featured.
If they'd started almost equal amounts, then yeah they'd be a true reflection.
We shouldn't rely on a keeper to rescue us from a situation like that. A simple pass to Varane would have fixed it. If anything if he was so scared to pass to De Gea, why did he do it? De Gea was also at fault but that video is pretty damning really. This is the captain?
It’s something Steve Bruce was really fecking good at, finding a teammate with those headers.
I feel the Maguire's supporters on this forum support him mainly for 2 reasons:
#1 "He plays well in international tournaments" -
it can be easily refuted, many medicore players can play well in international tournaments. Rojo was in World Cup 2014 best XI, Joe Allen was in Euro 2016 best XI, tones of Greek players who were not premier league material were stars in Euro 2004. Poborsky shined in Euro 1996. The set-up of international games are very different from club football
#2 "He is great on stats like interceptions per game, tackles per game, etc"
These stats are misleading (perhaps has misled our scouts and scouts as well)
For example,
Virgil van Dijk (21/22): 0.4 tackles per game, 0.9 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
Matip (21/22): 1.3 tackles per game, 1.5 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
I don't think any person can dispute that Maguire is never a starter material for Man utd. Whichever team he plays in , be it Hull, Leicester or Man Utd, the team concedes tones, this is not a coincidence.
He got good headers, true. He is proactive, true.
But:
He easily got pulled out of position which disorganizes the defence
He is slow and clumsy. He fails to keep his centre of gravity low.
He has lapse of concentration too frequently (10+ big errors per seasons; while a good defender usually only make 1-2 big errors per season)
He is not calm enough as a defender, he just aimlessly head or clear the ball to opponents while he has the chance to chest it down and pass to his teammates
He loves to hoard the ball in his own half and fail to release the ball swiftly which gives time for his opponents to cut the passing lanes for Maguire's teammates. While he has decent passing skill as a CB, he loves to pass the ball too slowly and kill the tempo of attack
He shows no urgency when his team is behind. He has no ability to encourage, motivate or guide his teammates
He loves to foul whenever we got FK or corner kicks.
These made him a standard 80-rated-on-FIFA medicore CB.
#1 "He plays well in international tournaments" -
it can be easily refuted, many medicore players can play well in international tournaments. Rojo was in World Cup 2014 best XI, Joe Allen was in Euro 2016 best XI, tones of Greek players who were not premier league material were stars in Euro 2004. Poborsky shined in Euro 1996. The set-up of international games are very different from club football
#2 "He is great on stats like interceptions per game, tackles per game, etc"
These stats are misleading (perhaps has misled our scouts and scouts as well)
For example,
Virgil van Dijk (21/22): 0.4 tackles per game, 0.9 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
Matip (21/22): 1.3 tackles per game, 1.5 interceptions per game, 0.5 blocks per game
I don't think any person can dispute that Maguire is never a starter material for Man utd. Whichever team he plays in , be it Hull, Leicester or Man Utd, the team concedes tones, this is not a coincidence.
He got good headers, true. He is proactive, true.
But:
He easily got pulled out of position which disorganizes the defence
He is slow and clumsy. He fails to keep his centre of gravity low.
He has lapse of concentration too frequently (10+ big errors per seasons; while a good defender usually only make 1-2 big errors per season)
He is not calm enough as a defender, he just aimlessly head or clear the ball to opponents while he has the chance to chest it down and pass to his teammates
He loves to hoard the ball in his own half and fail to release the ball swiftly which gives time for his opponents to cut the passing lanes for Maguire's teammates. While he has decent passing skill as a CB, he loves to pass the ball too slowly and kill the tempo of attack
He shows no urgency when his team is behind. He has no ability to encourage, motivate or guide his teammates
He loves to foul whenever we got FK or corner kicks.
These made him a standard 80-rated-on-FIFA medicore CB.
So many times last night he'd have the ball and you could see the forwards making runs, a quick pass would be on for that split second.
But it never happens, instead he takes 2/3 more touches, turns and plays it either sideways or back to Dave.
