Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

[Isafim]

The system of measure that you have all put in place is designed purposely so that Messi can literally never fail. Ronaldo's strengths are given no weight what-so-ever. Ronaldo making a run is using his vision to read the game, timing to create the opportunity and skills to control the pass. Why is the passer automatically doing more? It's bullshit. Without creative and skillful off the ball movement there would be no pass to begin with. In the analysis of a game Ronaldo's movement, placement and timing isn't valued or statistically tracked. Even though this is a shared proposition. This is just one example of how judging a player is skewed towards Messi and the list goes on.

Have you seen Ronaldo operate in a crowded midfield? There is a plethora of examples where he drops back, plays short concise passes, links up, penetrates with his dribbling, makes outlet passes to the wing, side-steps defenders, etc. There is no skill or ability he lacks to operate in deeper areas. He looks just as natural or accomplished as any true midfielder when he moves to the center. He has dominated the wings his entire career. These attributes which makes him successful do not diminish in the middle of the field.

But what you do is overvalue Messi's contributions in a possession based team compared to Ronaldo's contributions in a direct/counter-attacking team. I don't believe Messi has the speed, stamina or strength to run or move off the ball like Ronaldo chasing down balls and sprinting down the flanks an entire game.

 

[Shinjch]

Just great that we got to enjoy him on the big stage again, and he turned it on as he usually does. An incredible talent, but with a mindset and drive to match. Best to just enjoy him while he is still around, may be a while until another like him comes along.

 

[fallengt]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

The euro where Portugal faced European giants like Switzerland, Poland, Wales in knockout stage? Where Ronaldo destroyed Wales with his only goal in the whole knockout stage? Player of tournament indeed
Or the Nation League where he was absent for the most part of it?

 

[Daydreamer]

Don’t ever talk about it again and don’t voice your opinion.

What a remarkable way of thinking.

This is making my point on here more and more.

You win.

I think Sporting’s take on Messi/Ronaldo is disingenuous and wildly inconsistent… but I think he has a point here.

The idea of him being threadbanned because he doesn’t share the majority opinion is crazy. We can laugh at his views (I have), but there’s no need to silence him. He’s not being abusive, just (in my opinion) somewhat self-contradictory.

 

[the_cliff]

I think Sporting’s take on Messi/Ronaldo is disingenuous and wildly inconsistent… but I think he has a point here.

The idea of him being threadbanned because he doesn’t share the majority opinion is crazy. We can laugh at his views (I have), but there’s no need to silence him. He’s not being abusive, just (in my opinion) somewhat self-contradictory.

I agree. This thread would be boring without Sporting's takes.

 

[Swordsman]

There's literally zero debate one can make for Ronaldo over Messi.

He trumps him in pretty much everything. Ignoring the quite obvious fact he's simply a better footballer, he's now easily a greater footballer too. That was the only real argument Ronaldo fans had to propel him over Messi all-time, and that's now dead in the water after this WC.

The only 2 players you can make arguments for are Pele and Maradona. And those arguments will be tough because of the extremely different eras all 3 played in.

If you value longevity, Pele's got a better argument than Maradona.

If you value peak performance, Maradona's got a better argument than Pele.

Really depends on the criteria. All 3 of them sit on their own table for me with a clear gap to the players in the tier below them.

Ronaldo can keep harping he got 5 ucl medals.

 

[Lord SInister]

I think Messi is above Maradona for longevity, his g+a and trophies is far better, plus on the ball I can't imagine better than Messi, but Maradona was perfect too.

Pele did more at international level, with a perfect team in the 1958 admittedly which helps, but still 3 WCs. 1958 you had 16 teams, then a QF Semi and Final we forget how it was also easier and less likely for upsets.

Still that's down to football not being as developed, the money wasn't in the game then.

Hard to compare between Pele and Messi directly but I put Messi as the greatest I've seen where its just so much more competitive now in modern football.

For me it's 1. Messi 2. Pele 3. Maradona

But of course very hard to compare because none of us really saw much of Pele its a different era, I dont think its an undeniable fact its a preference. Based on what I've seen of them all I just can't conceive of a better footballer than Messi.

Pele was far superior to Maradona in club level tbh. It is just Eurocentric footballing history, because of which exploits of that great Santos team is brushed aside.

Pele vs Maradona logically should never have been a debate. Yes Maradona was an exceptionally talented player, but when it comes to accomplishments he is nowhere near Pele. People argue Pele played for better teams, yes he did, yet just like Messi or Cristiano or Di Stefano or Cruyff, he was so ahead of everyone else in the team. As they say being a big fish in a big pond, not as easy as some people try to make it. Playing with world class players, and still making yourself a level above them, is not something easy.

 

[Pocho]

Jordan, Messi, Brady, Federer, Hamilton

Mount Rushmore

 

[Real Name]

No ban for Sporting, not a chance, keep him for comedy sake.

