@Adam-Utd @TheReligion @Ian Reus @Red in STL : I acknowledge that I sound unhinged, but I truly believe that the Glazers will hold on to us if they can: I recall pretty well-sourced reporting last year about how they like prestige associated with owning us. I also believe that we cannot be successful under the Glazers (both Ineos and Qatar would be much better owners). If we lose tomorrow's final, and go on a poor run of form in the lague, the pressure to sell will only increase. I think that trade-off is completely rational.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Qatar and Glazers playing chicken. Qatar will win because Glazers won't get a better offer ever.
Qatar will get this over the line eventually, no logical reason for the glazers to preside any longer over the asset they have virtually stripped bare, they are pretty much done, not taken in by the emotional attachment from Avram attending the game tomorrow, pure posturing, if there was any emotional attachment to Utd he would have looked to sell the club a long time ago.
If I am in their shoes I wouldn't sell for 4.5b either but raise it to 6-7b then maybe. An NBA without as much brand power sold for nearly that figure so they would be right to expect significantly more.
The thing with all the revenue generators you think will increase value is that you discount wage and transfer fee inflation, the players' wages will simply rise to match the rate at which tv revenue grows. Our financials won't support a +£6b valuation for a long time and as soon as all oil states buy up available clubs you'd be hardpressed to find anyone willing to throw billions at a football team.
It will be interesting to know the number of bidders who went in for the full buy out. If its the only two we know of then thats indicative of how difficult it will be, at any time, to generate valautions higher than these ones.
The looming regulations will also make it more difficult than it is now to sell to leveraged buyers or parties with state links. This will limit the pool of available buyers, they anticipated an auction which never came to fruition and soon there could be limiting regulations not only to their ambitions for a huge sale but to how they operate - what if the Football Regulator gives a fan representative veto power on key decisions or if they force a 50+1 ownership model?
Qatar will raise their offer and the glazers will likely accept.
First rule of negotiations, never accept the first offer.
Nothing to see here.
We will have two or three rounds of these kind of tactics, I believe there was a report the Qataris needed more time and a summer takeover was more likely from the offset.
Strap in.
Nothing to see here.
We will have two or three rounds of these kind of tactics, I believe there was a report the Qataris needed more time and a summer takeover was more likely from the offset.
Strap in.
First rule of negotiations is dont ring up reporters and tell them everything that's going on. The media are full of sht
I’m not bought into the idea Glazers might be changing their mind because we look like we might be hitting some “success”. Financially, it doesn’t make a huge difference if you win the league or come 4th. I vaguely remember it was a difference of about £20m. The key was to just ensure you get champions league football. £5bn is a heck of a lot of years of success and profitable commercial business to try and make it worthwhile staying. Yes they might be gambling on the value of the business going up in the future but that is unlikely to happen unless there’s some investment to help raise that value with some success on the pitch.
It’s still highly likely they will go. They were never going to say yes to any first offer. Nor were the Qataris expecting their first offer to be accepted.
It’s still highly likely they will go. They were never going to say yes to any first offer. Nor were the Qataris expecting their first offer to be accepted.
Alright, cool - so it's a private bid. Can we all be friends again, now?
The Glazers will sell the club because they have no other realistic financial option. Neither the remaining siblings or MU can handle another two billion of loans in today’s economical climate.
One likely reason the Glazers is sending out partly conflicting and irrational hints to the media is because they have discovered that there’s only one serious offer on the table. Without two public bidders that’s willing to close the deal it’s unlikely that there will be a significant increase in Qatars final offer.
From the Qataris perspective the best thing to do is to just sit still and await the sellers next move. As in most negotiation processes then silence and time is the buyers best friend.
One likely reason the Glazers is sending out partly conflicting and irrational hints to the media is because they have discovered that there’s only one serious offer on the table. Without two public bidders that’s willing to close the deal it’s unlikely that there will be a significant increase in Qatars final offer.
From the Qataris perspective the best thing to do is to just sit still and await the sellers next move. As in most negotiation processes then silence and time is the buyers best friend.
No, unfortunately, because the Glazer’s shares have 10x the votes of the rest of the shares, but when they sell them, they revert to ordinary shares. So, buying out the other Glazers would get you a higher percentage of the shares than Avram and Joel, but they could still out vote you, even if the other Shareholders voted with you.
This is nothing. Someone was hoping for bankruptcy and the relegation the other day.
How anyone can't see this is negotiating is beyond me.
No bidder was going to put their first offer at anything close to the $6bn the Glazers seem to want.
Especially as its been reported that they will go through two or three rounds of bidding
What we have to appreciate is, a lot of people have never needed to negotiate deals of any significance. Also, people aren't very good with money.
People will go off what they read/hear. And any kind of negativity will always be more reliable to them, as it's human nature to be more fearful and not get hurt.
You don’t go through this public process to then try and buy out the other shareholders unless you’re dumb. Essentially you’ve shown them exactly what their shares are worth and that people are willing to pay that price for them.
Borrowing is also extremely expensive now and as that’s only way Joel and Avram get hold of more shares so it’s a terrible time to be publicly inflating the price. Any further significant borrowing can’t go on the club, you either sell off assets or take on extremely risky debt that makes it more likely you’ll lose it all then make any extra money.
