Or maybe just stop repeating the same old doom and gloom posts numerous times in every fecking thread? Everyone gets it we’ve been run like shite for near a decade, we don’t need reminding every 2 minutes.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Yeah, that’s the spirit
the guy that the majority of our fan base wanted and now have is apparently doomed to failure before he’s even started! I’m really optimistic about the coming months and years and believe we’ve finally got the man we so desperately neededProbably best you find a private forum where you can read opinions you want to.
The Caf is a strange place at the moment. So much drama and tiresome moaning.
Surely it’s obvious that EtH is a top class coach and with a full set up of staff implementing his philosophy he will clearly get more from some of the current squad. If he wasn’t able to do that then he wouldn’t be so highly rated? Surely people here want him to do that?
Secondly it’s blatantly obvious we will go into the new season with some new signings. Just because every detail isn’t being played out in full view doesn’t mean we aren’t progressing things behind the scenes. Everyone says they want us to do our business quietly yet mass hysteria develops when we haven’t made a signing on the 1st June.
Just think a bit eh?
Surely it’s obvious that EtH is a top class coach and with a full set up of staff implementing his philosophy he will clearly get more from some of the current squad. If he wasn’t able to do that then he wouldn’t be so highly rated? Surely people here want him to do that?
Secondly it’s blatantly obvious we will go into the new season with some new signings. Just because every detail isn’t being played out in full view doesn’t mean we aren’t progressing things behind the scenes. Everyone says they want us to do our business quietly yet mass hysteria develops when we haven’t made a signing on the 1st June.
Just think a bit eh?
Good. That's the spirit. Hope fans like you stay away from cafe for next one year and come back when we sack him
He can only implement his philosophy if he has the players who are capable of playing that way, its a basic part of football. You can be the best manager in the world, but tiki taka isn't happening with McFred in midfield.
Its also pretty obvious who we are linked with, its just that people are rightly worried about the same mistakes being made by United. Frenkie De Jong feels very Cesc Fabregas, whilst we are linked with other players we know we won't be able to buy with the budget we have. People keep referencing how Liverpool haven't spent a penny yet this window, but they're in a completely different boat to us.
We have to compete with a Conte-inspired Spurs, and Newcastle who will continue to aggressively invest in their sporting project this year. Arsenal are still crap.
I don't see the point in being blindly optimistic after 10 years of false and broken promises. I'll back Ten Hag because he is a manager with a style of play I can get behind, but this last season has been the most challenging one as a fan. For the first time in 25 years of supporting United, I clocked out and stopped watching us. We're now being fed the line that this squad is full of potential and finished 2nd two seasons ago, against a badly depleted Liverpool and Chelsea lead by their own version of Ole in the fat shape of Frank Lampard. On top of that, at least 7 of the players in that squad will or have left this summer, hard to not think we're being taken for anything other than complete d*ckheads.
They're right though.....
This.
We probably need to stop expecting him to justify the squad. If he can then hurray but I'm not going to expect it. Plus it's not even the same team that finished 2nd. Martial and Greenwood are notable absentees from that season, so is Cavani. Three players from the attack that finished 2nd. It's already a different attack. If our transfers pan out we might only have 3-4 starters from the team that finished 2nd. The significance of the 21 season to our present and future is becoming grossly overstated.
We came third the season before we came second… but yes let’s create this narrative that all our players are crap after an absolutely shocking season from everyone.
We haven't won a trophy in 6 years, they're clearly not that great.
Another lazy narrative…Ole had shocking luck in cup draws and was a GK kick away from winning the Europa. It’s fine margins and hardly something to cry about.
Think I’ll just start hitting the ignore button instead.
I think if we sign Nunez, Timber, and De Jong we might be looking at 352 in some games to include Ronaldo and Nunez.
I also think when Ronaldo doesn't play our spine of Nunez, Bruno, Fred and De Jong will be pressing monsters (with DeJong being the more sitting player mopping up) in a 4231, and Timbers pace will be vital when we're pressing so high up the park, and he will more than likely be fine in a 352 as well.
Hope we get these 3 if these are the ones we want, wouldn't be a bad summer.
I also think when Ronaldo doesn't play our spine of Nunez, Bruno, Fred and De Jong will be pressing monsters (with DeJong being the more sitting player mopping up) in a 4231, and Timbers pace will be vital when we're pressing so high up the park, and he will more than likely be fine in a 352 as well.
