Club Sale | It’s done!

[Roboc7]

Yes, that sounds about right.

The premise is - has to be - that these investors are indeed very confident that United have a lot to go on in terms of growing the brand.

It seems odd enough to me at first glance.

But then again, unless the interest of Carlyle/Elliott (and possibly others) is just a smoke screen (and why would they agree to be used in this fashion by the Glazers?), they do appear to be interested in bidding...for something.

The brand is damaged by the Glazers and a lack of success, or things you can bank on improving. Has to be that they believe new revenue streams will open up which will grow their initial purchase without further investment.

They may also see opportunity to lend club money for new stadium or take ownership of it etc and make money there as well. But what it will boil down to is people who share the Glazers view that Utd are a cash cow that doesn’t need to be successful and value of the club will grow regardless.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

People are encouraging civil disobedience of fans without being prepared to do it themselves.

It's alright for you if local lad Dave Smith gets himself an ASBO and loses his job.

Ha, very funny.

 

[Plant0x84]

I swear this total goes up a few hundred million every time it gets mentioned.

I heard from my mates nans butlers cousin that they will invest Eleventy billion.

 

[Zaphod2319]

With Apple pushing to secure TV rights, several articles written in 2023 are predicting the Sky package is going up significantly after the 2025 season. I think this is why there is so much interest from equity firms. That is a pretty quick return on investment.

 

[croadyman]

Difference in motivation. The vultures have a singular motivation - profit. They wouldn't be here if they don't sense it. They rely on the Glazers' greed. Both Jassim and Ratcliffe have other additional goals, presumably, which would have them stick around with the hope the parasites will instead be sensible and relent in their crazy demands. This couldn't be more evident in the difference how each of them approached this sale.

When it comes to the Glazers, if I'm forced to choose between their greed and their sensibility, I know which one I will choose. The only chance Jassim and Ratcliffe have is to pay up. They won't.

Well if they won't pay up then may as well withdraw their offers and take club off the market

 

[Chesterlestreet]

And what would exactly justify this nearly blind confidence towards Joel and Avram?

It wouldn't be blind confidence.

They wouldn't do it unless they were confident that the brand can be grown significantly.

And they wouldn't do it without expecting significant returns, and quite likely shortly enough too.

And, lastly, they wouldn't leave it to Joel and Avram to run the shop with no consequences (as others have said too, they would be represented on the - new - board). This would also mean that Joel and Avram would be taking a risk, yes - very much so. One could argue that it's much safer for them to simply go along with their siblings and just sell the whole thing to the highest bidder.

 

[owlo]

I was reading that Joel has the most shares followed by Darsy .the other snake with the ponytail is 4th as I remember. So I really don't know why he keeps showing up at cup finals

Joel Bryan and Edward are active with the Tampa Bucks [mainly Bryran]

Our club is ponytails baby.

 

[croadyman]

Belief has totally evaporated with Ogden tweet

 

[Spark]

This is like living through the worst, most protracted and boring transfer saga ever. Only what's written is even more dubious than normal.

Based on the Glazers being total cnuts (rather than any particular news source around the takeover), I fully expected and still expect the Glazers to not sell and fundamentally remain in charge in some form.

However, if they've had offers of minority investment and that's truly what they want - as per the article - then why haven't they at least told the Sheikh and the Chemical man to do one? (Unlikely to be under NDA saying "you are not allowed to say you're not involved in the bidding process anymore").

Ogden's piece could easily be a negotiation tactic from the Glazers, the money grabbing cnuts that they are.

 

[DSG]

No, because Joel/Avram's shares will be worth 10x the others in terms of voting rights post-sale: once, say, Darcie sells her shares, they go from being class B to being class A.

35% (or whatever it is - Joel and Avram) is more than enough to keep control of the club.

Is there a reliable source that confirms the sold shares automatically convert from B class to A Class?

Every deal I’ve been involved with on the VC side is that they demand voting rights and a seat on the board. If they didn’t, their LPs would be furious…

 

[MancunianAngels]

If they stay, the Liverpool protest will be nothing. Bet the house on it

The Liverpool game was organised by fairly well known reds who kept the true nature of the protest known to only a few people. It took an almighty effort to pull it off.