Nations league more competitive than Copa.

If Ronaldo was Brazilian and won the Copa he'd dish NL like a worst competiton ever but the fact Ronaldo won it makes it far bigger.

 

[Swoobs]

No ban for Sporting, not a chance, keep him for comedy sake.

Nations league more competitive than Copa.

If Ronaldo was Brazilian and won the Copa he'd dish NL like a worst competiton ever but the fact Ronaldo won it makes it far bigger.

Think he said somewhere in this thread that Euros and World Cup are equals or something, his 1/1 vs 2/4 nonsense so small time, its funny. Got schooled when someone mentioned the same logic in the UCL, came out swinging as well.

At this point I am convinced that it is better to either not challenge him directly or even just agree with him, for the sake of his mental wellbeing. His gospel is perhaps even a form of escape from reality, sometimes people need that and it is more common than people think

 

[RacingClub]

At this point I am convinced that it is better to either not challenge him directly or even just agree with him, for the sake of his mental wellbeing. His gospel is perhaps even a form of escape from reality, sometimes people need that and it is more common than people think

Yeah to be honest he's quite obviously not mentally well.

He's the football equivalent of a Qanon follower, he was probably chanting "Stop the count" after Mbappes opening goal in the shootout.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The system of measure that you have all put in place is designed purposely so that Messi can literally never fail. Ronaldo's strengths are given no weight what-so-ever. Ronaldo making a run is using his vision to read the game, timing to create the opportunity and skills to control the pass. Why is the passer automatically doing more? It's bullshit. Without creative and skillful off the ball movement there would be no pass to begin with. In the analysis of a game Ronaldo's movement, placement and timing isn't valued or statistically tracked. Even though this is a shared proposition. This is just one example of how judging a player is skewed towards Messi and the list goes on.

Have you seen Ronaldo operate in a crowded midfield? There is a plethora of examples where he drops back, plays short concise passes, links up, penetrates with his dribbling, makes outlet passes to the wing, side-steps defenders, etc. There is no skill or ability he lacks to operate in deeper areas. He looks just as natural or accomplished as any true midfielder when he moves to the center. He has dominated the wings his entire career. These attributes which makes him successful do not diminish in the middle of the field.

But what you do is overvalue Messi's contributions in a possession based team compared to Ronaldo's contributions in a direct/counter-attacking team. I don't believe Messi has the speed, stamina or strength to run or move off the ball like Ronaldo chasing down balls and sprinting down the flanks an entire game.

What the feck is this?

The system of measure isn't geared to suit Messi. Messi is simply a better footballer who offers both prolific goalscoring and is a creative / playmaking force of nature.

 

[alexo1505]

Jordan, Messi, Brady, Federer, Hamilton

Mount Rushmore

l o l at federer hes PR machine like Ronaldo. Nadal and mostly Djokovic are clearly better players with better resumes, better h2h etc

 

[Real Name]

Think he said somewhere in this thread that Euros and World Cup are equals or something, his 1/1 vs 2/4 nonsense so small time, its funny. Got schooled when someone mentioned the same logic in the UCL, came out swinging as well.

At this point I am convinced that it is better to either not challenge him directly or even just agree with him, for the sake of his mental wellbeing. His gospel is perhaps even a form of escape from reality, sometimes people need that and it is more common than people think

This amount of idolizing someone you never met is disturbing. There are Ronaldo fans and there's Sporting. If Ronaldo burned his house down he'd say he did it like a goat he is and has better statistics of burning houses than Messi, 4 in 6. Messi only burnes houses, ronaldo burnes buildings.

 

[Swoobs]

What the feck is this?

The system of measure isn't geared to suit Messi. Messi is simply a better footballer who offers both prolific goalscoring and is a creative / playmaking force of nature.

Probably still living in 2007/2008, watching the most exciting version of CR7. Even that version is no match for the 2009-2015 versions of Messi but whatever

 

[Ish]

What the feck is this?

The system of measure isn't geared to suit Messi. Messi is simply a better footballer who offers both prolific goalscoring and is a creative / playmaking force of nature.

Not even worth responding to some, amol. They’re going through a really difficult time, much like their idol.

 

[Revan]

Jordan, Messi, Brady, Federer, Hamilton

Mount Rushmore

Federer was not better than Djokovic or Nadal. I love him, and he might be my favorite sportsman ever, but it is very hard to argue that he was better than them, especially Djokovic.

Is Hamilton considered better than Schumacher?

No debate for Messi and Jordan.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

 

[Revan]

The system of measure that you have all put in place is designed purposely so that Messi can literally never fail. Ronaldo's strengths are given no weight what-so-ever. Ronaldo making a run is using his vision to read the game, timing to create the opportunity and skills to control the pass. Why is the passer automatically doing more? It's bullshit. Without creative and skillful off the ball movement there would be no pass to begin with. In the analysis of a game Ronaldo's movement, placement and timing isn't valued or statistically tracked. Even though this is a shared proposition. This is just one example of how judging a player is skewed towards Messi and the list goes on.