There’s a good chance a number of the siblings have wanted out and were hanging on or persuaded to hang on for the ESL. Darcy and Bryan are 2nd and 3rd largest shareholders, they’ve held onto those shares for exactly this scenario. I don’t see what caveat there is for them to hang on because there’s no guarantee you got offered as much in 1,2,3 years let alone significantly more. Likewise the smallest shareholders don’t have a huge incentive to hold on, they only get 11 and 12% or any extra so again hard to see their incentive to hang on for a relatively small upside that isn’t even guaranteed.
Another big thing is we have 2 huge commercial deals in the short term. Kit sponsor now and kit manufacturer in two years, if you don’t hit both of those out of the park it just decreases appeal. The Glazers staying is much higher risk the reward.
They are posturing which is exactly what would expect them to do. The biggest risk to them not selling is greed and in fighting not outside and investment. It’s conceivable they won’t be able to agree and this will just drag on indefinitely or be revisited very quickly.
Borrowing is also extremely expensive now and as that’s only way Joel and Avram get hold of more shares so it’s a terrible time to be publicly inflating the price. Any further significant borrowing can’t go on the club, you either sell off assets or take on extremely risky debt that makes it more likely you’ll lose it all then make any extra money.
There’s a good chance a number of the siblings have wanted out and were hanging on or persuaded to hang on for the ESL. Darcy and Bryan are 2nd and 3rd largest shareholders, they’ve held onto those shares for exactly this scenario. I don’t see what caveat there is for them to hang on because there’s no guarantee you got offered as much in 1,2,3 years let alone significantly more. Likewise the smallest shareholders don’t have a huge incentive to hold on, they only get 11 and 12% or any extra so again hard to see their incentive to hang on for a relatively small upside that isn’t even guaranteed.
Another big thing is we have 2 huge commercial deals in the short term. Kit sponsor now and kit manufacturer in two years, if you don’t hit both of those out of the park it just decreases appeal. The Glazers staying is much higher risk the reward.
They are posturing which is exactly what would expect them to do. The biggest risk to them not selling is greed and in fighting not outside and investment. It’s conceivable they won’t be able to agree and this will just drag on indefinitely or be revisited very quickly.
Yeah but this is the Glazers. Of course there’s going to be doubt they’ll actually go.
They never fecking go.
Really hope the anti Glazer chanting is loud, clear and constant tomorrow
They never fecking go.
Really hope the anti Glazer chanting is loud, clear and constant tomorrow
Yeah true, it's rule #1 of negotiating - let the other side know you're prepared to walk away if you don't get what you want. If you send a message that you'll sell at all costs then buyers will obviously low ball and wait it out.
Greedy motherfeckers. Up the bids? It's already over-valued at 5bn
This bollocks plus being nervous about tomorrow has made today a bit rubbish. Just want to get on with it all.
I feel sick saying it but I’d take it if it meant getting them cnuts out. It feels like this is such a pivotal moment for our club.
So you would take a moments glory over our long term future? I find this kind of thinking bizarre.
Im not saying that whoever takes over the club will be the right one but I’m pretty sure the Glazers aren’t and with them in charge and inevitably more debt to keep them there we’d be fecked.
I find the concept of hey let’s just mess up our season so the Glazer will leave as silly as, hey don’t worry we aren’t spending in January But we will be sold in the summer. So again where does this stop?
If they stay or leave it will have nothing to do with winning the League cup. So just back the team and let the the ownership run it’s course.
Spot on.
feck me really? I’m backing the team obviously it’s a hypothetical question.
Is £4.5b not enough? Good lord
Even if I want to doom, I just cannot even imagine how they engineer their stay.
They need huge money for renovation/new stadium but also to pay off their 4 other siblings that want out. Both of these should cost £4bn or even more. Unless the siblings are happy to stay in and dilute their ownership to fund the stadium rebuild, even £1bn more of debt would absolutely cripple us.
They need huge money for renovation/new stadium but also to pay off their 4 other siblings that want out. Both of these should cost £4bn or even more. Unless the siblings are happy to stay in and dilute their ownership to fund the stadium rebuild, even £1bn more of debt would absolutely cripple us.
Qatar will pay up and the Glazers will go home happy. Nowt wrong with a bit of brinkmanship.
Qatar needs to come in with silly money and force the Glazers out. Goldman Sachs will only allow Ratcliffe to go to a certain limit
Okay my bro.
This thread wouldn't be almost 700 pages long if "many people completely ignored the cons" of the Qatari bid.
God it will be a champagne day when these vultures finally leave. Qatar have already made the biggest bid ever for a sports team and they want to squeeze more out of them, I'd be surprised if they don't just tell them to get fecked.
The Glazers want their 6 gazillion dollars. They're going to cut off pieces of the club and mail them to the Qataris until they agree to cough up the dough.
INEOS are here to make money. I dont think theyd spend 6 bill. Qatar on the other hand... sees the club differently. Fecking greedy bastards milking the club till the very end.
I wonder if Sheikh Jassim or Ratcliffe will attend the match today? Face 2 face with Avram.
Alright, send Luca Brasi to me. I think we'll find a way to reason with this Mister...
Oops, wrong movie.
Majboos vs KFC. Only one winner.
Those parasites will only be satisfied until they’ve milked the club dry of every last penny. Of course they’re not satisfied with getting a huge return on their investment into the billions.
Absolute leeches. Like a fecking limpet clinging to a rock. Absolutely pathetic - cannot wait until they feck off for good.
Absolute leeches. Like a fecking limpet clinging to a rock. Absolutely pathetic - cannot wait until they feck off for good.
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