This next protest will be organised by the 1958 lot who will talk the talk on Twitter but very few will walk the walk.

 

[7even]

Yep your pretty much spot on, however the VC will want two things, their own President/CEO on the board plus a say in how future investment will be made. Hypothetically the VC offers £4bn for the club but buy out the 4 siblings at £2Bn, this money only goes to the other 4 glazers not the club, so they would want something for this, no way they are doing that and then adding another £2bn for club investment which is what would be needed for stadium, training complex and squad improvements to own only A shares.

The more likely scenario is that they would gain 49% of new voting B shares with Joel and Avram retaining 51% in a restructure that would completely leave both remaining brothers wide open for a hostile takeover later on. Let’s be clear here, they would also expect the additional £1.5-2bn loan for restructure and stadium improvements to be repaid back all be it at reduce rate or interest free loan. This is structural refinancing of the club and more DEBT which may hopefully result in huge penalties to the Glazers that result in non repayments to the VC resulting in transfer of B share equity from Joel and Avram to the minority stake holder.

The club would be almost dual owned and the VC would want a significant return on their investment. If they invested £4Bn they would want back at least £6bn back in 7 years when all the investment has finished. So the two glazers left theoretically would be able to make £1.5/2bn each rather than £650,000- 750,000k now but neither are hands managers of successful businesses so this just won’t work.

Could they do it ? Yes they could but the problems will be monumental, on the plus side.
1. Only 2 Glazers will be left from the original 6
2. No dividends will be allowed by Vc as part of the agreement unless a serious profit is made after repaying the existing debt.
3. Transfers would be relatively unaffected and still driven by payer sales under FSP
4. Arnold and Murtourgh would stay who seem to have built up a good relationship with ETH
5. I’m pretty confident that a part of the agreement will be the introduction of a new CEO from the VC side who will be put in above Arnold and be more hands on.
6. The contract that The VC make with the two remaining Glazers will completely find them out, they could leave with very little if the debt gets out of control.

7. This maybe true and may force SJ to bid £6 billion now and that might still not enough with these parasites

Thanks for taking the time Woziak. Good post.



MUFC Q2 2023 Interim report


They will sell. 100% sure. Use common sense.

 

[mu4c_20le]

How do they get to that point though? you think we're close to winning leagues and Cl's? we could just as easily finish 7th next season as 4th and then what? suddenly it's a club without CL football (again) and the only 2 potential buyers (Qatar/Jim) are long gone

Call me crazy but yes, I do think we are closer now more than ever. Blind confidence? For the first time since SAF retired, we've hired a modern thinking manager on the rise, still hungry for success, and seems like a class act. Got rid of Woodward. Still a bit slow on the transfer market, but we backed ETH with nearly 200m missing out only on Frenkie because the player didn't want to go. From the beginning I never felt that we needed oil money to compete, Liverpool and Arsenal didn't. It's about building a team and instilling the philosophy. New ownership will be more about the stadium and facilities and running the club.

 

[DSG]

If the other 4 want out, can they not rewrite the company charter to allow whoever is buying their shares to have the same voting rights as the current holders, thus ensuring they get maximum dollar value for their shares with the added benefit of shafting the two rats who want to stay and maybe forcing them to compromise too?

Yes they can, and that may be a requirement to completing the deal for any of the VCs / institutional investors.

 

[owlo]

Is there a reliable source that confirms the sold shares automatically convert from B class to A Class?

Every deal I’ve been involved with on the VC side is that they demand voting rights and a seat on the board. If they didn’t, their LPs would be furious…

I've posted on this below. It's inconsequential if any shareholder reaches 15%.

You can sue for variance once you hold 15% of shares. And will nearly always win. In this case, you'd definitely win as the variance is prejudicice and controlling.

Activist shareholders and hostile takeovers wouldn't exist if the B shares thing was a golden bullet.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Is there a reliable source that confirms the sold shares automatically convert from B class to A Class?

Well, this is what happened when whatshisface...one of the non-Joel/Avram guys sold a chunk not too long ago.

