Club Sale | It’s done!

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Berbaclass

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If Qataris would come for Ajax there would be blood on the streets. I rather would have another 18/19 CL campaign ending in tears on the edge of a CL final than winning one becasue of middle east oil money.
There is already a lot worse than blood on the streets of Amsterdam :wenger:
 

AlPistacho

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It identifies areas of expenditure necessary, such as infrastructure, stadium, the womens team, that Ineos studiously ignore.
we all know why INEOS ignore those areas and we all know that if bid proposals were reversed suddenly those supporting INEOS would view billions on debt as very very bad absolutely unacceptable, and no mention of the stadium, training and women’s team as a huge negative from the Qatari bid.
 

Raoul

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
 

welshwingwizard

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Literally, the only reason why the Qataris are the popular choice is because 'they have loads of money'. Do you really think the majority of people have actually read the statements etc.? No, their thought process can be simplified to this:

Qataris make bid + Qataris extremely rich = Qataris are the best

Most of them have probably never even heard of Ineos/Ratcliffe.
It's not. It's because the ineos bid didn't talk about getting rid of the debt. Most fans would probably favour them as long as we knew we would be debt free and there was commitment to infrastructure, especially stadium (even if using borrowed money as at least we are getting an asset for the debt).
 

Berbaclass

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The funny thing is, lets ask the Ajax fans the same question after 10 years of being bled dry by their owners, lack of leadership, not winning the league and having a handful of CL appearances.

Easy to make bold claims when everything is perfect.
19 years.
 

NK86

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I’ve umm’d and ahh’d over this for the last few days since the Qatar interest has manifested itself, and seemingly every 5 mins spent thinking about my personal opinion on the matter, I’m just left torn.

I think it’s great that so many people are highlighting their human rights record & lack of support for women and the gay community - but, then what? What are you expecting to happen after that?

It kind of reminds of the reaction when something overtly racist happens - like Rashford, Saka & Sancho missing their pens in the Euro Final and the trolls came out in force, but as a country we all banded together to stomp out racism, and make it clear that it’s wrong. Great. Then what? Not much else you can do beyond that right, you just have to live life knowing that people who hold such views live among us and could be in positions of power. It’s disappointing but life can’t stop.

I’ve spent the last 10 years or so being part of social movements, primarily rooted in Black & LGBTQ progression - and one of the hardest parts about it is, you can care so deeply about an issue, and put your heart, soul & every ounce of effort into wanting to see change - and it still won’t move the needle, because the people who have the power to make change, are often the very people you’re fighting against or the people who are indifferent.

So yeah, it’s great to see so many people pushback on a country with an ideology that isn’t accepting of all people - but I want you all to realise that you’re going to have to live with the disappointment that your good intentions & moral code isn’t enough.
Maybe one day in the future Qatar will change its laws on human rights & equality, hopefully soon, however this guy buying Manchester United, will not have an impact on that. The best that we can hope for, is that he personally doesn’t believe gay people & women are less equal, in the same way I have to try and believe everyone I come across isn’t racist.
Side note: Sir Jim being a tax-haven living Brexit voting gammon doesn’t sit well with me either, (though obviously doesn’t compare) there’s no such thing as a good billionaire.

If Al Thani buys us, he has to invest in the women’s team & their facilities, and also make it clear that everybody regardless of their sexuality is a part of this club. Beyond that, I’m not expecting much else.

I don’t know if that makes sense, and maybe in another 5 mins my mind will change again - but ultimately, the closest thing I can compare the feeling to, is that reluctant acceptance that people treat others differently for things they have no control over, and you can’t change their mind about it. Anybody who’s part of an oppressed minority can probably relate.

On to the football side of things, we don’t need someone who needs to falsify sponsorships in order for us to generate revenue. Even after 10 years of almost no success we generate £700M in revenue, and without the glazers & their debt, I calculate approximately £150-200m that we could spend on a yearly basis - depending on where we finish in the league - without needing to dip into cash reserves. And for a manager like EtH that’s more than enough.
That being said, the glazers have clearly sucked us dry, so whoever does come in - needs to pay off the debt, not just move it via accounting. And, for the first window at least inject some cash for us to spend - we can be self-generating afterwards. Sir Jim’s offer is the least appealing based on this.