Have you seen Ronaldo operate in a crowded midfield? There is a plethora of examples where he drops back, plays short concise passes, links up, penetrates with his dribbling, makes outlet passes to the wing, side-steps defenders, etc. There is no skill or ability he lacks to operate in deeper areas. He looks just as natural or accomplished as any true midfielder when he moves to the center. He has dominated the wings his entire career. These attributes which makes him successful do not diminish in the middle of the field.

But what you do is overvalue Messi's contributions in a possession based team compared to Ronaldo's contributions in a direct/counter-attacking team. I don't believe Messi has the speed, stamina or strength to run or move off the ball like Ronaldo chasing down balls and sprinting down the flanks an entire game.

You would have had a point if Messi wasn’t as good as Ronaldo (if not better) at scoring.

The thing is, they are pretty much equal at scoring, with Messi being quite better at assisting and way better at play making. The only argument in favor of Ronaldo is that he was better at UCL (while Messi better in the league), and with UCL being more important than the league, there was still an argument (especially when Ronaldo had won Euros but Messi had no international trophy). Unfortunately for him, Messi pretty much shut it down the debate when he won Copa (having better performances than Ronaldo ever had in international competitions), and made the debate absurd after winning World Cup in one of the finest performances by a single player.

I love Ronaldo, but he never managed to score or assist in KO stage of 5 World Cups. That is why he belongs in the next tier, with Di Stefano and Cruyff, instead of the top one with Messi, Pele and Maradona.

 

[Revan]

This amount of idolizing someone you never met is disturbing. There are Ronaldo fans and there's Sporting. If Ronaldo burned his house down he'd say he did it like a goat he is and has better statistics of burning houses than Messi, 4 in 6. Messi only burnes houses, ronaldo burnes buildings.

Not near as disturbing as people who diminish another great. Just in the last few pages we had posters calling Ronaldo a fraud, or not even belonging on the next tier of footballers, or being more than one tier below Messi, or not having contributed in Portugal’s Euro trophy, or having had better teammates at Portuga during his career than Messi with Argentina. Totally objectively false.

I think there are way more Messi fans who hate Ronaldo and diminish his success than the other way around. Messi’ fans are much more bitter which is weird considering that he is the better player of the two, and at this stage it is a vast majority consensus opinion, almost unanimous.

There is no debate, Messi is the GOAT and the better of the two. So they should stop pretending that Ronaldo was just an ok player, no need for that.

 

[Amazing Santos]

Imagine how good he would have been without years of growth hormones.

 

[r1z3mu]

What the feck is this?

The system of measure isn't geared to suit Messi. Messi is simply a better footballer who offers both prolific goalscoring and is a creative / playmaking force of nature.

And this is why Messi on another level because he is not just simply great goal scorer. That passing ability and vision is what makes Messi unique. He will draw 2-3 players and then find passing lane nobody could even predict - it's just amazing. How often we hear this - "how did he do it"?

 

[Real Name]

Not near as disturbing as people who diminish another great. Just in the last few pages we had posters calling Ronaldo a fraud, or not even belonging on the next tier of footballers, or being more than one tier below Messi, or not having contributed in Portugal’s Euro trophy, or having had better teammates at Portuga during his career than Messi with Argentina. Totally objectively false.

I think there are way more Messi fans who hate Ronaldo and diminish his success than the other way around. Messi’ fans are much more bitter which is weird considering that he is the better player of the two, and at this stage it is a vast majority consensus opinion, almost unanimous.

There is no debate, Messi is the GOAT and the better of the two. So they should stop pretending that Ronaldo was just an ok player, no need for that.

Nah. Its still more disturbing. But I agree about absurdity of calling Ronaldo a fraud. Also both camps are as irritating as each other.

 

[Pocho]

l o l at federer hes PR machine like Ronaldo. Nadal and mostly Djokovic are clearly better players with better resumes, better h2h etc

of course is my humble opinion, you can have an argument in favour of Lebron as well.

 

[RacingClub]

Imagine how good he would have been without years of growth hormones.

Yeah we all know that growth hormones are amazing for first touch, ball control and play making ability.

 

[Pocho]

Nah. Its still more disturbing. But I agree about absurdity of calling Ronaldo a fraud. Also both camps are as irritating as each other.

Yes. But one of them have the excuse that they’re right though.

 

[JanK]

Sporting and Amadeus are the legends of this forum. Thank you for participating!

 

[Real Name]

Yes. But one of them have the excuse that they’re right though.

That is true.