 

[Plant0x84]

Belief has totally evaporated with Ogden tweet

Nah mate, loads of belief in here. Belief that the glazers are cnuts, and belief that the club is screwed.

 

[Telsim]

Well if they won't pay up then may as well withdraw their offers and take club off the market

Well, I don't think this is too far away. I believe Jassim will pull out of the process before the deadline and won't submit a third bid, with the statement that it has become obvious the owners have no intention to sell the club or something along those lines, made through Keegan of course. It would make for a better look than getting rejected.

 

[horsechoker]

Ha, very funny.

We can make these sorts of jokes because nobody who supports United lives in Manchester

 

[devilish]

It wouldn't be blind confidence.

They wouldn't do it unless they were confident that the brand can be grown significantly.

And they wouldn't do it without expecting significant returns, and quite likely shortly enough too.

And, lastly, they wouldn't leave it to Joel and Avram to run the shop with no consequences (as others have said too, they would be represented on the - new - board). This would also mean that Joel and Avram would be taking a risk, yes - very much so. One could argue that it's much safer for them to simply go along with their siblings and just sell the whole thing to the highest bidder.

United has been losing money for the past 3 years. Its revenue had plateaued, its salary bill had sky rocketed, its infrastructure is mush, its competing in a very competitive environment which is set to get worse once Newcastle and Chelsea had fount their footing and its main customers absolutely hate the owners. What makes you think that any HF would see it a good idea to trust these idiots with the helm? There's nothing in the past 17 years that suggest that they know what they are doing.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What makes you think that any HF would see it a good idea to trust these idiots with the helm?

Have I said that I think that?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

We can make these sorts of jokes because nobody who supports United lives in Manchester

only because Wumninator drove them all out of town. The poor feckers were all forced to move to Stockport.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

After initially being pissed off seeing the Ogden tweet, the more I think about it the more I just want all of this to be over as I think either outcome (VC investment or full buyout) will still be an improvement over what we've had. Glazers, even if the two cretins stick around, won't be allowed to suck money out of the club like they could before, and most likely will have to reinvest at a much higher level seeing as the goal to "increase the value of the club" at this point only comes with real footballing success again.

 

[Telsim]

Is there a reliable source that confirms the sold shares automatically convert from B class to A Class?

This keeps getting repeated, but the truth is we don't know the details around this, as it is not a uniform law across business. Different conditions may apply. It could be that shares change from B to A only if they are sold on the open market, which would make sense for obvious reasons. Or perhaps the Glazers don't trust each other and have this to prevent other siblings secretly selling class B shares to a third party. So, maybe B shares stay B if they are sold to a third party by unanimous vote.

Or this could be entirely wrong. We just don't know enough.

 

[MancunianAngels]

The Liverpool game was organised by fairly well known reds who kept the true nature of the protest known to only a few people. It took an almighty effort to pull it off.

This next protest will be organised by the 1958 lot who will talk the talk on Twitter but very few will walk the walk.

Also worth pointing out that many of those really active in that protest were arrested and most now have banning orders.

Unless of course the main aim is to just wave a few banners. In that case, crack on, just don't expect any results.

 

[devilish]

Difference in motivation. The vultures have a singular motivation - profit. They wouldn't be here if they don't sense it. They rely on the Glazers' greed. Both Jassim and Ratcliffe have other additional goals, presumably, which would have them stick around with the hope the parasites will instead be sensible and relent in their crazy demands. This couldn't be more evident in the difference how each of them approached this sale.

When it comes to the Glazers, if I'm forced to choose between their greed and their sensibility, I know which one I will choose. The only chance Jassim and Ratcliffe have is to pay up. They won't.

I love real estate. When I was 16 everyone in my neighbourhood dreamt of driving a car apart from myself. I was busy trying to find ways how to buy a small apartment for myself.

Whenever I invested in property I always made sure to try and turn it into a home. Thus I went for quality. Sure everyone has its own budget me included. However I always went for the best brands that I could afford knowing that whether I was renting in it, living in that property or selling it, such touch of quality would be appreciated.

