I'd prefer ETH not to adapt to our terrible performances and form in the 6motnhs before he arrived.
I dont think we can assume United will get 4th place every year if you look at the last 9 years results.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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I dont think we can assume United will get 4th place every year if you look at the last 9 years results.
Nail on the head. Pragmatism is needed without compromising ideals. Playing out from the back is one of ETH’s tenets but the reason why he will be successful with us is that he went away from that to get the team to start winning again without conceding chances. This is HUGE because it builds confidence in the team, in the manager and most of all, the process.
Next summer window the club need to support the manager by signing a top class striker to replace not 1 but 2 players Ronaldo and Greenwood. We also need a CM in FDJ mold. GK and RB are also position that we need to upgrade. Hence, next summer we need minimum 4 players and need major spending again
Our defensive resilience and off the ball output isn't progress?
Some of our possesion play in the first half was the best I've seen for awhile too. With that attack we aren't going to sweep any teams aside.
The requirements to me is the same as when LVG arrived (so the last 8 years). More than results, I want to see United look to be a side that has incredible chemistry, more so than end of season results in the short term of a manager's tenure. That means the team has patterns of play when building out from the back, when on the counter attack, and when facing a low block. That also means that the team has a well drilled coordinated press. Basically a side that resembles Klopp and Pep's sides, even if not the exact same (Ten Hag's style).
The reason I believe that to be more important is because I believe it's easier to build a title winning side from that foundation, compared to a side that even if they have results (Ole's 2nd place, Mou's 2nd place + trophies, and LVG's trophy) that the fanbase accepts, it never materializes into a genuine challenge for the biggest trophies (PL and CL). When Klopp didn't get top 4 at first, I thought they were closer to a title than United because I knew they were playing as a team that can play above their weight. With the right players, with their ability to play above their weight, they would challenge. And they did.
So more than a trophy, or a top 4 finish, I want United to resemble former Ten Hag sides. We got him for that reason. If it's a side that relies on individual talent, we'll probably get a top 4 finish and we can get the smaller trophies (FA Cup, Carabao, EL), but that's never been what it's about. None of our managers have gotten United to play like that.
That's for my expectations of year 1. On the surface it feels lenient, but I think it's the opposite.
Ten Hag has this team winning games so we're no longer in freefall. It's a big improvement compared to where we were in the first 2 matches, and through Ralf's tenure. With a few more results, and with Antony, Casemiro, and Martial able to play, I hope that our performance goes up a notch. Because what I saw in preseason was definitely what I wanted out of a manager.
I trust in Ten Hag to enact his ideal instructions.
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We can see flashes of ETH ball in our pragmatic football now. It will come good when the players are more used it. Give ETH time and once it clicks we will have a very promising future ahead. It was similar with Klopp first season at Liverpool. Flashes of brilliance but inconsistent.
This is nonsensical. Second half the players tired so couldn't play ETH style as effectively.
Feck off.
Agreed. Some people really think football is like playing FIFA with fatigue turned off. Changing a playing style takes time and personnel to implement especially with players totally unfamiliar with the system previously.
I like all our new signings this summer.
On the pitch our defence has improved a lot, we are also making progress in our overall team play and passing. And we are getting vital points in our last 3 games, and team spirit looks good.
Things are starting to look good. I am really getting optimistic for this season. Top 4 is achievable.
On the pitch our defence has improved a lot, we are also making progress in our overall team play and passing. And we are getting vital points in our last 3 games, and team spirit looks good.
Things are starting to look good. I am really getting optimistic for this season. Top 4 is achievable.
Step 1 is to steady the ship this year, put up good standard of performance so that we know who’s up for it and who isn’t. Then reinforce accordingly in the summer as needed. Yes we do need another CM and a striker (FDJ and Kane would be absolute dream), but maybe it’s not as critical as it seems if the current set of CMs and forwards somehow prove they can do the job. Same with RB and GK.
Imagine next season if we added Nkunku, FDJ, a RB and a ball playing GK to this lots.
GK
RB Varane Martinez Malacia
Casemiro FDJ
Antony Bruno/Eriksen Sancho
Nkunku
Exciting times ahead.
What were the issues with this team last season and in the first 2 games of this one?
1. Defensive frailty.
2. Lack of pressing.
3. Lack of confidence.
4. Lack of fighting spirit.
5. Consistent attacking football.
The first 4 issues have been essentially fixed. Confidence will have dramatically improved after 2 clean sheets - it cannot be stressed enough how important this base is. Pressing is a work in progress but it takes months to develope that style where the whole squad knows what is expected. There have also been glimpses of an attacking one-touch and two-touch building from the back but, c'mon, it takes time to build that team chemistry.