 

[TheNewEra]

Great montage of the 22 WC

 

[Swoobs]

Imagine how good he would have been without years of growth hormones.

It is really sad for the Messi haters when they are reduced to this growth hormones argument. Even Sporting’s argument are less sad than this lul

 

[Real Name]

Imagine how good he would have been without years of growth hormones.

Yeah, debate about who's better is basically about growth hormones or not, without those he would have left Ronaldo in the dust long, long time ago.

 

[Cassanata99]

Yeah we all know that growth hormones are amazing for first touch, ball control and play making ability.

I mean, you're completely discounting the fact that football is a physical game too. The fact that he was given the hormones to aid his development in the first place, is pretty indicative of the importance it held for the future of his career in order for Barcelona to agree to pay for the treatment.

 

[Pocho]

Right now

 

[jm99]

For me, Ronaldo's record in the cl knockouts is why I have him as the best, it's by some distance the highest level of football in the world, and Ronaldo is miles ahead of anyone else in it, with that difference getting more pronounced if you take out the last 16. Messi was definitely a better league player and while neither ever replicated their club level at international, this tournament for Messi was enough to make him a better international player. But I think the performances in the later rounds of the champions League hold more weight personally.

But Ronaldo looks like he's done and Messi could have another few years at PSG so that's still possible. I realise this opinion isnt shared by everyone but it's the same way I've felt for years and why messi is far clear of maradona and Pele, because what you do over 15 years of your career is a better indicator of ability than 7 games every 4 years

 

[Jund]

Up there with the greatest, yes. The greatest...there's no "greatest" in a team sport. There are so many variables to this it's not even possible to even imagine pointing to someone and saying "He's the greatest."

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Why because you said so?

Messi isn’t even the best Argentine of all time let alone the best player of all time.

Ronaldo Could have retired at 30 and been in the GOAT debate.

Greatness.
I’ll
ronaldo is 1-1 in finals for his country

If nation league is counted (probably more competitive then copa) he is 2-1

Messi is 2-4…..

2….and ….4 and his only copa win was the Covid cup with no fans.

And yet chile and Uruguay smacked Ronaldo out of various tournaments. He would struggle a lot in Copa America.
At least Messi is able to get to the finals.

hows Ronaldo’s world Cup record by the way? Far worse than anyone else in top 10 all time? Face, Messi winning WC has destroyed any chance of Ronaldo having an argument for GOAT. It’s over. Deep down, you know it. It’s done a a dusted. Ronaldo will always be behind Messi,
Pele and maradonna. He’s been an absolute non factor in knockout rounds despite playing in five World Cup. He’s nowhere near the GOAT.

 

[RacingClub]

I mean, you're completely discounting the fact that football is a physical game too.

I'm not really, it's just the last actions of a desperate fanbase (Ronaldo fanboys or whatever you want to call them) pulling the hormone stuff out of their arse cause their hero is in the dust once and for all!

 

[Righteous Steps]

Jordan, Messi, Brady, Federer, Hamilton

Mount Rushmore

I would never put a man who plays a sport only really played by two countries on a sport mount rushmore, even Formula 1 driving is a very closed market in terms of participation, I didn’t know anyone growing up who had the resources to be a professional formula 1 driver, but everyone I knew played Football.

A sport mount rushmore should be from world sports, not NFL or Formula 1.

So Pele and Ali above Federer Hamilton and Brady for me.

 

[Revan]

I would never put a man who plays a sport only really played by two countries on a sport mount rushmore, even Formula 1 driving is a very closed market in terms of participation, I didn’t know anyone growing up who had the resources to be a professional formula 1 driver, but everyone I knew played Football.

A sport mount rushmore should be from world sports, not NFL or Formula 1.

So Pele and Ali above Federer Hamilton and Brady for me.

Nah, he is the most famous but Sugar Ray Robinson is pretty much as a consensus choice for the greatest boxer ever as it can be.

 

[Vialli_92]

For me, Ronaldo's record in the cl knockouts is why I have him as the best, it's by some distance the highest level of football in the world, and Ronaldo is miles ahead of anyone else in it, with that difference getting more pronounced if you take out the last 16. Messi was definitely a better league player and while neither ever replicated their club level at international, this tournament for Messi was enough to make him a better international player. But I think the performances in the later rounds of the champions League hold more weight personally.

But Ronaldo looks like he's done and Messi could have another few years at PSG so that's still possible. I realise this opinion isnt shared by everyone but it's the same way I've felt for years and why messi is far clear of maradona and Pele, because what you do over 15 years of your career is a better indicator of ability than 7 games every 4 years

Yeah being a tapin merchant. A box player can't be better than someone who plays in midfield and attack while matching or bettering Ronaldo for scoring.

It's a simple eye test that is needed and nothing else to determine that Messi Plays to a level Ronaldo could never come close to.