Hope we get these 3 if these are the ones we want, wouldn't be a bad summer.
Apparently this is all down to covid.
Imagine if the club backs him, the players listen to him and he really starts getting comfortable. He would literally have resurrected one of the biggest club and we could have an era of dominance where our rivals would be well up for the challenge. Right now Pool, City and Spurs are definitely looking on the right track and really putting in a shift. Add to that a seasoned Chelsea and Arsenal doing its thing once every 3 months, I think we can have a super season.
But ofcourse I know the other side to this coin as well. No change in play. Same players playing, just lots of vibes and last minute victories to paper of the cracks.
Lord, give me the strength to be an optimistic fan for another season.
But ofcourse I know the other side to this coin as well. No change in play. Same players playing, just lots of vibes and last minute victories to paper of the cracks.
Lord, give me the strength to be an optimistic fan for another season.
It’s just a convenient excuse created by those that are unable to give Ole even the slightest bit of credit. When you spend 3 years bashing a manager it’s impossible to go back. I expect those same people will be ready and wait for Erik to fail.
A clear style of play, committed players, flowing attacking football and some actual movement off the ball and any position above 6th.
Would be a fantastic first season and what we should be aiming for realistically, anything else would be a bonus.
Would be a fantastic first season and what we should be aiming for realistically, anything else would be a bonus.
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EtH doesn't implement 'tiki taka' which is a way to hold on to possession without purpose. The media and the so called stat men on twitter/YouTube have misled many.
Even Guardiola doesn't like it; he thinks it's pointless. But either way, Ten Hag's style is generally also more direct than Guardiola's.
Agreed.
True.
He will, however, expect players to exhibit more quality on the ball than many of our lot seem capable of. It will be really interesting to see who he reckons can improve.
Absolutely.
Technical quality and physical/athletic capability will improve under ten Hag.
The most important thing is ETH need to get the team fitness to a very high level. This will enormously improve our football with or without new signings.
During Rangnick first few matches when the players bothered to run and press for one half, the football was actually good and entertaining.
There are really lots of potential in the team for ETH to work on. Add in 3 or 4 new signings will improve us further. Next season target should be comfortably in top 4.
During Rangnick first few matches when the players bothered to run and press for one half, the football was actually good and entertaining.
There are really lots of potential in the team for ETH to work on. Add in 3 or 4 new signings will improve us further. Next season target should be comfortably in top 4.
Problem is we thought the same of Jose and Ole.
There's such player power here at the club its killing it. Our board empowers this by rewarding mediocrity.
I never really thought our technical quality would improve under Mourinho or Ole tbf. Mourinho's approach was to play against the ball and not with the ball if we compare him to the likes of ten Hag, Guardiola, Klopp, Luis Enrique etc.
And Ole talked a good game but ended up signing players like Maguire and AWB, which meant we adopted a safety in number approach on the counter attack. We haven't come close to playing a proactive attacking brand of football like say a Ajax, City, Liverpool and Bayern in the last 10 years.
Technically no, but fitness wise I expected more from Jose. It was absolutely and showed a short improvement under Ole only to regress again.
Mourinho was allowed to dismantle the sports science department that was first cultivated under Fergie. So our approach to fitness was lagging behind certain clubs who had embraced technological advancements.
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The fact that people keep repeating this makes it no more true. Before this season we had finished in the top 3 in 3 out of 4 seasons. And we were not the only team playing behind closed doors - and somehow, Wolves didn’t manage to win the league nor City get relegated simply because there were no fans, so this nonsense that the previous season’s second placed finish was not really a second places finish needs to stop.
Fitness and workrate got worse under Jose. Ole at least called the players out for being lazy cnuts, but was never able to do anything about it.
Well let's hope things change in the Arnold era!
Tiki taka doesn't have an actual specific definition. It's just an umbrella term for short one touch control styles hence spin off terms like vertical tiki taka. The stigma around that kind of play doesn't have to exist in the first place. It's not pointless control. The media also don't have to tell people how he plays because most people, even the biggest casuals have seen at least one Ajax game in the last couple years. It's not some top secret info privy to a secret circle.
Imo the best definition is the least complicated because the actual word doesnt actually mean much. It can come in different forms, variations and can even have its principles borrowed in other non-possession styles. It's really just an umbrella term.