That's where lindelof would have been more effective.
But it never happens, instead he takes 2/3 more touches, turns and plays it either sideways or back to Dave.
That's where lindelof would have been more effective.
How do you think he compares with the likes of Stam, Ferdinand or Vidic? Or even Bruce, Pallister and Johnsen?
Yep, that whole sequence is avoided if the goalkeeper steps out to the right of his goal rather than dropping back onto the line.
People can say pass to Varane all they like but he's covered by Koke in reality.
He could've done better and did dither but I think it's emblematic of a failing in system of playing out from the back we have. You need a keeper to participate. It's not about relying on a keeper to 'rescue' situations, it's how modern football is played.
He’s the embodiment of our failures. The captain of the club is a serial relegation loser. Slowest player at the club and constantly tries things he isn’t capable of.
What a rudderless club we have.
What a rudderless club we have.
There is only going to be pressure playing for United especially in a season where a title challenge is expected. He isn’t the right player
You can't be serious
Let's just say Koke did cover Varane in your reality. How about pass it to Dalot then? why did he turn around? what did he try to achieve exactly? even if we had a GK other than De Gea that is good at ball playing, I would still rather my CB and especially my captain not to do this in an important match.
He’s just never really understood the step up to a club like United. The job is too big for him. From the cupping his ears after a shitty goal to talking about things not being good enough every week then playing shit. This isn’t a place where you can talk and not produce, there’s no where to hide.
Anyone defending this lump now is just wumming. Now it’s the medias fault for maguire playing like a bag of manure? I’ve heard it all…
Well done you can take a screenshot. Now how about watching the actual video where Koke is moving forward and demanding the wing back push forward onto Dalot. By the time the ball reaches either Varane or Dalot they are under pressure. The only pressure free ball on is the goalkeeper but he drops back to his line rather than be a part of the team.You can't be serious
Let's just say Koke did cover Varane in your reality. How about pass it to Dalot then? why did he turn around? what did he try to achieve exactly?
Out of form and out if confidence. The big two unfortunately.
He's a good passer, but yesterday everyone in the crowd was browning themselves when he was on it.
He's a good passer, but yesterday everyone in the crowd was browning themselves when he was on it.
Any context to them stats?
Because trust me, when it comes to football tactics, level of opposition, available personnel all make a massive difference!
Seems weird how you have the stats to backup a viewpoint that none of our managers who have had Maguire in our squad share!!
They all play Maguire when fit, despite apparently having these stats to hand, why do you think that is?
Would it be because we are a less functional defence without him?
Have a look at the interception stats, the tackling stats, the passing stats, that'll give you more of an indication I'd wager.
Well done, you can't see that he didn't even try to pass and instead turned around, as I said let's just say Varane was under pressure from Koke despite him being metres apart, how about passing it to Dalot then? you know, the guy who Varane clearly pointed at. Now how about watching the video yourself. It's obvious that you only see what you want to see. If this was Phil Jones he would have been slaughtered in this forum. I don't know what you see in Maguire but defending this piece of defending is unthinkable to me. This isn't the first time either, remember when he dribbled past Matic for no reason?
Has this muppet come out and given his customary apology and how “we need to do better going forward” bollocks yet. Just waiting for that tweet this afternoon. Fecking Beko Dishwasher.
I literally explained the issue with passing it to Dalot, by the time the ball reaches him he's got the left wing back on him. It's not a case of seeing what I want to see, it's seeing what is actually happening and it's a fact that the only pressure free ball is to the goalkeeper. If the goalkeeper pulls out right of goal like 99% of keepers do, there is no issue whatsoever. There are a lot of things to criticise Maguire for - this isn't one of them.
I disagree. Both him and De Gea were at fault. Let's not defend this "captain" too much and hold him accountable for once.
If Ederson had been in goal, you'd bet he's drop onto the touchline at an angle to receive the ball.
It's obvious Maguire/our defenders have been tasked with building it up from the back at all costs.
There wasn't a pass on at all other than go long, if DDG had moved he would have been on and we could play out from the press.
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