Jassim/SJR are similar to owners buying a property which is meant to be their home. Thus they'll invest a lot in it. Similar to myself they won't go ridiculous on it either because money don't grow on trees. However its their home so they will invest that little extra to make it as effective and as comfortable to them as possible. Hedge funds are like the flipping houses guys on TV. Its a business for them thus every penny spent will be taken in consideration as an extra expense will eat into their profit.

Thus is why I believe that Jassim/SJR bid is more generous to that of an Hedge fund.

 

[ForeverRed1]

If Qatar/Jim don’t get us, will they go for another premier league club?

 

[Infra-red]

Is there a reliable source that confirms the sold shares automatically convert from B class to A Class?

Every deal I’ve been involved with on the VC side is that they demand voting rights and a seat on the board. If they didn’t, their LPs would be furious…

The IPO SEC filing:

"Each Class A ordinary share is entitled to one vote per share and is not convertible into any other shares of our capital stock. Each Class B ordinary share is entitled to 10 votes per share and is convertible into one Class A ordinary share at any time. In addition, our Class B ordinary shares will automatically convert into shares of our Class A ordinary shares upon certain transfers and other events, including upon the date when holders of all Class B ordinary shares cease to hold Class B ordinary shares representing, in the aggregate, at least 10% of the total number of Class A and Class B ordinary shares outstanding. For special resolutions (which are required for certain important matters including mergers and changes to our governing documents), which require the vote of two-thirds of the votes cast, at any time that Class B ordinary shares remain outstanding, the voting power permitted to be exercised by the holders of the Class B ordinary shares will be weighted such that the Class B ordinary shares shall represent, in the aggregate, 67% of the voting power of all shareholders."

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912008161/a2210672z424b4.htm

 

[croadyman]

Nah mate, loads of belief in here. Belief that the glazers are cnuts, and belief that the club is screwed.

Oh yeah the club is screwed and rightfully Erik won't stick around for long under these leeches

 

[croadyman]

If Qatar/Jim don’t get us, will they go for another premier league club?

Yeah

Ratcliffe - Spurs
Jassim - our worst nightmare

 

[Spoony]

Still think it's just posturing. Someone will pay up and the Glazers will feck off home.

 

[devilish]

Yeah

Ratcliffe - Spurs
Jassim - our worst nightmare

TBF after bottling the United and Chelsea bid, Ratcliffe buying Spurs would be like a match from heaven.

 

[Infra-red]

Still think it's just posturing. Someone will pay up and the Glazers will feck off home.

I just wish they would move a bit quicker. It feels like this whole process is frozen.

 

[croadyman]

Still think it's just posturing. Someone will pay up and the Glazers will feck off home.

Nah I don't see it now

 

[devilish]

Still think it's just posturing. Someone will pay up and the Glazers will feck off home.

exactly. Its the typical 'you better hurry up in placing a bid cause there are 2 other people interested in the property' line used by property sellers to try and force the prospective buyer to place a generous bid.

 

[devilish]

Nah I don't see it now

why?

I think that Jassim will up his bid and the Glazers will meet him in the middle.

 

[devilish]

Have I said that I think that?

that what buying a minority stake would entail. The Glazers would still control the club's destiny.

 

[Spoony]

I just wish they would move a bit quicker. It feels like this whole process is frozen.

Whether or not it's just coincidence but Jacobs was saying it's a straight fight between Jassim and Ratcliffe with Jassim plus mates confident they will outbid anyone...and Elliot virtually out of the picture. Since then we've been linked to a few more equity groups. Hmmm.... He said Qatar are worried they’re list bidding against themselves. But yeah it's tedious now.

 

[Ayoba]

OH. Now I cry

 

[Spoony]

exactly. Its the typical 'you better hurry up in placing a bid cause there are 2 other people interested in the property' line used by property sellers to try and force the prospective buyer to place a generous bid.

Yeah, they're not daft. Money in the bank versus a chance they mighty not see much more upside in the price of United..coupled with the fact they'd have to invest far more in the infrastructure. Football is hardly American football where all franchises are guaranteed to be in all comps. Nor can they blackmail the local authority to pay for a new stadium or else they move elsewhere.