I say all this because when ETH starts to implement his philosophy what will be more important than the term will be our fans actually appreciating that we arent simply employing control for the sake of it. Tiki taka being made out to be about holding on to possession "without purpose" is a massive oversimplification of a term already intended to be oversimplified. Teams associated with the term like Spain or Pep's Barca weren't just holding the ball for the sake of it. That would be ridiculous.
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Anyone that knows much about positional play which was first popularised by Rinus Michels in the 1970s, automatically knows that exerting zonal and positional control with the aim of creating numerical superiority doesn't have anything to do with any umbrella term. And ten Hag certainly doesn't prescribe to a made up term that was said to be made up/ popularised by Spanish commentator Andres Montes in 2006.
Here's quotes from Pep Guardiola on the term 'tiki taka'
Guardiola: "I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiki-taka. It's so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition's goal."
"It's not about passing for the sake of it."
"Be yourselves. You need to dig into your own DNA. I hate tiki-taka. Tiki-taka means passing the ball for the sake of it, with no clear intention. And it's pointless."
"Don't believe what people say. Barca didn't do tiki-taka! It's completely made up! Don't believe a word of it! In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak."
"And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch. That's what our game needs to be. Nothing to do with tiki-taka."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ubbish-admits-that-he-loathes-all-the-passing
Here's a quote from Marco Rose's assistant, Rene Maric from his 2014 blog. And it's the reason why coaches like Guardiola and ten Hag shouldn't be labelled as tiki-taka coaches.
Rene Maric: "I would like to conclude by talking about the reason why Guardiola hates the term “Tiki Taka.” This term implies possession of the ball with no purpose, with no movements to disorganize and eliminate opponents. The idea of Tiki Taka is to keep possession for the sake of having possession."
"Sometimes Guardiola will lose a game and people will say he plays this way, keeping the ball but not doing anything with it. Another reason he is accused of this sort of play is that many teams saw his style of play and tried to copy it without knowing the core principles, and in the end wind up with nothing but pointless possession."
"The Spanish National Team that made history from 2008-2012 had times where they played this way, and the players in that team were Guardiola’s players. Maybe similar accusations will arise if Germany start playing poorly now that he coaches Bayern Munich, though they just won the 2014 World Cup with a style of play similar to his Bayern Munich team. In the end, these are not his teams, but other teams that may give this idea of possessing the ball a bad name."
https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12/25/juego-de-posicion-under-pep-guardiola/
Vaguely remember these sentiments alright.
I guess I had it in my head with Jose being known for having strong, physical teams that would generally out work most sides. Saying that the Jose we got was a shadow of his former self and he hasn't developed with the game either.
Agreed mate, we got the out of date version.
A bit off-topic but ...
What nonsense even is this? A GK pen away from winning Europa? Fine margins? Against Villareal?
We lost that because Solskjaer froze. How can you sit and watch your opposite make five changes (half his outfield!) before you even make one? After a long, COVID-blighted season when fatigue becomes a factor. And I don't want to hear he didn't have anything on the bench. Whatever he had, it had to at least be the equal of whatever Emery brought on. Fine margins! Nothing fine about fatigue.
Another thing: you don't choke all those semi's and a final, and simply shrug and call it 'fine margins'. That's a pattern, a feature not a bug. It's no coincidence that we had amongst the highest number of draws in the league either: he would rather keep what he had than risk defeat chasing a win. Which is why I always laughed at that silly unbeaten away record folks would parade around like a trophy. Under SAF, we didn't have those silly records, only W's.
You don't seem to understand what was in that post. The term is meaningless, a consumer slang. All of these quotes support not oppose it.
Have you referred to ten Hag as a tiki taka coach? If you have then you're wrong.
And both Guardiola and Rene Maric are telling you the definition of tiki taka from their own experiences in my previous post. And both men operate as coaches at the elite level. It's not difficult to write 'positional play'
Yes Ole ultimately fell abit short (not a lot though btw) and ultimately couldn’t push us on to the next level. That’s why he was rightly sacked. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t have incredibly bad cup draw luck, which plays a much more important role than people realise and it was undoubtably fine margins in many games. He didn’t do everything right but it’s symptomatic of the caf that he receives zero credit for a decent job.