Remember how average City and Liverpool were in the first few months with their new manager. We are doing better under ETH already considering the depths we fell to last season.
@el3mel needs to stop playing FIFA.
1. Defensive frailty.
2. Lack of pressing.
3. Lack of confidence.
4. Lack of fighting spirit.
5. Consistent attacking football.
The first 4 issues have been essentially fixed. Confidence will have dramatically improved after 2 clean sheets - it cannot be stressed enough how important this base is. Pressing is a work in progress but it takes months to develope that style where the whole squad knows what is expected. There have also been glimpses of an attacking one-touch and two-touch building from the back but, c'mon, it takes time to build that team chemistry.
Remember how average City and Liverpool were in the first few months with their new manager. We are doing better under ETH already considering the depths we fell to last season.
@el3mel needs to stop playing FIFA.
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ETH is not playing "pragmatic" football. What ETH has done is to find the best, existing players who can play the roles required for his philosophy to work, even though it is not their ideal position. Thus, it is a given that we will see irregularities in the way they play.
I’m surprised (well not really these days) there is any negativity, people didn’t really expect him to come in and change it so quickly did they? Every manager takes time to adapt and the players to adapt to him.
Think it is quite evident that we struggle with keeping the fitness up into the second half playing in a certain way so then drop deeper, this is normal considering we haven’t played this way for a while, it happens with Klopp at Liverpool too.
As many have mentioned, there seems to be a togetherness forming between players, especially in defence, an mot of players are finding some form, Bruno starting to look much better again. We just desperately need a CF who can control and hold up the ball and to get Antony integrated quickly, Elanga should be no where near the starting 11.
Think it is quite evident that we struggle with keeping the fitness up into the second half playing in a certain way so then drop deeper, this is normal considering we haven’t played this way for a while, it happens with Klopp at Liverpool too.
As many have mentioned, there seems to be a togetherness forming between players, especially in defence, an mot of players are finding some form, Bruno starting to look much better again. We just desperately need a CF who can control and hold up the ball and to get Antony integrated quickly, Elanga should be no where near the starting 11.
Yup, there was a short spell in the 80th min onwards where we played one touch passes and pressed Leicester and forced them in making mistakes. Should have scored at least 2 goals during that period if we had some luck.
Think he likes bringing on the midfielders for more control as we lost that in the second halve. Think this is also the reason rashford was kept on over sancho because he has more pace for the break. Can’t wait for Antony to play though we need better decisions in the final 3rd.
Love the fact Ten Hag has created a team spirit and his trying to create a winning mentality. The boys cheer with each other after every block which Ive noticed. Good to see them all fighting for each other.
@el3mel is absolutely off his tits. Ragnick failed to be flexible and look at the shit show he presided over.
After those first two games ETH has absolutely done the right thing, whilst he awaits his new boys Casemiro & Antony to settle in. He’s also done it without probably the star of his pre-season in Martial.
The defence are chest bumping each other after every successful block or tackle, there’s a real pride in keeping a tight ship, since when the feck have we had that?
And the calmness of Casemiro last night showed exactly what we’re missing, I see now why Fred performs for Brazil because even McTominay found a level of calmness next to his new partner that I’ve never before seen from him.
I can’t wait to see a side that starts to brim with confidence with Casemiro and Antony up to speed and with Martial and a more committed Ronaldo fighting for the strikers spot.
There’s a time to demand more from your team with regards to playing the exact brand of football you want, and it’s not when confidence is shot and players are making mistakes left right and centre and getting twatted by the likes of Brentford.
After those first two games ETH has absolutely done the right thing, whilst he awaits his new boys Casemiro & Antony to settle in. He’s also done it without probably the star of his pre-season in Martial.
The defence are chest bumping each other after every successful block or tackle, there’s a real pride in keeping a tight ship, since when the feck have we had that?
And the calmness of Casemiro last night showed exactly what we’re missing, I see now why Fred performs for Brazil because even McTominay found a level of calmness next to his new partner that I’ve never before seen from him.
I can’t wait to see a side that starts to brim with confidence with Casemiro and Antony up to speed and with Martial and a more committed Ronaldo fighting for the strikers spot.
There’s a time to demand more from your team with regards to playing the exact brand of football you want, and it’s not when confidence is shot and players are making mistakes left right and centre and getting twatted by the likes of Brentford.
I believe he is doing the right thing after the first 2 disaster games. We have approached the next 3 with more pragmatism which is good and realistic and also our defense looks solid already after 5 games which is a big plus, I expected it to take much longer. That is exactly what ETH needed to to, steadying the ship, you can't expect us to dominate everyone at this stage. It will take time but what I like the most about our manager is that he adapted and changed things/results quickly, it means he is indeed a smart manager.