The others are nice to haves - yes it would be nice to have a new stadium, new facilities etc but it won’t stop any on-field success we have, it would simply make sure we’re not falling behind our competitors in those spaces.
If someone comes in & makes us debt free, we can still finance a new stadium & upgrade our facilities, because EtH won’t need to spend £200m every single year - so a new stadium might take 8 years instead of 3-5 for example.

I’ll wait until more details come out, SJR needs to be more transparent about how he’s raising his funds & how he plans on investing in the club if he’s having to loan from 2 different banks - both of which are also very questionable.

I like the Progress Pride flag that Arsenal have in their stadium, maybe we could get a banner with that flag hung in the stadium, that would be great.
Excellent post. Very well put.
 

Kammy26

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
sounds like the glazers
 

redshaw

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We'd have to press Jim on how the stadium and surrounding area can be improved/built, how this is financed and how will it affect summer spending.

Debt isn't inherently bad but there's lots of ways it can be depending on many factors. We had all this 101 business talk how this is normal, don't be scared of debt some fans said when the Glazers sunk the club into debt. It's had a huge effect and really when people talk about debt in purchases it's usually to the beneficiary of the owner to make use of money elsewhere and many people/companies get consumed with debt and go into administration or scrape along getting nowhere fast over decades. All depends how you end up paying in interest then the debt each year, the rates and how it affects your yearly operation. Success can offset that but United have been poor and missed out so much CL, sponsorship and other prize money while needing to spend more just to keep tabs with the increasing pressure of clubs around us.

We need a breakdown of how much the club is paying now, how much we'd be paying directly or indirectly through Ineos what kind of interest and debt do we need to pay for stadium/facility improvements, does this extend to the womens side.

I suspect we'd be heavily hampered and in 5-10 years time time we'll be holding the short straw while Pool and Spurs take on middle eastern backing.

To those who keep parroting debt is fine. United have paid around 800m in interest, once rising to 16% and pay around 20m per year today and still have 500m to pay back. United have been hugely hampered just so a family could own United. We've missed out on so much money that could've paid for 90k stadium and area revamp twice over in the last 17 years. We're also facing debt free state clubs that will probably increase. United currently pay around 40m per year in interest and dividends.

Debt has strangled Manchester United, we had no reason to go into debt unless someone that couldn't afford us had some selfish desire to and could convince the banks. Plunging us into debt and strangling us only helped the Glazer family funds elsewhere. We didn't need that type of owner.
 
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Ahriman

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
How is it obvious that that's what they're going to do?

Perhaps they mean what they say, it's not that far fetched. I personally doubt that they will skimp when it comes to investment in the club.
 

Dion

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I see the tactic is to try and convince the United fan base everyone is telling them they can't have Qatari owners, so we should all tell them to feck off and embrace them.

Absolutely gross, the most basic divide and conquer tactic.
 

Rightnr

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“ blood on the streets” :lol:
In reality, some people will go to Dam Square and nothing will happen. All the hoopla doopla around the WC and the king went to 'represent' in Qatar.
 

Giggsy13

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If Qataris would come for Ajax there would be blood on the streets. I rather would have another 18/19 CL campaign ending in tears on the edge of a CL final than winning one becasue of middle east oil money.
Would you be ok with a Dutch or European billionaire?
 

Raoul

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sounds like the glazers
The Glazers were worse in that the fans actually did justifiably revolt which kept them on the backfoot for upwards of a decade, which snuffed out any chance they would ever be accepted, even if they did somehow manage to deliver.
 

enghuei

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
That is your own assumption.
 

NK86

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19 years.
I chuckled when that Ajax fan was thumping his chest as if he was making a winning point. They are the richest club in their league by a mile. They have excellent facilities and are run very well by their current establishment. They win their league more often than not while playing good football.

I think we should gift them a Glazers takeover once they get their billions from us. Would be fun watching that very lot.
 

Nogbadthebad

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
Na.

Qatar, UAE and Saudi Royals have spent the last 50 years in dick waving contests about who has the most and the best. The last 20 years it has been ever bigger yachts.

Now its football teams.