With Casemiro and Antony getting into the team we should look better in the near future.
With Casemiro and Antony getting into the team we should look better in the near future.
Our midfield no longer appears to be non existent when a team counters us.
We don't seem to be devoid of confidence.
We're playing much more as a team, players seem to be trying harder to turn a bad pass into a good one, or to make up for a teammates mistake. We're playing much more as a unit.
At times we move the ball really well to get out of tough situations but we are still a bit too prone to erratic passing, particularly in the final third.
Even 10 minutes of looking really slick and 80 minutes of grind, is infinitely better that the 90 minutes of pure incompetence we've seen for the last year.
We don't seem to be devoid of confidence.
We're playing much more as a team, players seem to be trying harder to turn a bad pass into a good one, or to make up for a teammates mistake. We're playing much more as a unit.
At times we move the ball really well to get out of tough situations but we are still a bit too prone to erratic passing, particularly in the final third.
Even 10 minutes of looking really slick and 80 minutes of grind, is infinitely better that the 90 minutes of pure incompetence we've seen for the last year.
Anyone who underplays the value of the three wins in a row needs to consider that EtH has pulled it off while leaving Harry Maguire and Cristiano Ronaldo on the bench. I'd say not many would have envisaged at the beginning of the season that would happen to either, let alone both and he's showing that it's really all about picking the team who can win the match, and not about individuals. It's not about making a power play, instead he's just calmly solved two problems and because we've won the games, no one can really question it. It's kind of quietly brilliant. Just smoked a spliff too. Me I mean, not Erik.
After years of shit football, you just can notice the improvements in all departments. And I loved that he benched all the players who thought can continue like before
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Then let's sack him
100%, a solid defence wins you titles. Attack wins you games. Think most top managers have started by making there team hard to beat, look at pep, he spent so much on there defence. The rest will come. Things are looking positive. Hope we get the 3 points against arsenal to keep the confidence going.
He is tit-less what are you on about?
Haha feck, typo. You can notice
Well executed counter attacking football is a joy to watch at times. Problem is there was no plan b when teams sit back during ole counter attacking times. We should be able to mix and match as needed.
It’s guys like you that doubtfully watch games but quick to judge on here..
What makes you say hardly any signs of progress?
It is literally evident on the pitch.. we have guys like McT having to change gameplay styles from Ole’s reign and now feeding forward passes instead of sideways like he was craving being allowed to cut the lines..
I genuinely really want to know why you’d say no progress? What does progress look like to you?
I’ve only handpicked McT for now just cuz he’s one of the most hated on the caf but I’m only getting started.. you’re most welcome to take the lead and start breaking it down for me on the lack of progress
We deserve the drab from last season because of our annoying whiny fans.
I pity “supporters” like you and wonder what you even gain from following a team so closely. Utter miserable nonsense with unrealistic expectations set so high it’s as if you want them not to be reached so you can continue wallowing in misery.
ETH has given me the confidence to selectively bet on United this season.. At least until bettors and bookies catch on and slash our odds, and even if our football is a real pain to watch at times. Maybe that's where the discount comes from - neutrals probably think we'll run out of luck at some point.
I think it's more than luck. He's a good manager and tactician, and the betting market hasn't fully priced that in.
I think it's more than luck. He's a good manager and tactician, and the betting market hasn't fully priced that in.
Why do we need a new RB? If we disregard his other seasons and treat Dalot as new signings (along with Malacia), I think everyone would agree we'd signed two good young fullbacks.
What is noticeable is the atmosphere. Lisandro brought the celebrating every corner, defensive action or a save thing and it's evident they're on the same page and confident too.
Mourinhio esk last few games, perhaps understandable after the drubbing at Brentford.
Few signs of some good football getting played, progress if you like but yet to see his famed high press possession football.
Maybe he realised after 2 games that we don't have the GK to be able to do it hence why The GK distribution has been majority long for the last few games.
Win the second balls play the percentages don't push up to much and don't take too many risks at the back. A strategy that has worked just about and got our season started. Not sustainable though will come unstuck soon enough if we continue down that route.
Interesting to see if dubrakva comes in and makes a difference and allows us to be braver with the ball and defend higher up allowing to put a high press on. Or we stick with de gea and continue with the risk averese hit and hope strategy.
Few signs of some good football getting played, progress if you like but yet to see his famed high press possession football.
Maybe he realised after 2 games that we don't have the GK to be able to do it hence why The GK distribution has been majority long for the last few games.
Win the second balls play the percentages don't push up to much and don't take too many risks at the back. A strategy that has worked just about and got our season started. Not sustainable though will come unstuck soon enough if we continue down that route.
Interesting to see if dubrakva comes in and makes a difference and allows us to be braver with the ball and defend higher up allowing to put a high press on. Or we stick with de gea and continue with the risk averese hit and hope strategy.
Sure if Dalot comes good this season I’d have no problem starting with him. Just that defensively he has always been abit shaky in the past. Would prefer someone better (ie Timber?).
We will still need a new RB anyway if AWB is sold.
If you only focus on the negative things, you are not able to see the positive things. Basic human phsycology
I hope it continues but so far I like how certain players, Maguire I'm looking at you, aren't just walking into the team. I know people are saying Dalot has been more solid maybe he's being helped by having 2 very good cb teamed with him and not slow Maguire getting caught out of position struggling to get back. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with Rashford now he has Antony available and when Marital is back. The concern is players like Varane who's currently an automatic starter for me are made of glass. You lose him or Martinez and it's a huge drop in quality
I like how he's signed players who have the sort of attitude we expect here. For so long we've had meek cowardly players walking about the pitch, it's nice to see some actual fire. So much for Oles cultural reset it seems ETH is potentially finally the one to do it, even the making them run after the pathetic performance at Brentford, good.
There was a large chunk of the first half where I thought we played very well. The 2nd half was poor for about half of it til Casemiro came in and calmed things down, but I'd like to see us work to where we control an entire game.
You can also start to see signs actual coaching is taking place
I like how he's signed players who have the sort of attitude we expect here. For so long we've had meek cowardly players walking about the pitch, it's nice to see some actual fire. So much for Oles cultural reset it seems ETH is potentially finally the one to do it, even the making them run after the pathetic performance at Brentford, good.
There was a large chunk of the first half where I thought we played very well. The 2nd half was poor for about half of it til Casemiro came in and calmed things down, but I'd like to see us work to where we control an entire game.
You can also start to see signs actual coaching is taking place
Don’t really get the negativity about our style of play. We haven’t scored many but the quality of our goals is undeniable. If anything, what we really need is a few more low quality goals. Deflections, or a corner going in off someone’s arse. We’ve had to do a fair bit of defending (which can happen when you’re away from home) but when we’re on the ball we’ve played a lot of good football.
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Erik's also basically changed the whole back four from last season. Well done.
Negativity here is just ridiculous, ETH is making very good progress with the squad and these three wins in a row with strong defensive displays and almost three clean sheets ( Liverpool were lucky to score ) are a great foundation to build up something good.
People who are moaning are simply not realistic - you can't go from a team that was horrendous, without confidence and overrun by almost every PL side to the team having full control of the ball and press all over the pitch for all 90 minutes. We already saw some patterns of ETH style against Southampton and the first half against Leicester was one of the best for a long time in terms of movement, options on the ball, moving the ball with confidence even through tide spaces, coordinated pressing and getting the ball back very quickly while also he remains pragmatic enough to earn two wins without conceding away from home.
The team will get more and more familiar with his style, it just takes some time rather than going to play like City straight away. Also, players that made the biggest difference are his choices, not Rangnick recommendations, our board's shiny toys, scouting targets, or Caf's hipster picks - Malacia, Martinez, and Eriksen. And our biggest acquisitions in the summer haven't even started yet.
So, give this guy time. Really hope he will have fully fit Martial and Ronaldo soon because without them we miss both quality and quantity upfront and when you see that energy level drop in the second half I just want him to have options from the bench to maintain at the same level throughout most of the game.
People who are moaning are simply not realistic - you can't go from a team that was horrendous, without confidence and overrun by almost every PL side to the team having full control of the ball and press all over the pitch for all 90 minutes. We already saw some patterns of ETH style against Southampton and the first half against Leicester was one of the best for a long time in terms of movement, options on the ball, moving the ball with confidence even through tide spaces, coordinated pressing and getting the ball back very quickly while also he remains pragmatic enough to earn two wins without conceding away from home.
The team will get more and more familiar with his style, it just takes some time rather than going to play like City straight away. Also, players that made the biggest difference are his choices, not Rangnick recommendations, our board's shiny toys, scouting targets, or Caf's hipster picks - Malacia, Martinez, and Eriksen. And our biggest acquisitions in the summer haven't even started yet.
So, give this guy time. Really hope he will have fully fit Martial and Ronaldo soon because without them we miss both quality and quantity upfront and when you see that energy level drop in the second half I just want him to have options from the bench to maintain at the same level throughout most of the game.