The one thing you can absolutely guarantee about a qatar onwer is that they will want to be ahead of city and newcastle.
 

Rightnr

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
While you may very well be right, this is all conjecture.

What guarantees do we have Ratcliffe won't be gone in 10 years and then we end up in a worse position, possibly worse than now.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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I see the tactic is to try and convince the United fan base everyone is telling them they can't have Qatari owners, so we should all tell them to feck off and embrace them.

Absolutely gross, the most basic divide and conquer tactic.
No, fans are simply reading the statements of both potential buyers outlining their plans and vision for the club and making their minds up based on that.
 

Berbaclass

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Na.

Qatar, UAE and Saudi Royals have spent the last 50 years in dick waving contests about who has the most and the best. The last 20 years it has been ever bigger yachts.

Now its football teams.

The one thing you can absolutely guarantee about a qatar onwer is that they will want to be ahead of city and newcastle.
Shouldn't any potential owner? City are the current benchmark.
 

JustinC00

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In what way? United won't pay for it anymore. Why does it matter to you if the company pays it off like they pay off their own debts? It is irrelevant to the club.
The debt will still be on the club because the debt isn't on the Glazers and then Ratcliffe/Ineos would be taking out more to get the funds to pay the Glazers which will be Ineos's debt but we all know we will be used to pay it
 

Raoul

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Na.

Qatar, UAE and Saudi Royals have spent the last 50 years in dick waving contests about who has the most and the best. The last 20 years it has been ever bigger yachts.

Now its football teams.

The one thing you can absolutely guarantee about a qatar onwer is that they will want to be ahead of city and newcastle.
I agree, but the only measure of success the Qataris will want in their competition with the Saudis and Emiratis, is the actual acquisition of United. What happens after will be of lesser consequence. We will of course probably win more than City and Newcastle, but they will be under little pressure on the Qataris to deliver on their rhetoric (infrastructure development, supporting the Women's team etc).
 
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AneRu

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True. I'm not really pro the Qatari ownership but people need to understand that things like gay rights wouldn't necessarily be an issue to most Arab dictators who lived a good portion of their lives in the west and probably enjoy a drink or two. Arab countries are largely conservative and are few decades away from human rights standards in the west. Most Asian and African countries are the same too. There's a lot to criticize them for, but they aren't as powerful on theses issues as you think they are.
Right here in Zimbabwe if you ran on a gay rights platform you would only be guaranteeing certain defeat. Its the same in most of Africa except for maybe SA and Kenya.

In some cases its most important to note that these countries are politically fragile without a strong man as leader because of centuries old tribal and sectarian rivalries. Gaddafi was a murderous piece of shite but if we are being honest the Lybia he ran was better that wreck they have right now.

Its not like in the West where you have institutions and politicians that respect constitutional norms. These things are alien to most and its a trade off between the things you'd deem vile and a complete breakdown where the real cnuts can emerge in the absence of that fear inspiring autocrat.
 

Rapsel

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The funny thing is, lets ask the Ajax fans the same question after 10 years of being bled dry by their owners, lack of leadership, not winning the league and having a handful of CL appearances.

Easy to make bold claims when everything is perfect.
Basically what happened at Ajax before Johan Cruijff decided to take off the gloves in 2010. Given the owners should be replaced by the dumbfecks on the board but further it was pretty much the same.
 

Raoul

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To be honest, I can't see the Glazers passing up a chance to sell control but retain a minority stake, as it would allow them to step out of the target zone from fans but still retain a financial stake if/when a SuperLeague happens.
 

JustinC00

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The Qataris are obviously going to message that they care about and will invest in all the issues various subsections of the fanbase care about as a means to assuage any anxieties, then once in charge slow roll change at their leisure and generally do the bare minimum to keep fans from revolting.
I mean that's what Ratcliffe/Ineos are doing yet they somehow already bottled it in their statement which has got people that were against Qatar saying "maybe Qatar would be better for the club'
 

Raoul

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I mean that's what Ratcliffe/Ineos are doing yet they somehow already bottled it in their statement which has got people that were against Qatar saying "maybe Qatar would be better for the club'
Yeah it was a terrible statement. The Qatari one was light years better imo.
 
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